(international students) the visa discussion after the offer Forum

[Anonymous User]

How have you proceeded with the firm after you accepted an offer? My firm has been very quiet and I don't want to come off as pushy, either. Also, do you think receptiveness to visa sponsorship is office-specific, or firm-wide?

[Anonymous User]

Just contact the HR and ask - YMMV but big law firms typically do not care. From what I've heard, most if not all big law firms are happy to sponsor if you're qualified.

Don't think its office specific from what I've seen, but New York/SF/LA/Chicago offices seem to sponsor

[Anonymous User]

Just contact the HR and ask - YMMV but big law firms typically do not care. From what I've heard, most if not all big law firms are happy to sponsor if you're qualified.

Don't think its office specific from what I've seen, but New York/SF/LA/Chicago offices seem to sponsor

This. UK firms conventionally appear to be more international and more willing to accomodate, but most NY biglaws would not frown upon it.
Might be a bit tricky if they withdrew from Asia altogether. However Fried Frank is hiring quite a few Koreans and Chinese from what I can tell this summer after they closed shop in Asia, so may be take a grain of salt with what I said.

[Anonymous User]

I have friends who have similar concerns, they typically ask for visa policy BEFORE making the decision to join the firm - I imagine that would be quite a big factor for intl students. I have seen ppl choose one firm over all other peer firms solely for visa reasons. Greencard policy varies (some firms sponsor you early on, some not until you are on partnership track, some never sponsors), H1B policy also varies between firms (some firms only enter you into lottery once, some enter you more than that). You need to know. Your discussions with HR regarding visa issues are common and important to you, HRs understand it. As long as you don't phrase your question in any offensive way. Have this convo as early as possible so you can be prepared for what's coming next.

[Anonymous User]

I have friends who have similar concerns, they typically ask for visa policy BEFORE making the decision to join the firm - I imagine that would be quite a big factor for intl students. I have seen ppl choose one firm over all other peer firms solely for visa reasons. Greencard policy varies (some firms sponsor you early on, some not until you are on partnership track, some never sponsors), H1B policy also varies between firms (some firms only enter you into lottery once, some enter you more than that). You need to know. Your discussions with HR regarding visa issues are common and important to you, HRs understand it. As long as you don't phrase your question in any offensive way. Have this convo as early as possible so you can be prepared for what's coming next.

^ Strong seconding of everything to do with the above. Some firms will enter you into H1B lottery and after it fails to go through the first time will just shitcan you. Some will make room for you in foreign offices. Some will sponsor you for green card as soon as a third year, some not until you're a partner. Like, these are all huge differences.

[gontid]

I have friends who have similar concerns, they typically ask for visa policy BEFORE making the decision to join the firm - I imagine that would be quite a big factor for intl students. I have seen ppl choose one firm over all other peer firms solely for visa reasons. Greencard policy varies (some firms sponsor you early on, some not until you are on partnership track, some never sponsors), H1B policy also varies between firms (some firms only enter you into lottery once, some enter you more than that). You need to know. Your discussions with HR regarding visa issues are common and important to you, HRs understand it. As long as you don't phrase your question in any offensive way. Have this convo as early as possible so you can be prepared for what's coming next.

^ Strong seconding of everything to do with the above. Some firms will enter you into H1B lottery and after it fails to go through the first time will just shitcan you. Some will make room for you in foreign offices. Some will sponsor you for green card as soon as a third year, some not until you're a partner. Like, these are all huge differences.

Which firms sponsor green card within three years?

[Anonymous User]

Labor certifications are public (albeit redacted) but can be sorted by employer and include the graduating year of people being sponsored, so can piece it together. I looked into this in 2020 and there were several V20s who in the past 5 years had sponsored at least one person who had graduated within 3 years of the certification.

[gontid]

Labor certifications are public (albeit redacted) but can be sorted by employer and include the graduating year of people being sponsored, so can piece it together. I looked into this in 2020 and there were several V20s who in the past 5 years had sponsored at least one person who had graduated within 3 years of the certification.

I checked a few sites that offer that information. Looks like sponsoring a third-year is very rare, even at firms that do allow this.

[Anonymous User]

Which firms sponsor green card within three years?

https://www.myvisajobs.com/Legal-Servic ... 2021IN.htm

(anon b/c post history with non-citizen status may out me)

[Anonymous User]

Which firms sponsor green card within three years?

https://www.myvisajobs.com/Legal-Servic ... 2021IN.htm

(anon b/c post history with non-citizen status may out me)

Great website, but just a note: this is list of firms with highest number of H1B sponsorship - but NOT greencard sponsorship. The list is not the most accurate reflection of firms' greencard policy, but it does show how international their US offices are. Among the list I would say (on average) Cleary has better greencard policy than WSGR/Sidley/Ropes/DPW/STB, despite being ranked lower on this list (confirmed by multiple sources).

[Anonymous User]

One more item to consider - even if a firm does sponsor a green card, the process right now is taking incredibly long. Before they can even file the I-129 and I-485, they have to go through the PERM and recruiting process, which right now is taking upwards of a year. If you leave your firm during the PERM process or within 6 months of the I-129/I-485 being filed, you have to start the entire process from scratch again. It could take you as long as 2 years from the moment a firm agrees to start exploring the green card process to actually having the green card in hand.

[gontid]

Which firms sponsor green card within three years?

https://www.myvisajobs.com/Legal-Servic ... 2021IN.htm

(anon b/c post history with non-citizen status may out me)

Great website, but just a note: this is list of firms with highest number of H1B sponsorship - but NOT greencard sponsorship. The list is not the most accurate reflection of firms' greencard policy, but it does show how international their US offices are. Among the list I would say (on average) Cleary has better greencard policy than WSGR/Sidley/Ropes/DPW/STB, despite being ranked lower on this list (confirmed by multiple sources).

Does "better than WSGR/Sidley/Ropes/DPW/STB" mean much? According to the page below, Cleary only sponsored 1 green card petition from 2018 to 2020.

https://www.myvisajobs.com/Visa-Sponsor ... 116265.htm

[Anonymous User]

Which firms sponsor green card within three years?

https://www.myvisajobs.com/Legal-Servic ... 2021IN.htm

(anon b/c post history with non-citizen status may out me)

Great website, but just a note: this is list of firms with highest number of H1B sponsorship - but NOT greencard sponsorship. The list is not the most accurate reflection of firms' greencard policy, but it does show how international their US offices are. Among the list I would say (on average) Cleary has better greencard policy than WSGR/Sidley/Ropes/DPW/STB, despite being ranked lower on this list (confirmed by multiple sources).

Quoted anon, thanks for clarifying this; I assumed OP was asking about H1B. Here's more about green card sponsorship, but tl;dr I would not hold my breath on ANY firm sponsoring GC: https://www.myvisajobs.com/Legal-Servic ... RM20IN.htm

[Anonymous User]

Double posting.

[Anonymous User]

One more item to consider - even if a firm does sponsor a green card, the process right now is taking incredibly long. Before they can even file the I-129 and I-485, they have to go through the PERM and recruiting process, which right now is taking upwards of a year. If you leave your firm during the PERM process or within 6 months of the I-129/I-485 being filed, you have to start the entire process from scratch again. It could take you as long as 2 years from the moment a firm agrees to start exploring the green card process to actually having the green card in hand.

My firm is going through this process for me right now. Midlevel V10. Their estimate is indeed 2 years start-to-finish, so this is right on point. (ETA -- I am certain they went through this process with another midlevel in the past two years as well)

[Anonymous User]

Which firms sponsor green card within three years?

https://www.myvisajobs.com/Legal-Servic ... 2021IN.htm

(anon b/c post history with non-citizen status may out me)

Great website, but just a note: this is list of firms with highest number of H1B sponsorship - but NOT greencard sponsorship. The list is not the most accurate reflection of firms' greencard policy, but it does show how international their US offices are. Among the list I would say (on average) Cleary has better greencard policy than WSGR/Sidley/Ropes/DPW/STB, despite being ranked lower on this list (confirmed by multiple sources).

Quoted anon, thanks for clarifying this; I assumed OP was asking about H1B. Here's more about green card sponsorship, but tl;dr I would not hold my breath on ANY firm sponsoring GC: https://www.myvisajobs.com/Legal-Servic ... RM20IN.htm

several top firms actually have clear GC policy - for example S&C, https://careers.sullcrom.com/visa-policy

[Anonymous User]

One more item to consider - even if a firm does sponsor a green card, the process right now is taking incredibly long. Before they can even file the I-129 and I-485, they have to go through the PERM and recruiting process, which right now is taking upwards of a year. If you leave your firm during the PERM process or within 6 months of the I-129/I-485 being filed, you have to start the entire process from scratch again. It could take you as long as 2 years from the moment a firm agrees to start exploring the green card process to actually having the green card in hand.

My firm is going through this process for me right now. Midlevel V10. Their estimate is indeed 2 years start-to-finish, so this is right on point. (ETA -- I am certain they went through this process with another midlevel in the past two years as well)

Wow that actually seems short. I think GC waiting period is also country-of-origin dependent? I heard it's a much longer wait for people who were born in India or China (regardless of their current citizenship of country) not sure if that's true tho. Should be shorter for people born in Singapore/Canada? Or do you think the 2 year waiting period is universal for all biglaw associates trying to get a greencard?

[Anonymous User]

One more item to consider - even if a firm does sponsor a green card, the process right now is taking incredibly long. Before they can even file the I-129 and I-485, they have to go through the PERM and recruiting process, which right now is taking upwards of a year. If you leave your firm during the PERM process or within 6 months of the I-129/I-485 being filed, you have to start the entire process from scratch again. It could take you as long as 2 years from the moment a firm agrees to start exploring the green card process to actually having the green card in hand.

My firm is going through this process for me right now. Midlevel V10. Their estimate is indeed 2 years start-to-finish, so this is right on point. (ETA -- I am certain they went through this process with another midlevel in the past two years as well)

Wow that actually seems short. I think GC waiting period is also country-of-origin dependent? I heard it's a much longer wait for people who were born in India or China (regardless of their current citizenship of country) not sure if that's true tho. Should be shorter for people born in Singapore/Canada? Or do you think the 2 year waiting period is universal for all biglaw associates trying to get a greencard?

Mine took 2 years 4 months from the firm saying "yes we will get it" to having it in my hand. The addition of an interview (which happened after we started and before I got it) added ~ 6 mos to the process vs. a friend who got his just before the interview requirement was added. Not sure what COVID and defunding/deprioritising of immigration services under Trump did to that wait time though, this was a couple of years ago.

[Anonymous User]

I have friends who have similar concerns, they typically ask for visa policy BEFORE making the decision to join the firm - I imagine that would be quite a big factor for intl students. I have seen ppl choose one firm over all other peer firms solely for visa reasons. Greencard policy varies (some firms sponsor you early on, some not until you are on partnership track, some never sponsors), H1B policy also varies between firms (some firms only enter you into lottery once, some enter you more than that). You need to know. Your discussions with HR regarding visa issues are common and important to you, HRs understand it. As long as you don't phrase your question in any offensive way. Have this convo as early as possible so you can be prepared for what's coming next.

^ Strong seconding of everything to do with the above. Some firms will enter you into H1B lottery and after it fails to go through the first time will just shitcan you. Some will make room for you in foreign offices. Some will sponsor you for green card as soon as a third year, some not until you're a partner. Like, these are all huge differences.

Fully agree. This is something everyone should ask about during interviews. For those with H1Bs that want greencards, I would also add the following advice:

1) Ask early what your firm's policy is - given that it takes ~2 years to get the greencard after the process is started, if they do it any later than 4th year as a matter of policy, if your main goal is a GC I would consider lateraling as towards the end of your third year. I know people that did this and part of their agreement to go to a new firm was sponsorship for the GC.

2) When you learn what their policy is, inquire ~ 6 mos before you would be eligible to see if they will be willing to do it for you. If you get anything other than a solid yes, start looking for lateral positions per above.

3) If your firm offers such a thing, consider strongly before agreeing to a foreign rotation. Firstly, it tolls the H1B meaning, depending on partner track timing, you may really be gambling your GC on also making partner. Secondly they can bring you back on a L1, meaning no incentive to get you a GC because it doesn't run out after 6 years (unlike H1B).

In my experience, law firms massively underestimate the mental toll immigration worries cause and most partners are completely clueless about how hard and time consuming it is. It is also a good idea to get partners that like you on your side early on and having them aware of the issues.

Caveat: the above advice assumes getting a GC is more important than other considerations abt why one would or would not want to move firms or go abroad.

[Anonymous User]

One more item to consider - even if a firm does sponsor a green card, the process right now is taking incredibly long. Before they can even file the I-129 and I-485, they have to go through the PERM and recruiting process, which right now is taking upwards of a year. If you leave your firm during the PERM process or within 6 months of the I-129/I-485 being filed, you have to start the entire process from scratch again. It could take you as long as 2 years from the moment a firm agrees to start exploring the green card process to actually having the green card in hand.

My firm is going through this process for me right now. Midlevel V10. Their estimate is indeed 2 years start-to-finish, so this is right on point. (ETA -- I am certain they went through this process with another midlevel in the past two years as well)

Wow that actually seems short. I think GC waiting period is also country-of-origin dependent? I heard it's a much longer wait for people who were born in India or China (regardless of their current citizenship of country) not sure if that's true tho. Should be shorter for people born in Singapore/Canada? Or do you think the 2 year waiting period is universal for all biglaw associates trying to get a greencard?

Basically, to oversimplify, you can think of it like: it takes 2 years to reach the final stage. If you're Indian or Chinese, you get put into a (literally) decade+ long holding period at this stage. If you're like, Canadian or whatever, it's nearly immediate. But this is after the 2 year process. If everything breaks perfectly (no labor audit, everything gets filed and processed asap, you're not indian or chinese, etc.) it can theoretically be a bit speedier than that start-to-finish, though.