MoloLamken Forum

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know anything about MoloLamken? Does it pay market? What sort of hours do its associates bill? How long is the partnership path? And is there any data about its financial health (RPL, PPEP, etc.)?

[Sackboy]

From what I understand, ML is a prestigious lit boutique that lands a lot of magna/order of the coif T13 grades with court of appeals clerkships. Partnership is an 8 year track, and I'm assuming it's also a two-tiered partnership (but I could be wrong). I imagine RPL/PPEP is also very high ($1M+/$1.5M+). I believe salary is market and bonuses are above market. As with any similar shop, hours are tough. It is not a lifestyle firm.

[Elston Gunn]

Agree with the above, though I’d be surprised if the PEP is as low as $1.5m. Fwiw, one of my (very well credentialed) friends works at ML and they seem quite happy. It’s the type of place where associates get a good amount of substantive experience and partnership is realistic if you want it.

[Anonymous User]

Agree with the above, though I’d be surprised if the PEP is as low as $1.5m. Fwiw, one of my (very well credentialed) friends works at ML and they seem quite happy. It’s the type of place where associates get a good amount of substantive experience and partnership is realistic if you want it.

I think PEP is much higher than 1.5 but that's because Molo and Lamken are the only equity partners. Anon bc was told this in interview process.

[Sackboy]

I think PEP is much higher than 1.5 but that's because Molo and Lamken are the only equity partners. Anon bc was told this in interview process.

Very interesting and bizarre. They must compensate a lot of their partners like equity partners, even if they are non-equity; otherwise, I don't know how they'd retain all their top flight talent that could head off to other lit boutiques or biglaw and get equity.

[Anonymous User]

My impression is that it's a top flight litigation boutique that pays above market and has a great mix of work (with trial and appellate, lots of IP, some white collar, etc.). I put them on the same tier as the best, e.g., Susman, Kellogg, etc., but they're smaller, so maybe more like Kaplan or Wilkinson. They obviously recruit really well-credentialed lawyers, I think everyone there has a CoA clerkship, and there are a ton of SCOTUS clerks. I also get the impression that the folks there are happy and well-adjusted, but also that they work pretty hard. Each office is pretty small--I think it's like 45 lawyers with three offices--and I don't think they hire more than a couple lawyers a year for each office.

[ambrau90]

As with any similar shop, hours are tough. It is not a lifestyle firm.

How do hours compare to Susman and Kellogg? I got the general impression that Molo was less than Susman though that's not based on any hard information.

[Anonymous User]

As with any similar shop, hours are tough. It is not a lifestyle firm.

How do hours compare to Susman and Kellogg? I got the general impression that Molo was less than Susman though that's not based on any hard information.

OP here. Thanks for the responses. I'm also curious about this. 2000? 2500? 3000?

[Sackboy]

OP here. Thanks for the responses. I'm also curious about this. 2000? 2500? 3000?

In general, I'd say biglaw numbers are extremely inflated on this board. No firm, except perhaps Wachtell, gets its associates remotely close to 2,500 or 3,000 hours, because those a truly insane numbers. You'll hear from time to time people on here on pace to bill 2,500-3,000, but they are rare cases and usually (1) in bankruptcy/M&A or (2) don't know how to turn down work. First years at some big law shops now bill close to $600/hr. 3000 hours would put you at $1.8M in revenue, which is higher than the RPL of every firm except Wachtell, which has an unusual business model, and ties with S&C. If you're doing the average RPL of the highest RPL normal biglaw firm as a 1st year (i.e. lowest billing rate), things don't add up. More realistically, most biglaw shops get probably 80% of associates within the 1800-2200 range. The same is going to be true of ML and other lit boutiques, but their range probably drifts up a bit and creates something like a 1900-2300 range since they run leaner and lit probably, on average, provides for much more consistent hours and work streams.

[Anonymous User]

Agree with Sackboy on much of the above. It's also important to remember that a lot of times when people in real life or this site say they are "annualizing" or "on pace" for a 2500/3000 hour year they aren't actually hitting that number at the end of the year. It is not on common to have a four month stretch where you are "on pace" for 3000 hours only to end up at 2200 or something when all is said and done.

That being said, one thing to consider is that MoloLamken is going to have more trials than a big law firm (or at least comparatively more given the smaller size and staffing) and any year in which you have a trial is probably going to look more like a 2500 hour year than a 2000 hour year. I wouldn't be surprised if most associates at Molo do have a 2500 hour year thrown in over any given three/four year period.

[xiaoguami]

OP here. Thanks for the responses. I'm also curious about this. 2000? 2500? 3000?

In general, I'd say biglaw numbers are extremely inflated on this board. No firm, except perhaps Wachtell, gets its associates remotely close to 2,500 or 3,000 hours, because those a truly insane numbers. You'll hear from time to time people on here on pace to bill 2,500-3,000, but they are rare cases and usually (1) in bankruptcy/M&A or (2) don't know how to turn down work. First years at some big law shops now bill close to $600/hr. 3000 hours would put you at $1.8M in revenue, which is higher than the RPL of every firm except Wachtell, which has an unusual business model, and ties with S&C. If you're doing the average RPL of the highest RPL normal biglaw firm as a 1st year (i.e. lowest billing rate), things don't add up. More realistically, most biglaw shops get probably 80% of associates within the 1800-2200 range. The same is going to be true of ML and other lit boutiques, but their range probably drifts up a bit and creates something like a 1900-2300 range since they run leaner and lit probably, on average, provides for much more consistent hours and work streams.

YES. The average hours of biglaw attorneys I know IRL vs those I see on this board are wildly different. There's a huge selection effect, people who bill a lot will talk about it more online.

[uygiugiyugyugk]

on track for 4600 hours this year personally.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Thanks for the responses. I'm also curious about this. 2000? 2500? 3000?

In general, I'd say biglaw numbers are extremely inflated on this board. No firm, except perhaps Wachtell, gets its associates remotely close to 2,500 or 3,000 hours, because those a truly insane numbers. You'll hear from time to time people on here on pace to bill 2,500-3,000, but they are rare cases and usually (1) in bankruptcy/M&A or (2) don't know how to turn down work. First years at some big law shops now bill close to $600/hr. 3000 hours would put you at $1.8M in revenue, which is higher than the RPL of every firm except Wachtell, which has an unusual business model, and ties with S&C. If you're doing the average RPL of the highest RPL normal biglaw firm as a 1st year (i.e. lowest billing rate), things don't add up. More realistically, most biglaw shops get probably 80% of associates within the 1800-2200 range. The same is going to be true of ML and other lit boutiques, but their range probably drifts up a bit and creates something like a 1900-2300 range since they run leaner and lit probably, on average, provides for much more consistent hours and work streams.

Really depends on the firm. This is a valid point generally but at lit firms like Quinn, Susman, Boies schiller and certain transactional groups at Davis Polk, S&c, ect., numbers get really big. I billed 2600 in 2019 and 2700 in 2020. I left to a less insane environment after my 2020 hours nearly broke me as a human being, and billed less than 2100 this year. My colleagues at my old firm were still regularly over 2500 at year end.

[Sackboy]

Really depends on the firm. This is a valid point generally but at lit firms like Quinn, Susman, Boies schiller and certain transactional groups at Davis Polk, S&c, ect., numbers get really big. I billed 2600 in 2019 and 2700 in 2020. I left to a less insane environment after my 2020 hours nearly broke me as a human being, and billed less than 2100 this year. My colleagues at my old firm were still regularly over 2500 at year end.

This is still the selection effect. You're talking about your high hours and so are other high hour folks. I worked at a DPW/S&C peer, and it was the exact same thing. However, I also saw the hours of our group, and we had a lot of folks billing 1600-1800 who just didn't talk about it, because it's not "cool" to talk about how little you're billing. This is like the "lack of sleep" competition teenagers and college students play. "I slept 2 hours last night, haha" "well, I didn't even sleep at all!" The kid who sleeps 8 hours a day isn't like "well, I got a nice nights sleep." That's not how the social jockeying works in that situation or at firms. The average and typical hours at elite firms are far lower than people talk about. Now, COVID elevated everyone's hours, but it's generally the truth. Those "low" billers aren't going to make partner, but who cares, because nobody is really making partner anyway.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know why MoloLamken is suddenly promoting testimonials from its current employees on Linkedin? Seems like targeted advertising for law clerks. Sort of surprised to see they feel the need to advertise, given their rep.

[The Lsat Airbender]

Anyone know why MoloLamken is suddenly promoting testimonials from its current employees on Linkedin? Seems like targeted advertising for law clerks. Sort of surprised to see they feel the need to advertise, given their rep.

I'm not sure you can read into it like that. Marketing/recruiting departments often are just trying to spend their budget, especially given COVID's impact on traditional processes.

[Anonymous User]

MoloLamken's website says they have no summer program, but some folks on LinkedIn have a summer associateship listed. Is it a case-by-case sort of thing, or did the firm formerly have a program?

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know what they offer in terms of clerkship bonuses?

[nealric]

on track for 4600 hours this year personally.

On track for 8,760 hours this year personally.

[Anonymous User]

I interviewed with them for a post-clerkship position, and every single person I spoke with came across as hostile, unpleasant, and weird.

The least hostile, unpleasant, and weird one ended up clerking for SCOTUS. I imagine she deserved it, if only because her personality was closest to normal.

[Anonymous User]

I interviewed with them for a post-clerkship position, and every single person I spoke with came across as hostile, unpleasant, and weird.

The least hostile, unpleasant, and weird one ended up clerking for SCOTUS. I imagine she deserved it, if only because her personality was closest to normal.

Did you interview with the other big-name boutiques (e.g. Susman, Kellog, Bartlit)? If so, what did you think of them?

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know anything about MoloLamken? Does it pay market? What sort of hours do its associates bill? How long is the partnership path? And is there any data about its financial health (RPL, PPEP, etc.)?

IIRC, they're top rated for securities lit and appellate, not so much for general commercial lit, but the boutiques typically aren't best at that anyway. Lots of reasons for that, but not necessary to inundate OP with info. That said, many of its lawyers (Steven Molo in particular) are absolute all-stars. It's the typical give and take you get with choosing between lit boutiques and the best biglaw firms

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know anything about MoloLamken? Does it pay market? What sort of hours do its associates bill? How long is the partnership path? And is there any data about its financial health (RPL, PPEP, etc.)?

IIRC, they're top rated for securities lit and appellate, not so much for general commercial lit, but the boutiques typically aren't best at that anyway. Lots of reasons for that, but not necessary to inundate OP with info. That said, many of its lawyers (Steven Molo in particular) are absolute all-stars. It's the typical give and take you get with choosing between lit boutiques and the best biglaw firms

Could you give that extra info? It would be greatly appreciated. I'm trying to decide on firms as my clerkship winds down and right now, information is helpful.

[Anonymous User]

I interviewed with them for a post-clerkship position, and every single person I spoke with came across as hostile, unpleasant, and weird.

The least hostile, unpleasant, and weird one ended up clerking for SCOTUS. I imagine she deserved it, if only because her personality was closest to normal.

I also interviewed for post-clerkship, and I didn’t find the people unpleasant. There was an expectation to interview with every lawyer in the firm, which might have made sense in the early days, but by the time I interviewed it was way overkill. Also, after doing all those interviews, they never gave me an answer one way or the other. That was bad.

[Anonymous User]

I interviewed with them for a post-clerkship position, and every single person I spoke with came across as hostile, unpleasant, and weird.

The least hostile, unpleasant, and weird one ended up clerking for SCOTUS. I imagine she deserved it, if only because her personality was closest to normal.

I also interviewed for post-clerkship, and I didn’t find the people unpleasant. There was an expectation to interview with every lawyer in the firm, which might have made sense in the early days, but by the time I interviewed it was way overkill. Also, after doing all those interviews, they never gave me an answer one way or the other. That was bad.

Also interviewed post-clerkship and it was not a great experience. Marathon zoom day and a couple attorneys were either late or no-shows. They also make a big deal about the interviews being substantive and rigorous (they send a big memo about it) but they were actually behavioral and light. Didn’t really get a chance to show my legal acumen like they said they were looking for and when I tried to steer it in a substantive direction, the interviewers didn’t engage. [edit] I have conducted many dozens of interviews at firms, clerkships, and prelaw work experience. The batch I had were not good interviewers.