Associates that enjoy their work in BigLaw and want to stay long-term, what do you enjoy about your job? Forum

[Stevenmilbe]

As a law student, it's mind-numbing how often I hear people - generally who are not in BigLaw currently - complain about biglaw, say it's terrible, or tell me I won't last long there. I get it. It's hard work and not a sustainable lifestyle for many. But some people do enjoy it, and it can be very rewarding. If you are one of those people I would love to hear about what motivates you to keep going and what you enjoy about your job that makes it manageable to stay.

[WhiteCollarBlueShirt]

As a law student, it's mind-numbing how often I hear people - generally who are not in BigLaw currently - complain about biglaw, say it's terrible, or tell me I won't last long there. I get it. It's hard work and not a sustainable lifestyle for many. But some people do enjoy it, and it can be very rewarding. If you are one of those people I would love to hear about what motivates you to keep going and what you enjoy about your job that makes it manageable to stay.

Senior associate here... just wait until you're at a law firm, and you won't believe how often you hear complaints from current associates, counsel and junior partners (and occasionally more senior partners)... not what you're looking for though I know (I enjoy the money, job security and latitude to work remotely, but if it were up to me would do much less, for less money, during normal business hours)... juniors/mids often have it easier (not easy, but easier).

[Elston Gunn]

What is the basis for your assertion that “it can be very rewarding”? (Since you obviously don’t mean “financially rewarding.”)

The best things about biglaw are the money and the way it sets up you up for your next job. The other good things are—if you’re in the right practice group—a decent amount of autonomy and flexibility in when/where you work, the feeling that you’re working on a case/deal/issue that is “important” in some nebulous sense, and once you get past the junior years it’s a pretty intellectual job. Some of the litigators also really enjoy the battle element of it (though that’s not at all specific to Biglaw litigation). Oh and also the money.

[sparty99]

People enjoy the money. Duh.

[Anonymous User]

Well, I like my job more than most people in my year, and while I like my job most of the time, I do also complain a lot about being tired, feeling like I don't get paid enough for the demands, sometimes having to do bitch work (you can't reaaaally escape it, at any level, although the definition of "bitch work" varies from person to person), getting anxious about talking to my opposing counsel, etc. I'm not amazed and thankful everyday, but I'm also aware that no job is perfect, especially ones that pay this much, and I definitely really enjoy working with smart, sophisticated people -- I get extremely frustrated with public facing work...

[Anonymous User]

For me, the demands of the job are actually fine, but there is absolutely no reward in helping large private equity company acquire another company. It seems an awful fate if this and having a family were the only thing I ever did in my life. Which, with the hours, is probably true.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

A$ a law $tudent, it'$ mind-numbing how often I hear people - generally who are not in BigLaw currently - complain about biglaw, $ay it'$ terrible, or tell me I won't la$t long there. I get it. It'$ hard work and not a $u$tainable life$tyle for many. But $ome people do enjoy it, and it can be very rewarding. If you are one of tho$e people I would love to hear about what motivate$ you to keep going and what you enjoy about your job that make$ it manageable to $tay.

[sparty99]

A$ a law $tudent, it'$ mind-numbing how often I hear people - generally who are not in BigLaw currently - complain about biglaw, $ay it'$ terrible, or tell me I won't la$t long there. I get it. It'$ hard work and not a $u$tainable life$tyle for many. But $ome people do enjoy it, and it can be very rewarding. If you are one of tho$e people I would love to hear about what motivate$ you to keep going and what you enjoy about your job that make$ it manageable to $tay.

Exactly. It is such a stupid question that is always asked by some no nonsense law student.

[Anonymous User]

Not trying to pile on, OP, but as a current associate the one thing I can say with certainty about this job is that it is not rewarding. Ever.

I would encourage you to take the basically indisputable fact that the vast, vast majority of lawyers in biglaw do not like it as a sign that it might be worth pursuing a different path. (Unless you're only in it for the money, obviously. I've found that the money is not even close to worth it for me personally, but this of course varies by person.)

[BurnYourLifeDown]

As a senior corporate associate, I would say that the three pros to this job are the money, the compensation and the bonuses, and the cons are everything else.

[Best]

Money and I like risk analysis. Better jobs exist for both of these, but I'm still happy. Clients appreciate me and make it known as well. Six years and haven't thought about quitting, though I've lateralled up in prestige/ranking twice.

[kaiser]

As a law student, it's mind-numbing how often I hear people - generally who are not in BigLaw currently - complain about biglaw, say it's terrible, or tell me I won't last long there. I get it. It's hard work and not a sustainable lifestyle for many. But some people do enjoy it, and it can be very rewarding. If you are one of those people I would love to hear about what motivates you to keep going and what you enjoy about your job that makes it manageable to stay.

If you think that the people generally complaining about biglaw are not currently in biglaw, then it sounds like you have never worked in biglaw (which, unsurprisingly, is true in your case).

From my 6 years in biglaw, there are indeed a select few who just genuinely love it and wouldn't want to do anything else. But that is a very slim minority, even among the partners and established folks at the firm. For the overwhelming majority, its a series of compromises that they are ok making in the long term. Its not that they necessarily feel rewarded in the job, but they enjoy the work generally, and have accepted and internalized the compromises it took to get there. And even among those select few I referenced above who seem to genuinely love it, I can't say for sure if they are any different than the overwhelming majority, or whether they are simply better at putting on a public face of seeming content (which happens somewhat often in biglaw since people tend to play their cards close to their chest).

For me, there were a few things that made it somewhat enjoyable and manageable to stay for as long as I did. The compensation, first and foremost, but also I worked with amazing colleagues in a really cohesive and tight-knit group. Your experience in biglaw will only be as good as the people you work with. And the last piece was that our group leader really tried hard to give us really substantive work and lots of client contact. So I was made to act and feel like a senior associate even when I was just 2-3 years in. And all of that kept me pretty content for the time I was there.

[toast and bananas]

For me, there were a few things that made it somewhat enjoyable and manageable to stay for as long as I did. The compensation, first and foremost, but also I worked with amazing colleagues in a really cohesive and tight-knit group. Your experience in biglaw will only be as good as the people you work with. And the last piece was that our group leader really tried hard to give us really substantive work and lots of client contact. So I was made to act and feel like a senior associate even when I was just 2-3 years in. And all of that kept me pretty content for the time I was there.

For years I've been trying to convince wide-eyed law students of this fact, and for years my wisdom has been ignored in favor of naïve deference to vault rankings.

[JusticeHarlan]

As a law student, it's mind-numbing how often I hear people - generally who are not in BigLaw currently - complain about biglaw, say it's terrible, or tell me I won't last long there.

[Anonymous User]

You do biglaw because you want the money (and the salary expectation going into your next role), the training and the prestige. As someone who went in house to biglaw, I can say that it was the single worst decision in terms of mental health and happiness that I have ever made. I’m grateful for the increase in pay and doors it has opened and I would probably do it again.

Go to biglaw. But go in eyes wide open and live on half your salary so you can comfortably escape.

[objctnyrhnr]

Mid level general lit associate at relatively small office of v25ish firm chiming in. Regularly/consistently bill 2100-2300/yr.

I really like litigation. I like winning (losing when I thought I was gonna win does bum me out though), I like arguing, I like strategizing, I like writing, I like researching, and I like the chess moves.

I’ve performed well enough that I’ve gotten a good amount of autonomy and responsibility so I am able to see the entire case from a high level, but I do regularly get into the weeds as well. I also get to push much of the work I don’t want to do down to lower billers, so that’s nice.

Sometimes it gets super stressful and vacations get blown up and I miss out on stuff. Sometimes I fight with my spouse about my time availability, sometimes I can’t sleep due to work, sometimes I don’t see my kids for a couple days. Notably though so much of all of that nonsense happens to me when the court or opposing counsel does something stupid/annoying/ridiculous. At this point, it is rarely partner demands. It also only happens once every month or two at absolute most. Most weeks I can keep a solid 35-50 hours billed.

I also have the datapoint of having been in govt/PI for a couple years. So I can say with confident that I like this way better (especially when you factor in the money).

[Anonymous User]

Senior associate here. I work for two partners who (surprisingly) are both normal people. One actually took the time to mentor me when I was junior and shield me from unreasonable clients and people who email me during vacation. The other is very hands off and lets me run cases my way (so far, so good).

Also my junior associates have been great. They learn quickly and work hard, and I avoid giving them things to do on the weekends.

[showusyourtorts]

For me, there were a few things that made it somewhat enjoyable and manageable to stay for as long as I did. The compensation, first and foremost, but also I worked with amazing colleagues in a really cohesive and tight-knit group. Your experience in biglaw will only be as good as the people you work with. And the last piece was that our group leader really tried hard to give us really substantive work and lots of client contact. So I was made to act and feel like a senior associate even when I was just 2-3 years in. And all of that kept me pretty content for the time I was there.

For years I've been trying to convince wide-eyed law students of this fact, and for years my wisdom has been ignored in favor of naïve deference to vault rankings.

I mean, it's just that it's hard to tell, right? Most practice groups aren't small/cohesive enough or honest enough during callbacks and second looks for students to get a sense of whether they'll be working with good or bad people. I can't imagine it's very often that prospective associates can feel confident based off callbacks/second looks that they will actually be working day-to-day with 'good people' (obviously with that term used loosely, with 'good' as a proxy for whatever it is that makes employers make the biglaw experience as least miserable as possible), right? There will obviously be some exceptions -- for example, you'll potentially be able to identify a good group if you're interviewing in a smaller office/practice group, or those who knows someone they can trust that's already working inside that group, and you'll almost certainly have instances where you'll know enough about one partner/associate that you can feel confident that someplace would be a bad group -- but I feel like in the absence of one of those exceptions, and all else equal with your specific career/practice group/location interests, vault rankings are a relatively good proxy for making the 'right decision'.

[Anonymous User]

As a law student, it's mind-numbing how often I hear people - generally who are not in BigLaw currently - complain about biglaw, say it's terrible, or tell me I won't last long there. I get it. It's hard work and not a sustainable lifestyle for many. But some people do enjoy it, and it can be very rewarding. If you are one of those people I would love to hear about what motivates you to keep going and what you enjoy about your job that makes it manageable to stay.

I'm a senior transactional associate whose hours have typically ranged from 2100-2500. Generally, there are parts of the work that I've learned to like: I like working with companies on capital raises that might be important for some interesting new development for their business, and enjoy the process of getting deep into the details of a company and understanding them. I like the game design aspects of high yield covenant drafting or analysis. I mostly enjoy leading deal teams and trying to help train associates so that hopefully their learning curves won't be as painful as mine was.

That being said, it's not just that it's "hard work" that makes it an unsustainable lifestyle. It's a relentless volume of hard work, with all deals these days being on extremely short and overlapping timelines, and even on those rare days when you're not working hard, some new life-ruining deal may always just be a casual client email away. The unpredictability also makes it hard to maintain any work-life balance. (COVID solved that problem by removing the ability to travel anywhere or do anything anyway, so now it can just be work all the time.)

I like tacos, but I feel like I'm always being forced to eat 500 tacos in one sitting as fast as I can. Just as I'm finally on taco #495 and the end is in sight, I can already see partners and clients impatiently heading towards me with even more stacks of tacos. I try to say no but the tacos keep piling up on my table, and even when the table is overflowing with tacos, more people carrying more stacks of tacos are expectantly orbiting me at all times, waiting for some space to clear on the table for them to stack more tacos on.

[Spirit99]

As a law student, it's mind-numbing how often I hear people - generally who are not in BigLaw currently - complain about biglaw, say it's terrible, or tell me I won't last long there. I get it. It's hard work and not a sustainable lifestyle for many. But some people do enjoy it, and it can be very rewarding. If you are one of those people I would love to hear about what motivates you to keep going and what you enjoy about your job that makes it manageable to stay.

I'm a senior transactional associate whose hours have typically ranged from 2100-2500. Generally, there are parts of the work that I've learned to like: I like working with companies on capital raises that might be important for some interesting new development for their business, and enjoy the process of getting deep into the details of a company and understanding them. I like the game design aspects of high yield covenant drafting or analysis. I mostly enjoy leading deal teams and trying to help train associates so that hopefully their learning curves won't be as painful as mine was.

That being said, it's not just that it's "hard work" that makes it an unsustainable lifestyle. It's a relentless volume of hard work, with all deals these days being on extremely short and overlapping timelines, and even on those rare days when you're not working hard, some new life-ruining deal may always just be a casual client email away. The unpredictability also makes it hard to maintain any work-life balance. (COVID solved that problem by removing the ability to travel anywhere or do anything anyway, so now it can just be work all the time.)

I like tacos, but I feel like I'm always being forced to eat 500 tacos in one sitting as fast as I can. Just as I'm finally on taco #495 and the end is in sight, I can already see partners and clients impatiently heading towards me with even more stacks of tacos. I try to say no but the tacos keep piling up on my table, and even when the table is overflowing with tacos, more people carrying more stacks of tacos are expectantly orbiting me at all times, waiting for some space to clear on the table for them to stack more tacos on.

As a fellow senior transactional associate, I agree with this message. And let me tell you, these tacos ain't from Los Tacos No.1

[Anonymous User]

Midlevel transactional associate here. I don't aspire to make partner and won't stay more than a few additional years, but I'm also happy with my practice. I work in a relatively niche industry-focused group, so I work on a variety of types of commercial transactions, the deals are substantive, and there isn't really any busywork (e.g., a deal will typically have just one document, so I was drafting main agreements before the end of my first year, and pretty much never have to worry about BS like managing a checklist or coordinating diligence). A typical deal is just me and a partner, and if there's substantive diligence then I'll bring on a junior. The partners I work with are reasonable, protect their associates, say thank you, and tee up associates to continue to grow and take on ever bigger roles. In turn I have a lot of autonomy in my work. And I like my fellow associates, too. We all (partners and associates alike) actually socialize together. I bill +/- 2100 a year and have always had a market bonus and positive reviews. I share this because not all biglaw is the hellscape that this forum can sometimes make it out to be.

[Anonymous User]

Midlevel transactional associate here. I don't aspire to make partner and won't stay more than a few additional years, but I'm also happy with my practice. I work in a relatively niche industry-focused group, so I work on a variety of types of commercial transactions, the deals are substantive, and there isn't really any busywork (e.g., a deal will typically have just one document, so I was drafting main agreements before the end of my first year, and pretty much never have to worry about BS like managing a checklist or coordinating diligence). A typical deal is just me and a partner, and if there's substantive diligence then I'll bring on a junior. The partners I work with are reasonable, protect their associates, say thank you, and tee up associates to continue to grow and take on ever bigger roles. In turn I have a lot of autonomy in my work. And I like my fellow associates, too. We all (partners and associates alike) actually socialize together. I bill +/- 2100 a year and have always had a market bonus and positive reviews. I share this because not all biglaw is the hellscape that this forum can sometimes make it out to be.

care revealing where you work? imma lateral asap thanks

[lavarman84]

Mid level general lit associate at relatively small office of v25ish firm chiming in. Regularly/consistently bill 2100-2300/yr.

I really like litigation. I like winning (losing when I thought I was gonna win does bum me out though), I like arguing, I like strategizing, I like writing, I like researching, and I like the chess moves.

I’ve performed well enough that I’ve gotten a good amount of autonomy and responsibility so I am able to see the entire case from a high level, but I do regularly get into the weeds as well. I also get to push much of the work I don’t want to do down to lower billers, so that’s nice.

Sometimes it gets super stressful and vacations get blown up and I miss out on stuff. Sometimes I fight with my spouse about my time availability, sometimes I can’t sleep due to work, sometimes I don’t see my kids for a couple days. Notably though so much of all of that nonsense happens to me when the court or opposing counsel does something stupid/annoying/ridiculous. At this point, it is rarely partner demands. It also only happens once every month or two at absolute most. Most weeks I can keep a solid 35-50 hours billed.

I also have the datapoint of having been in govt/PI for a couple years. So I can say with confident that I like this way better (especially when you factor in the money).

I respect that. As somebody in government work (who graduated law school with no debt), I can say that I have zero interest in biglaw. I make a comfortable living, have a good QOL at my job, and get significant amounts of responsibility, autonomy, and complex/interesting work. I share your love of litigation. I am a competitive person, so it suits me well.

Anyways, OP, I wish you luck in biglaw. But if you can afford it, consider government work. You won't make as much money, but you'll get a lot of substantive work and responsibility early in your career.

[Anonymous User]

Mid level general lit associate at relatively small office of v25ish firm chiming in. Regularly/consistently bill 2100-2300/yr.

I really like litigation. I like winning (losing when I thought I was gonna win does bum me out though), I like arguing, I like strategizing, I like writing, I like researching, and I like the chess moves.

I’ve performed well enough that I’ve gotten a good amount of autonomy and responsibility so I am able to see the entire case from a high level, but I do regularly get into the weeds as well. I also get to push much of the work I don’t want to do down to lower billers, so that’s nice.

Sometimes it gets super stressful and vacations get blown up and I miss out on stuff. Sometimes I fight with my spouse about my time availability, sometimes I can’t sleep due to work, sometimes I don’t see my kids for a couple days. Notably though so much of all of that nonsense happens to me when the court or opposing counsel does something stupid/annoying/ridiculous. At this point, it is rarely partner demands. It also only happens once every month or two at absolute most. Most weeks I can keep a solid 35-50 hours billed.

I also have the datapoint of having been in govt/PI for a couple years. So I can say with confident that I like this way better (especially when you factor in the money).

I respect that. As somebody in government work (who graduated law school with no debt), I can say that I have zero interest in biglaw. I make a comfortable living, have a good QOL at my job, and get significant amounts of responsibility, autonomy, and complex/interesting work. I share your love of litigation. I am a competitive person, so it suits me well.

Anyways, OP, I wish you luck in biglaw. But if you can afford it, consider government work. You won't make as much money, but you'll get a lot of substantive work and responsibility early in your career.

How do you go about getting one of these government jobs? I'm actually asking. I'm in Biglaw now and want to die. What agencies should I be looking at?

[lavarman84]

Mid level general lit associate at relatively small office of v25ish firm chiming in. Regularly/consistently bill 2100-2300/yr.

I really like litigation. I like winning (losing when I thought I was gonna win does bum me out though), I like arguing, I like strategizing, I like writing, I like researching, and I like the chess moves.

I’ve performed well enough that I’ve gotten a good amount of autonomy and responsibility so I am able to see the entire case from a high level, but I do regularly get into the weeds as well. I also get to push much of the work I don’t want to do down to lower billers, so that’s nice.

Sometimes it gets super stressful and vacations get blown up and I miss out on stuff. Sometimes I fight with my spouse about my time availability, sometimes I can’t sleep due to work, sometimes I don’t see my kids for a couple days. Notably though so much of all of that nonsense happens to me when the court or opposing counsel does something stupid/annoying/ridiculous. At this point, it is rarely partner demands. It also only happens once every month or two at absolute most. Most weeks I can keep a solid 35-50 hours billed.

I also have the datapoint of having been in govt/PI for a couple years. So I can say with confident that I like this way better (especially when you factor in the money).

I respect that. As somebody in government work (who graduated law school with no debt), I can say that I have zero interest in biglaw. I make a comfortable living, have a good QOL at my job, and get significant amounts of responsibility, autonomy, and complex/interesting work. I share your love of litigation. I am a competitive person, so it suits me well.

Anyways, OP, I wish you luck in biglaw. But if you can afford it, consider government work. You won't make as much money, but you'll get a lot of substantive work and responsibility early in your career.

How do you go about getting one of these government jobs? I'm actually asking. I'm in Biglaw now and want to die. What agencies should I be looking at?

I've heard good things about federal agencies and local government jobs, but I'm not a good resource there. I work for a state AG. How well you get paid tends to depend on the state. And how happy you'll be will obviously depend on your practice area and the lawyers with whom you work. But there don't seem to be a shortage of interesting jobs with AG offices around the country.

I don't know where you're licensed and how portable it is (basically, whether you can waive into other states or transfer your UBE score). But if you have some flexibility, take a look at some of the states where you'd be willing to live (job postings are almost always on the website). The postings typically say you have to be admitted to the bar of that state, but I have found that quite a few states are flexible on that as long as you can get admitted in that state if offered the job.

I can't promise that you'll be happier because I don't know if you just dislike biglaw or dislike practicing law generally. But if it's due to the long hours, pressure of having to meet billable hour expectations, and never feeling you're off the clock, I can say that government will be a huge upgrade. And if you enjoy litigation, you actually get to litigate, not just do the grunt work nobody else wants to do.