Will it always be like this now? Forum

[Anonymous User]

First year corporate associate in a niche securities practice group over here. It’s been a miserable couple of months over here with totally eroded work-life boundaries, clients calling at all hours with demands, 200+ billing months, etc. What’s the prediction of what the market and practice is going to look like going into the future?

I’m worried that the division between work and life will never return now that clients are accustomed to making urgent demands whenever they want. If the capacity for remote work is here to stay, what keeps client demands from going back to pre-pandemic levels? And the deals have gotten so crazy and twisted and with an on-fire market lately...

The bonuses are definitely an acknowledgement that this is bad. But do you think we’re ever going to see any quality of life return to biglaw? Or are these changes in client relations/the market industry adjustments that are here to stay? Thoughts?

[Anonymous User]

Clients are not doing this solely bc of WFH. It’s just very very busy right now (which is a good thing but tough) and there are not enough lawyers trained in big law practices. Don’t forget - clients are equally busy.

The reality is WFH may be the only thing keeping us afloat with the amount of work. Being able to be near family, living room relaxation and no commute is a game changer. As a first year, if/when you are forced back to the office you will see it all more clear.

[avenuem]

relatedly, why do dumb partners think that when we're working this hard we should carry the added burden of traveling to and from the office, having to run out for food or run down stairs for food, etc.? if we're going to work like dogs at least let us do it from our home, where we can save some time. fuck I can't wait to be partner and fix this.

edit: actually, i wouldnt fix it. if i have to suffer so do all the other associates who follow

[Anonymous User]

First year corporate associate in a niche securities practice group over here. It’s been a miserable couple of months over here with totally eroded work-life boundaries, clients calling at all hours with demands, 200+ billing months, etc. What’s the prediction of what the market and practice is going to look like going into the future?

I’m worried that the division between work and life will never return now that clients are accustomed to making urgent demands whenever they want. If the capacity for remote work is here to stay, what keeps client demands from going back to pre-pandemic levels? And the deals have gotten so crazy and twisted and with an on-fire market lately...

The bonuses are definitely an acknowledgement that this is bad. But do you think we’re ever going to see any quality of life return to biglaw? Or are these changes in client relations/the market industry adjustments that are here to stay? Thoughts?

I think COVID has made the shitty times more sustained because (1) partners are no-lifing work even more than ever since they're also cooped up and (2) no clients like banks going on vacation in August to give us slow periods, but this is just how the shitty times roll in biglaw. Lack of any real quality of life/work-life boundaries, clients with insane demands, 200+ hours months can be a norm depending on your group and firm.

Also, and kinda scary, I think things will only get worse as the economy ramps up further and we move towards post-COVID life under the biden administration, but that's just my noob perspective as another corp junior.

Also, yea, clients are dying as well like the other anon said. That goldman sachs report.

[Anonymous User]

I’m worried that the division between work and life will never return now that clients are accustomed to making urgent demands whenever they want.

Yeah, it’s the Covid work from home situation that causes clients to make urgent demands whenever they want, not the entire model of big law where partners charge exorbitant rates so that clients can consummate lucrative transactions and in exchange for those exorbitant rates the associates have to jump at a moment’s notice to keep those deals flowing. Prior to Covid, big law was known for its well defined division between work and life.

[NoLongerALurker]

First year corporate associate in a niche securities practice group over here. It’s been a miserable couple of months over here with totally eroded work-life boundaries, clients calling at all hours with demands, 200+ billing months, etc. What’s the prediction of what the market and practice is going to look like going into the future?

I’m worried that the division between work and life will never return now that clients are accustomed to making urgent demands whenever they want. If the capacity for remote work is here to stay, what keeps client demands from going back to pre-pandemic levels? And the deals have gotten so crazy and twisted and with an on-fire market lately...

The bonuses are definitely an acknowledgement that this is bad. But do you think we’re ever going to see any quality of life return to biglaw? Or are these changes in client relations/the market industry adjustments that are here to stay? Thoughts?

In my experience the boundaries are equally blurred, except now when I carve out 20 min I can do so at home rather than an office cafeteria. It’s way better now tbh — like, way way way better. I hope it’s like this forever rather than going back to the old ways.

[Anonymous User]

At this point I just need my firm to start throwing me a few bucks for dinner.

[Prudent_Jurist]

Anyone’s firms talking about reducing square footage and having office space available for reservation?

Curious to see if firms will move to different physical arrangements after COVID, though I reckon everything’s still up in the air at present.

[Anonymous User]

Clients themselves are also often stuck at home, and more importantly, they don’t have all those other things they did during their days that keep them busy (travel, in-person meetings, events outside work, etc)

This job always has generally sucked but I agree that it has kicked into a whole new gear the last year. I hear the same complaints all the way up from jr associate through partners.

[Anonymous User]

Anybody else been giving a lot more thought to what their target biglaw-leaving $$ nest egg might be than they were 6 months ago?

I’m not saying I’m going to leave soon, and those bonuses are accomplishing their intended goal at least for me. But I am saying that I’m starting to think about where the end might be, and how to know when I’m there.

[Anonymous User]

I’m worried that the division between work and life will never return now that clients are accustomed to making urgent demands whenever they want.

Yeah, it’s the Covid work from home situation that causes clients to make urgent demands whenever they want, not the entire model of big law where partners charge exorbitant rates so that clients can consummate lucrative transactions and in exchange for those exorbitant rates the associates have to jump at a moment’s notice to keep those deals flowing. Prior to Covid, big law was known for its well defined division between work and life.

This was my reaction to some degree, but I also think that there’s been a genuine change in how people perceive work/life boundaries. Although it wasn’t uncommon for me to have to work weekends pre-COVID, there’s such a casual approach it now, as if Saturday and Sunday are just normal workdays. I sent something non-urgent to a partner at 2 PM yesterday and he just called me on my cell phone to discuss it as if it was 11 AM on a Tuesday. No apology, no half-assed attempt at explaining why this non-urgent project needs to be discussed right now. Drives me out of my mind. Maybe this was common for some people pre-COVID, but for me it’s definitely been an unwelcome turn for the worse.

[Anonymous User]

I’m worried that the division between work and life will never return now that clients are accustomed to making urgent demands whenever they want.

Yeah, it’s the Covid work from home situation that causes clients to make urgent demands whenever they want, not the entire model of big law where partners charge exorbitant rates so that clients can consummate lucrative transactions and in exchange for those exorbitant rates the associates have to jump at a moment’s notice to keep those deals flowing. Prior to Covid, big law was known for its well defined division between work and life.

This was my reaction to some degree, but I also think that there’s been a genuine change in how people perceive work/life boundaries. Although it wasn’t uncommon for me to have to work weekends pre-COVID, there’s such a casual approach it now, as if Saturday and Sunday are just normal workdays. I sent something non-urgent to a partner at 2 PM yesterday and he just called me on my cell phone to discuss it as if it was 11 AM on a Tuesday. No apology, no half-assed attempt at explaining why this non-urgent project needs to be discussed right now. Drives me out of my mind. Maybe this was common for some people pre-COVID, but for me it’s definitely been an unwelcome turn for the worse.

True, although if a partner calls me on a weekend without a good reason (that I know about in advance, i.e., we exchanged emails about it), I'm not answering. Try that next time.

[jotarokujo]

weekend and evening work definitely seems more common now. on balance, COVID time might be better for some but for others it may not be because they were used to doing things on the weekend and evening

[Anonymous User]

This was my reaction to some degree, but I also think that there’s been a genuine change in how people perceive work/life boundaries. Although it wasn’t uncommon for me to have to work weekends pre-COVID, there’s such a casual approach it now, as if Saturday and Sunday are just normal workdays. I sent something non-urgent to a partner at 2 PM yesterday and he just called me on my cell phone to discuss it as if it was 11 AM on a Tuesday. No apology, no half-assed attempt at explaining why this non-urgent project needs to be discussed right now. Drives me out of my mind. Maybe this was common for some people pre-COVID, but for me it’s definitely been an unwelcome turn for the worse.

True, although if a partner calls me on a weekend without a good reason (that I know about in advance, i.e., we exchanged emails about it), I'm not answering. Try that next time.

I have. It results in immediate follow-up emails asking when I can speak. At best I can delay it a few hours, but then it ruins whatever non-work thing I’m doing because I just sit there getting increasingly angry about the situation and dreading whatever work is going to result from the call.