Does a job like this exist? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Hi all, hoping someone can provide insight on this. I went to a t14, clerked for a district court, and am now in biglaw (v10-20 range). Like so many other people on here, I am really struggling in biglaw. It's only been a few months, but I am constantly stressed, tired, and cannot stand the piecemeal work that comes from all direction with little to no guidance. It's not that I've messed anything up, and the people are generally nice, it's just the constant demand for an immediate response at all times and the feeling that I need to be juggling a hundred things at once. I feel bad complaining, considering the pay is ridiculously high, but I am exhausted.

I know that I like practicing law, because I loved my clerkship, so it's not that being a lawyer in general is awful, I really think it's just biglaw. When clerking, I worked 8:00 to 5:30, worked on substantive legal matters with no micromanaging, and only had significant weekend work maybe once a month. Everyone there really enjoyed their jobs, but clearly recognized that life outside of work is just as important.

My question is, are there any jobs out there that are like clerking, and if so what are they? Do any pay above $100k, require billing hours, etc? I unfortunately obviously can't go back and clerk forever, with the exception of being a career clerk, but I don't know if I can do biglaw past the one year clerkship bonus clawback point. I'm really just looking for a light at the end of the tunnel by figuring out if/what other legal jobs I could look forward to applying to after this year. Thank you!

[Bosque]

Well, there is career clerking... as you yourself mention. Pretty sure that pays over 100K at the Federal level (though only just). Is there a reason you don't want to go for that, considering how much you say you liked clerking?

[Anonymous User]

Well, there is career clerking... as you yourself mention. Pretty sure that pays over 100K at the Federal level (though only just). Is there a reason you don't want to go for that, considering how much you say you liked clerking?

OP here - I definitely wouldn't mind career clerking, but from the career clerks I spoke to in my courthouse I've heard it's very difficult to find a position like that without having some kind of pre-existing relationship with the judge. There's also the uncertainty that comes with your long-term job being tied to the judge, since if they decide to retire or anything happens to them you're suddenly out of a job. If I could find a career clerk position in/adjacent to the east coast area I live in, that'd be awesome, but it seems like it'd be hard to hope/plan for due to the random nature of clerk hiring.

[YA_Tittle]

There's probably nothing in the short term that would be very satisfying. Maybe you should try to pivot to being a local prosecutor or something that will put you in a position towards being a judge and long-term satisfaction.

[Anonymous User]

This would obviously be a pay cut, but consider doing appeals in a DA's office or similar. In the office I work at, appeals lawyers have many of the things it sounds like you enjoyed about clerking: 9-5, meaningful/substantial matters, predictable and self-directed workflow (just a steady clip of briefing and occasional oral arguments), nice office culture, opportunities to become a better writer/researcher/lawyer, and lots of discretion.

Similar options exist at AGs, USAOs, PDs, Fed Defenders, and small private practices.

The pay cut is real but people manage, especially in a smaller city - and (at least for me) it's been kind of amazing how much farther a salary goes when work is regular/predictable and I can do things like meal prep. Also many places have a tight-knit appellate community that provides decent exit options.

[Anonymous User]

-CA Supreme Court hires research attorneys that are essentially career law clerks.
-So are arbitrators, who hire quasi-law clerks to help them keep up with their caseload. I heard these quasi-law clerks make very good money (like above $150k). They are their own boss, and are not tied to a particular arbitrator. Rather, they are essentially contractors.

[Elston Gunn]

Fedgov litigator would probably be a good fit for what you’re looking for.

[Anonymous User]

Fedgov litigator would probably be a good fit for what you’re looking for.

Thank you all for the responses! I will definitely look into the ones mentioned.

For fedgov litigator, does it matter what agency? I've seen some posting for attorney-advisor, and employment attorney positions, on USA jobs, but wasn't sure if some agencies were better to work for than others

[Anonymous User]

In a similar boat. Former Dist. Ct. clerk who doesn’t mind the work/people in Biglaw but can’t stand the needless stress of it all. I’ve heard state AG’s offices can be pretty awesome as far as offering interesting work, lots of autonomy, and great hours. The downside, obviously, is the shitty pay. But I feel like, if you make the right moves, you can move up pretty quickly in those offices and eventually be making north of 100k. Deputy AGs in the states I’ve looked at make around 120-150k (don’t attack me if I’m dead wrong about this - just going off the numbers I’ve seen).

I also recently saw a job posting with a small city gov that was offering over 100k. No clue what it takes to get one of those positions or what the work is like, though.

[Elston Gunn]

Fedgov litigator would probably be a good fit for what you’re looking for.

Thank you all for the responses! I will definitely look into the ones mentioned.

For fedgov litigator, does it matter what agency? I've seen some posting for attorney-advisor, and employment attorney positions, on USA jobs, but wasn't sure if some agencies were better to work for than others

Things definitely vary by agency and section, but I’m unfortunately not familiar enough with the lawyers at various agencies to give particularly good advice. My sense is that big city AUSA jobs will be faster paced and a bit less like what you’re looking for, as compared to other fed jobs.

Worth noting that the financial regulators (CFPB, SEC, CFTC, Fed, OCC, FDIC) pay significantly better than the rest of the government. AUSA will generally pay less than the standard GS scale. Main Justice will be in the middle.

I think attorney advisor jobs vary wildly in prestige, marketability and how interesting they are, but my sense is they are quite intellectual/research and writing focused.

[SamuelDanforth]

There are also COA Career Clerks, I think, that are not tied to a specific judge, but I think they tend to be topic specific (e.g. immigration career clerk). I don't know the exact details.

[Iowahawk]

It's not really like clerking, but attorneys firms in smaller markets typically work shorter hours for less money and better partnership prospects. I know Des Moines market starts at $100k, with the top firm at $150k, for jobs that typically require ~1850 billable hours, for example. Obviously you need ties. The smaller the market you're in the more likely you are to become a judge too if that's of interest long-term.

Aside from that yeah finding an interesting corner of state or federal government would be best. The top appellate jobs--DOJ civil appellate, OSG, state SGs--are probably out of your reach with only a district court but I expect you'd be quite competitive in many states for being a normal criminal appellate lawyer for a state AG.

Aside from California some other SSCs have career clerks, I know Illinois does, but those jobs by their nature probably open once in a blue moon.

[Anonymous User]

Lateral to a v30-40 firm. It sounds counterintuitive, but they’re much less stressful than v10-20 firms. I went to a v10 firm after my clerkship too, and billed 2500+ each year for the two years I was there. No one said anything because that was the expectation. Since lateraling, I’ve billed 21-2200 a year, gotten more responsibility, and the partners have told me they appreciate my “extra effort.”

[Anonymous User]

I work in a mid-law law firm in NYC. I generally get to work at 9:30 and leave at 5 and then work for 1-1.5 hours at home. We have an 1800 billable requirement but its flexible and its not a minimum-you aren't expected to bill more and your bonus isn't tied to your billable. I think one of the reasons this firm is much more flexible is a lot of our work is construction lit which is done on contingency so there's less billable pressure since they are not actually billing your hours.
I wouldn't call my work super high level or interesting but since its a small firm I get to be involved in more top level decisions like litigation strategy. The partners are always happy to hear my opinion on something. I also get to communicate with clients and do pretty much everything else as a junior associate.
I was also a state level clerk and although obviously my hours aren't as good as they where when I was doing that, they're very fair considering I'm making double what I was making then.
OP-maybe something like this would appeal to you?