Georgetown Tax LLM (full scholarship) vs. NYU Tax LLM ($45,000 scholarship) Forum

[StellaG2020]

First time poster here. I am currently in a dilemma. I have been accepted by both NYU and Georgetown for their tax LLM program. For NYU I got a $45,000 scholarship (putting tuition at $22,000) and for GT I was offered a 100% scholarship for free tuition. I was unsure what to do in this circumstance. From my understanding NYU is much better program and has a higher placement for biglaw and law firms which is my overall goal post-graduation. Is going to NYU worth the extra money? I also was unsure if I should attempt to renegotiate NYU's scholarship as they stated it was non-negotiable and from my understanding they usually do not give large scholarships.

[CanadianWolf]

"Non-Negotiable" seems clear to me.

Georgetown tax llm tuition free versus NYU tax llm at $22,000 for tuition.

What are your career goals ?

NYU gives one a better chance for biglaw.

Georgetown tax llm is great for federal government (IRS & Treasury Dept.) positions as well as for Big 4 accounting firms in addition to some biglaw firms.

Both schools--NYU & Georgetown--participate in TIP in early March each year for job interviews.

[CanadianWolf]

Are you willing to share your credentials that resulted in such outstanding scholarship awards ?

[Anonymous User]

Anon because I mention my involvement in my employer's hiring of tax llm candidates.

The difference between NYU and Georgetown is overstated as a general matter. I would think about the choice in terms of geography and practice specialty.

NYU is better for NYC, and it just so happens a ton of biglaw spots are in NYC. Off the top of my head I would say the vast majority law firm openings for Tax LLM students this past year in M&A tax/ general tax were in NYC. There were a couple in TX, a few in CA, and a couple in DC. So, yeah, if you are gunning for a NYC big firm in M&A/ transactional work, go with NYU. It's worth the extra 22k.

If you are shooting for a market outside of NYC, I'd say Georgetown + course selections / specialty certificate in the relevant specialty is going to set you up basically the same as going to NYU.

For example, many (if not most) law firm openings at TIP were in specialties, particularly exec comp & employee benefits. Positions for these were all over geographically, but concentrated in big coastal cities like LA, SF, NYC, and DC. If you went to Georgetown and got the employee benefits certificate, I'd find it hard to believe you'd be at a disadvantage interviewing against NYU students.

There was also a number of private client / trusts & estates openings at TIP, and this was pretty geographically spread out. For those types of positions, both Georgetown or NYU will get you an interview, but market ties, course selection, interview skills and the rest of your resume are going to be real difference makers, not the difference between NYU and Georgetown. For instance, there are a ton of jobs in FL for private client/ T&E and I think you'd need FL ties to get a real look from those firms, regardless of whether you attend Georgetown or NYU.

I'd say the same about SALT. Georgetown + SALT courses/ certificate is going to be the same as NYU.

Also, if you want to be in DC, Georgetown is a better choice in my opinion, mainly because of the networking opportunities. You will take classes with adjuncts who are high level practitioners around DC (law firms, Big 4 WNT, IRS, Treasury, etc.), have access to externships with DC employers, and gain a reason for the "why DC?" question you will get when you go to interview for DC jobs. Maybe these advantages are nonexistent if schools are remote another year for covid; time will tell.

I've personally reviewed resumes of tax LLM students for my DC-based employer and I haven't given someone a bump for going to NYU over Georgetown. Your JD institution, JD grades, demonstrated long-time interest and success in tax, LLM grades, and interview skills matter WAY MORE than NYU vs. Georgetown, at least in my opinion. It's true that in general, students that go to the NYU program are better candidates because they generally went to better JD programs, had better JD grades, and took more tax classes. But that doesn't mean NYU is the thing making the difference - it's just a good data in good data out phenomenon.

[Anonymous User]

Anon because I mention my involvement in my employer's hiring of tax llm candidates.

The difference between NYU and Georgetown is overstated as a general matter. I would think about the choice in terms of geography and practice specialty.

NYU is better for NYC, and it just so happens a ton of biglaw spots are in NYC. Off the top of my head I would say the vast majority law firm openings for Tax LLM students this past year in M&A tax/ general tax were in NYC. There were a couple in TX, a few in CA, and a couple in DC. So, yeah, if you are gunning for a NYC big firm in M&A/ transactional work, go with NYU. It's worth the extra 22k.

If you are shooting for a market outside of NYC, I'd say Georgetown + course selections / specialty certificate in the relevant specialty is going to set you up basically the same as going to NYU.

For example, many (if not most) law firm openings at TIP were in specialties, particularly exec comp & employee benefits. Positions for these were all over geographically, but concentrated in big coastal cities like LA, SF, NYC, and DC. If you went to Georgetown and got the employee benefits certificate, I'd find it hard to believe you'd be at a disadvantage interviewing against NYU students.

There was also a number of private client / trusts & estates openings at TIP, and this was pretty geographically spread out. For those types of positions, both Georgetown or NYU will get you an interview, but market ties, course selection, interview skills and the rest of your resume are going to be real difference makers, not the difference between NYU and Georgetown. For instance, there are a ton of jobs in FL for private client/ T&E and I think you'd need FL ties to get a real look from those firms, regardless of whether you attend Georgetown or NYU.

I'd say the same about SALT. Georgetown + SALT courses/ certificate is going to be the same as NYU.

Also, if you want to be in DC, Georgetown is a better choice in my opinion, mainly because of the networking opportunities. You will take classes with adjuncts who are high level practitioners around DC (law firms, Big 4 WNT, IRS, Treasury, etc.), have access to externships with DC employers, and gain a reason for the "why DC?" question you will get when you go to interview for DC jobs. Maybe these advantages are nonexistent if schools are remote another year for covid; time will tell.

I've personally reviewed resumes of tax LLM students for my DC-based employer and I haven't given someone a bump for going to NYU over Georgetown. Your JD institution, JD grades, demonstrated long-time interest and success in tax, LLM grades, and interview skills matter WAY MORE than NYU vs. Georgetown, at least in my opinion. It's true that in general, students that go to the NYU program are better candidates because they generally went to better JD programs, had better JD grades, and took more tax classes. But that doesn't mean NYU is the thing making the difference - it's just a good data in good data out phenomenon.

In your view, NYU and Gtown with proper course selection will carry the same weight in non-nyc markets? I've heard and seen the opposite, that outside of DC, NYU will carry a lot more weight. I would also say those FL private client/ T&E firms still prefer NYU/Gtown grads over UF grads, even though those UF students have FL ties. Just my observation so perhaps I am wrong. I still don't think you can go wrong between NYU and Gtown as they will pull more weight than any other program regardless of location.

[CanadianWolf]

NYU & Georgetown dominate the tax practitioner market simply due to the size & location of the schools.

A program such as Northwestern's tax llm program will never dominate any market outside of the Midwest because it only enrolls about 40 full time students. Excellent program.

University of Florida tax llm program produces excellent graduates as judged by their work product. Great research & writing skills. However, over the past few years, UFlorida is placing a much greater emphasis on expanding programs for international students.

The externship & internship opportunities for Georgetown tax llm students are arguably the best in the country (IRS & Treasury Dept., for example).

While overall tax llm GPA is important, course selection, grades in specific courses of interest to potential employer, prior tax work experience, relationships developed during externships or with tax practitioner tax professors, & location can all be important factors in the hiring process. Easier for NYC employers to recruit from NYU, for example.

For NYC biglaw, the easy answer is NYU at $22,000.

P.S. Agree with the poster who stated that Georgetown specialty certificates are meaningful if related to employer needs, although actual work experience in a specific specialty area is more highly valued.

[StellaG2020]

Are you willing to share your credentials that resulted in such outstanding scholarship awards ?

TT law school, top 5% and have a CPA background prior to school. Have also done at least two internships involving tax law (one gov agency one private firm) and taken 3 or 4 tax classes receiving A's.

[StellaG2020]

Anon because I mention my involvement in my employer's hiring of tax llm candidates.

The difference between NYU and Georgetown is overstated as a general matter. I would think about the choice in terms of geography and practice specialty.

NYU is better for NYC, and it just so happens a ton of biglaw spots are in NYC. Off the top of my head I would say the vast majority law firm openings for Tax LLM students this past year in M&A tax/ general tax were in NYC. There were a couple in TX, a few in CA, and a couple in DC. So, yeah, if you are gunning for a NYC big firm in M&A/ transactional work, go with NYU. It's worth the extra 22k.

If you are shooting for a market outside of NYC, I'd say Georgetown + course selections / specialty certificate in the relevant specialty is going to set you up basically the same as going to NYU.

For example, many (if not most) law firm openings at TIP were in specialties, particularly exec comp & employee benefits. Positions for these were all over geographically, but concentrated in big coastal cities like LA, SF, NYC, and DC. If you went to Georgetown and got the employee benefits certificate, I'd find it hard to believe you'd be at a disadvantage interviewing against NYU students.

There was also a number of private client / trusts & estates openings at TIP, and this was pretty geographically spread out. For those types of positions, both Georgetown or NYU will get you an interview, but market ties, course selection, interview skills and the rest of your resume are going to be real difference makers, not the difference between NYU and Georgetown. For instance, there are a ton of jobs in FL for private client/ T&E and I think you'd need FL ties to get a real look from those firms, regardless of whether you attend Georgetown or NYU.

I'd say the same about SALT. Georgetown + SALT courses/ certificate is going to be the same as NYU.

Also, if you want to be in DC, Georgetown is a better choice in my opinion, mainly because of the networking opportunities. You will take classes with adjuncts who are high level practitioners around DC (law firms, Big 4 WNT, IRS, Treasury, etc.), have access to externships with DC employers, and gain a reason for the "why DC?" question you will get when you go to interview for DC jobs. Maybe these advantages are nonexistent if schools are remote another year for covid; time will tell.

I've personally reviewed resumes of tax LLM students for my DC-based employer and I haven't given someone a bump for going to NYU over Georgetown. Your JD institution, JD grades, demonstrated long-time interest and success in tax, LLM grades, and interview skills matter WAY MORE than NYU vs. Georgetown, at least in my opinion. It's true that in general, students that go to the NYU program are better candidates because they generally went to better JD programs, had better JD grades, and took more tax classes. But that doesn't mean NYU is the thing making the difference - it's just a good data in good data out phenomenon.

I would say Southern biglaw (such as Texas) or the mid-west would be my overall goal out of an LLM. I am flexible to location and tax area I practice though. I was also concerned with the non-nyc non-DC pull of each schools and was looking to see which one would place better outside those markets.

[CanadianWolf]

For major law firms in Texas or Chicago, try to research the backgrounds of both partners & associates in any targeted law firm's tax department to see if that firm has grads of either or both tax llm programs.

I doubt that there would be much difference between NYU tax llm degree or Georgetown tax llm degree in Texas, but this is just a guess.

[Anonymous User]

Anon because I mention my involvement in my employer's hiring of tax llm candidates.

The difference between NYU and Georgetown is overstated as a general matter. I would think about the choice in terms of geography and practice specialty.

NYU is better for NYC, and it just so happens a ton of biglaw spots are in NYC. Off the top of my head I would say the vast majority law firm openings for Tax LLM students this past year in M&A tax/ general tax were in NYC. There were a couple in TX, a few in CA, and a couple in DC. So, yeah, if you are gunning for a NYC big firm in M&A/ transactional work, go with NYU. It's worth the extra 22k.

If you are shooting for a market outside of NYC, I'd say Georgetown + course selections / specialty certificate in the relevant specialty is going to set you up basically the same as going to NYU.

For example, many (if not most) law firm openings at TIP were in specialties, particularly exec comp & employee benefits. Positions for these were all over geographically, but concentrated in big coastal cities like LA, SF, NYC, and DC. If you went to Georgetown and got the employee benefits certificate, I'd find it hard to believe you'd be at a disadvantage interviewing against NYU students.

There was also a number of private client / trusts & estates openings at TIP, and this was pretty geographically spread out. For those types of positions, both Georgetown or NYU will get you an interview, but market ties, course selection, interview skills and the rest of your resume are going to be real difference makers, not the difference between NYU and Georgetown. For instance, there are a ton of jobs in FL for private client/ T&E and I think you'd need FL ties to get a real look from those firms, regardless of whether you attend Georgetown or NYU.

I'd say the same about SALT. Georgetown + SALT courses/ certificate is going to be the same as NYU.

Also, if you want to be in DC, Georgetown is a better choice in my opinion, mainly because of the networking opportunities. You will take classes with adjuncts who are high level practitioners around DC (law firms, Big 4 WNT, IRS, Treasury, etc.), have access to externships with DC employers, and gain a reason for the "why DC?" question you will get when you go to interview for DC jobs. Maybe these advantages are nonexistent if schools are remote another year for covid; time will tell.

I've personally reviewed resumes of tax LLM students for my DC-based employer and I haven't given someone a bump for going to NYU over Georgetown. Your JD institution, JD grades, demonstrated long-time interest and success in tax, LLM grades, and interview skills matter WAY MORE than NYU vs. Georgetown, at least in my opinion. It's true that in general, students that go to the NYU program are better candidates because they generally went to better JD programs, had better JD grades, and took more tax classes. But that doesn't mean NYU is the thing making the difference - it's just a good data in good data out phenomenon.

In your view, NYU and Gtown with proper course selection will carry the same weight in non-nyc markets? I've heard and seen the opposite, that outside of DC, NYU will carry a lot more weight. I would also say those FL private client/ T&E firms still prefer NYU/Gtown grads over UF grads, even though those UF students have FL ties. Just my observation so perhaps I am wrong. I still don't think you can go wrong between NYU and Gtown as they will pull more weight than any other program regardless of location.

"carry a lot more weight"? A lot?

I don't think there is a big difference outside of NYC between NYU and Georgetown because the hiring decision is always going to come down to something else, like ties, certificates, prior experience, etc. For example, if a big law firm in Atlanta is trying to hire an exec comp associate they are going to care more about Atlanta ties, JD program (bonus if UGA or Emory), exec comp & employee benefits courses/ certificate, grades, prior experience and personality fit. Whether the person went to NYU as opposed to Georgetown isn't going to move the needle much if they aren't checking the other boxes. I'll bet on the double-dawg who went to Georgetown LLM and got an A in exec comp to get the ATL exec comp job over some generic NYU LLM candidate 10 times out of 10.

This illustrates another point: hiring for law firms outside of major markets like NYC is hit or miss. You could be all in on Houston biglaw, but if only three firms in TX are hiring Tax LLMs that year, your shot at getting a job just aren't great whether you went to NYU or Georgetown.

The randomness of non-NYC hiring may actually support choosing NYU because if you can't get a TX job you are at least in better position to get a NYC job, which will set you up to lateral to TX later.

[Anonymous User]

For what it's worth, US news ranks Georgetown tax llm 3rd this year. I would go to NYU.

[Anonymous User]

Are you willing to share your credentials that resulted in such outstanding scholarship awards ?

TT law school, top 5% and have a CPA background prior to school. Have also done at least two internships involving tax law (one gov agency one private firm) and taken 3 or 4 tax classes receiving A's.

GULC JD+NYU Tax LLM grad here.

I think with your profile, the marginally stronger recruiting at NYU just isn't of much value to you. As someone with access to both GULC and NYU Symplicity sites, I can tell you the Tax job listings are essentially identical and they both primarily go through TIP. NYU may get a few more pre-TIP biglaw type resume drop interviews but it's not many and most were available on GULC side as well from what I heard.

With your profile, you have very strong chances at scoring biglaw interviews (if my experience and what I heard are any guide) during first semester (before any grades) and possibly secure an offer. (top 1/3 at GULC and I got multiple biglaw offers). Even if early recruiting doesn't pan out, you just need to be median to above medianish with decent interviewing skills to score a Biglaw gig, at either school. Big 4 is almost a safety outcome for you. Being at NYU will make it logistically easier for you to do early off-campus interviews in NYC but I don't think NYU will make it materially easier for you to score those interviews.