Do firms no-offer based on social events/attendance? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Incoming 2L SA. I've heard stories (rumors/exaggerations?) of SAs getting no/cold-offered because they didn't attend enough social events. I get that networking will always be a "thing" and that maybe it's harder for the firm to boot you if the right people enjoy working/socializing with you. But I was wondering how much weight this really plays in the evals? I'm someone who's a bit more introverted and I'm hoping that my work product will speak for itself. How much effort should I put into social events? How will I know if some events are "encouraged" as opposed to truly optional? Would also love to hear any experiences with last year's summer programs given the virtual setting of it all.

Thanks!

[Anonymous User]

Incoming 2L SA. I've heard stories (rumors/exaggerations?) of SAs getting no/cold-offered because they didn't attend enough social events. I get that networking will always be a "thing" and that maybe it's harder for the firm to boot you if the right people enjoy working/socializing with you. But I was wondering how much weight this really plays in the evals? I'm someone who's a bit more introverted and I'm hoping that my work product will speak for itself. How much effort should I put into social events? How will I know if some events are "encouraged" as opposed to truly optional? Would also love to hear any experiences with last year's summer programs given the virtual setting of it all.

Thanks!

Firms don't bring on summers and pay them first-year associate rates for their work product, they bring them on to evaluate if they want to hire them full-time.

[Anonymous User]

I would treat social events as 100% mandatory -- you are effectively on a summer-long job interview. If your work is good enough, you might be able to skate by with not attending the events, but why risk it? If I were on a hiring committee, I would certainly have reservations if the rest of the summer associates are attending events (which likely will be the case) and someone was consistently missing. You don't need to "shine" at social events, but you need to attend and be a good sport and convince everyone you won't be unpleasant to spend significant time around.

[Anonymous User]

Incoming 2L SA. I've heard stories (rumors/exaggerations?) of SAs getting no/cold-offered because they didn't attend enough social events. I get that networking will always be a "thing" and that maybe it's harder for the firm to boot you if the right people enjoy working/socializing with you. But I was wondering how much weight this really plays in the evals? I'm someone who's a bit more introverted and I'm hoping that my work product will speak for itself. How much effort should I put into social events? How will I know if some events are "encouraged" as opposed to truly optional? Would also love to hear any experiences with last year's summer programs given the virtual setting of it all.

Thanks!

This seems to be the critical part. Everyone knows (even if they can’t publicly admit it) that 98% of all Zoom social events are gut-wrenchingly horrible. Does that mean SAs can skip the events altogether? Probably not. But are you expected to “perform” socially at a high level? I’m not sure.

[Anonymous User]

Showing up and not doing anything both weird/bad and memorable is enough. Most people say you should attend all events; that's likely not necessary but you should have a good reason when you get asked why you missed XYZ. I was a pre-COVID summer and we probably had an average of two evening social events a week for ten weeks; I missed two or three and had good reasons for each, that was more than sufficient. A colleague would miss two or three each month - often because they said they had to work (which is not a good reason at my firm, which doesn't prioritize summer work product like a Cravath) - and they took a hit. I later learned that, while they received an offer, it was discussed at length by the summer committee before deciding to extend one.

[Anonymous User]

My experience applies to in-person summer so take it for what it is.

If your firm is anything like mine there are literally too many events to reasonably attend all of them or nearly all of them. Attend all the mandatory events (obviously), and all the large class-wide events. But you don’t have to attend every single Private Equity Pretzel Tasting or what have you. Go to the smaller group-hosted events in the groups that interest you and might want to join. That’s what the small events are for anyway.

And don’t overthink any of this. Don’t worry about “shining” at social events. Show up, be seen, make pleasant conversation, don’t leave excessively early.

[Anonymous User]

My experience applies to in-person summer so take it for what it is.

If your firm is anything like mine there are literally too many events to reasonably attend all of them or nearly all of them. Attend all the mandatory events (obviously), and all the large class-wide events. But you don’t have to attend every single Private Equity Pretzel Tasting or what have you. Go to the smaller group-hosted events in the groups that interest you and might want to join. That’s what the small events are for anyway.

And don’t overthink any of this. Don’t worry about “shining” at social events. Show up, be seen, make pleasant conversation, don’t leave excessively early.

Introvert here and was a summer long ago, but I would disagree. I would go to everything unless you have a conflict. You have no clue right now which connections you will want or need when you start working, and the small events are actually the best for developing those connections. Just because you don't think you will ever work with a partner in a different practice group, doesn't mean you don't want their support down the line for things like bonus decisions, partnership consideration, comittee placement, ect. The Private Equity Pretzel Tasting might be your only real opportunity to mingle with the Private Equity group, if you are not in that practice. Since they are still at your firm and have influence over your career, I would take advantage. You are never, ever going to have the time and opportunity to network with your firm like you do as a summer, you absolutely should be going to everything.

Also, pretzels are tasty. Who in their right mind turns down a free pretzel tasting!?

(All that said, you won't get no offered for not going, this is about building your practice down the road).

[Anonymous User]

As someone who was a 2L SA during the virtual summer, the bar seems to be much lower for virtual summer events. Almost everyone I know only had one major social event a week (a paint night, trivia, scavenger hunt, etc) and the only other socialization (after the first week of meet and greet sort of events with each department) were informal Zoom coffees that you as an SA had to schedule with partners or associates who you were interested in talking to. Even at the main events, there was limited social interaction- since there were generally “hosts” of the event who were the ones talking the whole time (to explain how to make the painting, etc.). I don’t think I had to talk to people for more than 10-15 minutes at a single event (which lasted 1.5 hours on average), and some events were even less than that. Honestly, I think everyone realized that the reality of a Zoom social event is that it’s inherently awkward. I didn’t go to one of the 6 main events, and left another one early (after 2 cringeworthy breakout groups with myself and 2 attorneys, no other SAs). Nobody ever mentioned it and it had no impact on my summer (still got a full time offer). And this was at a firm with a summer class of about 15 people for the office- so definitely not a giant NYC class. If you’re going to an NYC firm with a class of 50+, I am not sure that anyone would even notice if you didn’t go to a virtual event or two during the summer. I just find it hard to believe that anyone is sitting there taking attendance of which SAs are present and which aren’t. Idk, maybe my experience was different from others but I just felt like for me, the social events were 1) a total burden; and 2) seemed to have no bearing on my ability to get an offer (the Zoom coffee sort of events I scheduled with partners and associates in my preferred department seemed like a much better way to get to know people).

[hdr]

No clue how to navigate the world of Zoom events; I certainly don't envy summers right now. But two general points:

1) Don't plan to rely on your work product. Even if it's exceptional, it might only be seen by associates who have little influence on the hiring process and who don't care much anyway.

2) If for whatever reason the firm decides to cut the incoming class size, you'll be at a serious disadvantage if people don't know who you are.

[albinododobird]

I was a virtual summer last year and I didn't go to many social events. I still got an offer. My firm has a pretty formal system for getting feedback from everyone you work with, though, and I had good reviews. I also have a kid, so it would look pretty bad if they no offered me for not attending enough Zoom cocktail hours. Obviously this is just one data point, and probably not super useful since I'm pretty sure 100% of my class got offers. But I wouldn't worry about it too much, particularly if you're getting a lot of work. In my experience, working was the best way to build connections with people at the firm. Second best was asking people if they would have a virtual coffee with me. Third best was going to small group events. For big events, you should use your judgment. You shouldn't miss the end-of-the-summer extravaganza without a good reason, but summers-only paint night is optional.

[Anonymous User]

My experience applies to in-person summer so take it for what it is.

If your firm is anything like mine there are literally too many events to reasonably attend all of them or nearly all of them. Attend all the mandatory events (obviously), and all the large class-wide events. But you don’t have to attend every single Private Equity Pretzel Tasting or what have you. Go to the smaller group-hosted events in the groups that interest you and might want to join. That’s what the small events are for anyway.

And don’t overthink any of this. Don’t worry about “shining” at social events. Show up, be seen, make pleasant conversation, don’t leave excessively early.

Introvert here and was a summer long ago, but I would disagree. I would go to everything unless you have a conflict. You have no clue right now which connections you will want or need when you start working, and the small events are actually the best for developing those connections. Just because you don't think you will ever work with a partner in a different practice group, doesn't mean you don't want their support down the line for things like bonus decisions, partnership consideration, comittee placement, ect. The Private Equity Pretzel Tasting might be your only real opportunity to mingle with the Private Equity group, if you are not in that practice. Since they are still at your firm and have influence over your career, I would take advantage. You are never, ever going to have the time and opportunity to network with your firm like you do as a summer, you absolutely should be going to everything.

Also, pretzels are tasty. Who in their right mind turns down a free pretzel tasting!?

(All that said, you won't get no offered for not going, this is about building your practice down the road).

Going to everything would have been literally impossible at my Zoom SA. I did the mandatory ones and a couple a week that seemed interesting but they offered like a dozen a week and there was certainly no expectation that everyone do everything (in fact most had sign ups and limited space).

Also you really don’t get to know people with Zoom social events, I was reasonably active at them and don’t even remember anyone’s name in my class beyond people I worked with or went to school with. They try to make them interactive and stuff but they really can’t, it was a huge contrast to my in-person 1L SA. On the flip side, that’s maybe good if you’re an introvert, these aren’t real social events.

[Anonymous User]

I was also a virtual SA. I over-committed to many of the socials and went to pretty much all of the ones offered. I do not regret it. Yes, you don't need to go to all of them or even say anything, but I highly suggest you just accept all the Zoom invites. I felt pretty lucky in the sense that I could meet with every department at the socials or info sessions without running around an office all stressed out.

You'll probably accept too many of them and then have to back out of a handful later on since you'll get an assignment that pushes into the evening. It won't look bad if that happens.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

Don't violate the cardinal rule of being a summer: Never stand out for any reason.

[avenuem]

Don't violate the cardinal rule of being a summer: Never stand out for any reason.

There's always an exception to the rule, namely, standing towers over all the other summers.

Worth standing out if you leave and everyone knows you're a snub-nosed summer who does't take no for an answer, who forgets others name but is remembered by everyone, who doesnt go to all social events but brings the party to all places where you go, who hasn't sat for the bar but sat AT THE bar, and who isnt a partner but has already submitted a draft partner bio. If the economy took another hit and I could only hire one summer, that summer would stand out.