What are the personality traits that allow someone to do biglaw without being miserable? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Do you know someone who is a biglaw associate and is genuinely not miserable (i.e. they seem to manage stress well, make time for personal activities, and don't let the job get to them)? If so, what personality traits seem to make them able to handle it? (E.g. not being sensitive to criticism, having a strong sense of boundaries between work and personal life, not comparing themselves to others, etc?)

[blair.waldorf]

Honestly, not being too type A. You have to be somewhat Type A to do a good job, but if you're too anxious/perfectionistic, you're going to be miserable. You have to remember that it's just a job. I have a couple of very high anxiety friends and they are having a very rough go of biglaw so far.

I started anti-anxiety meds last year after I took the bar exam and I've been cool as a cucumber so far in biglaw. I did not handle 1L well at ALL and was genuinely worried about how I'd handle biglaw, but I've been fine so far. I highly recommend medication and/or therapy for anyone struggling with high anxiety.

[Anonymous User]

Sociopathy

[Elston Gunn]

I’ll second that one of the biggest ones is just not being too type A and being willing to be less than perfect. Biglaw encourages perfectionism and attracts perfectionists but you will absolutely drive yourself insane that way. Especially after establishing a good reputation for yourself in the first year or two, you just need to chill out and accept making some typos, or that sometimes the juniors work product that you didn’t flyspeck before you passed along wasn’t perfect. It’s just a job.

[nealric]

A few traits:

Introversion: I don't mean being socially awkward, but the type of person who is content to spend a day alone with their thoughts. Especially as a junior associate, you will spend a lot of time alone going through documents.

Ambition: Most people who are too cynical going in burn out pretty quick. Even if the odds are stacked against you to make partner, those who excel tend to at least have that ambition.

Genuine interest in the work: The vast majority of folks are going to have a tough time getting excited about most biglaw work, but those who do best find something about them that interest them. They get invested in the case even if their piece may be just mind numbing small details.

[Lesion of Doom]

You can either be mellow because you recognize that the job is a mere transaction that's most likely transient and a footnote in the narrative of your existence, or you can be an insufferable prick who gets off on making other people miserable. I've seen both personality types thrive.

[papermateflair]

I don't know if it is personality traits as much as attitude and circumstances - are you looking for THIS job to fulfil all of your needs/desires? Do you have external stressors that make things that happen at work harder to deal with? I'm a senior associate who has done big law without feeling miserable, but I can't tell if it's because I don't care THAT much (I am not doing this job because I am passionate about it, I want to just get paid so I can enjoy my life), or if it's because when stressful things happen at work, I'm not thinking about how it derails my 5 year plan (which I do not have) or how it could impact my family (single, no kids). I make sure that big law isn't continually coming between me and the things that bring me joy, and keep it as a means to an end - I can afford to do xyz with my hobby because my job pays me enough to do it, but if I couldn't do my hobby at all because the big law hours were interfering then I would reprioritize. But having less financial pressure (if I got fired tomorrow I would be fine for years) helps this as well, and I don't think most juniors are in that position (unless, of course, you have family money).

[Anonymous User]

I wonder if there's an ideal MBTI type. I am (allegedly) an INTJ and I am absolutely miserable in my big law job.

[bodylikeatwizzler]

One thing and one thing only, low expectations from life. I don't mean this in a pejorative way either. It's just a fact. Lower your expectations until you're grateful.

[Anonymous User]

I wonder if there's an ideal MBTI type. I am (allegedly) an INTJ and I am absolutely miserable in my big law job.

Intp here. Hate it too. Mostly the weekend work. If I could just work 60 hours and unplug for 2 days I could do it.

[Anonymous User]

Very motivated by money.

In addition to being motivated by money, also motivated by moving up the ladder (social and career), and willing to grind it out for it.

Doesn't take things too seriously.

Very good mental and physical endurance to get through rough periods of grinding it out.

Genuine interest in industry they service.

Likes clients they work with and wants to go out of way to make them happy - someone that enjoys helping others and seeing others succeed.

Is a people person and motivated by client contact, but willing to go days of isolation without depression.

Deep thinker.

Hard worker.

Enjoys the process of working - finds some sort of comfort,stability and relaxation in work.

Realizes big law is just a job (still willing to make it a priority and work hard as ever at it, but also able to unplug from work-mode in limited down time).

Is able to unwind without going into self-destructive habits (like for instance after a very rough week, destressing by just spending time with friends or family, or going on a hike, rather than drinking yourself to death). This goes hand in hand with endurance to survive in the biglaw marathon.

These are some traits off the top of my head re people that are not miserable on the corporate/M&A side.

[burritotaco]

Very motivated by money.

In addition to being motivated by money, also motivated by moving up the ladder (social and career), and willing to grind it out for it.

Doesn't take things too seriously.

Very good mental and physical endurance to get through rough periods of grinding it out.

Genuine interest in industry they service.

Likes clients they work with and wants to go out of way to make them happy - someone that enjoys helping others and seeing others succeed.

Is a people person and motivated by client contact, but willing to go days of isolation without depression.

Deep thinker.

Hard worker.

Enjoys the process of working - finds some sort of comfort,stability and relaxation in work.

Realizes big law is just a job (still willing to make it a priority and work hard as ever at it, but also able to unplug from work-mode in limited down time).

Is able to unwind without going into self-destructive habits (like for instance after a very rough week, destressing by just spending time with friends or family, or going on a hike, rather than drinking yourself to death). This goes hand in hand with endurance to survive in the biglaw marathon.

These are some traits off the top of my head re people that are not miserable on the corporate/M&A side.

I agree with this list entirely and would rank these qualities in that order of importance. I immediately thought of a friend when I saw this thread title who is happy 6 or 7 years into big law and he has all of these qualities.

I think another hugely beneficial personality trait is being confident and (in litigation) being driven to win. I can think of some big law coworkers who were not the best or the brightest, but they thrived because they were confident and loved the battle of litigation.

[lolwutpar]

Very motivated by money.

Doesn't take things too seriously.

Realizes big law is just a job (still willing to make it a priority and work hard as ever at it, but also able to unplug from work-mode in limited down time).

Is able to unwind without going into self-destructive habits (like for instance after a very rough week, destressing by just spending time with friends or family, or going on a hike, rather than drinking yourself to death). This goes hand in hand with endurance to survive in the biglaw marathon.

These are some traits off the top of my head re people that are not miserable on the corporate/M&A side.

IME, these are the most important traits. But above all, not taking it too seriously and realizing it's just a job.

[Anonymous User]

I wonder if there's an ideal MBTI type. I am (allegedly) an INTJ and I am absolutely miserable in my big law job.

Intp here. Hate it too. Mostly the weekend work. If I could just work 60 hours and unplug for 2 days I could do it.

Same! I have no problem with long hours, but I do need dedicated time away.

[wanderinglawyer]

I wonder if there's an ideal MBTI type. I am (allegedly) an INTJ and I am absolutely miserable in my big law job.

Intp here. Hate it too. Mostly the weekend work. If I could just work 60 hours and unplug for 2 days I could do it.

Just as a counterpoint, I'm an INTJ, senior associate in biglaw, and I like what I do.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

The *happiest* people are the ones who have figured out when to leave, are progressing towards that, and are confident in their decision to do so.

The most *successful* people, in terms of career advancement, are the ones most crippingly insecure about their money, self-worth, and appearances to others (especially family and friends).

[Anonymous User]

The *happiest* people are the ones who have figured out when to leave, are progressing towards that, and are confident in their decision to do so.

The most *successful* people, in terms of career advancement, are the ones most crippingly insecure about their money, self-worth, and appearances to others (especially family and friends).

Agreed. Also agree with the sociopathy comment. Everyone I have seen make partner in biglaw frequently ruined peoples nights/weekends regularly in order to slightly over deliver on client expectations. Like, making your junior associates stay up night after night with only a couple of hours of sleep so that you can get your deal closed a teensy bit faster than the other associates you are competing with, so you can impress the clients/partners and make partner (solely for your own benefit and little to no benefit to juniors) seems sociopathic to me. But, this is what most people who make partner do (at least in my experience).

[Buglaw]

The *happiest* people are the ones who have figured out when to leave, are progressing towards that, and are confident in their decision to do so.

The most *successful* people, in terms of career advancement, are the ones most crippingly insecure about their money, self-worth, and appearances to others (especially family and friends).

Agreed. Also agree with the sociopathy comment. Everyone I have seen make partner in biglaw frequently ruined peoples nights/weekends regularly in order to slightly over deliver on client expectations. Like, making your junior associates stay up night after night with only a couple of hours of sleep so that you can get your deal closed a teensy bit faster than the other associates you are competing with, so you can impress the clients/partners and make partner (solely for your own benefit and little to no benefit to juniors) seems sociopathic to me. But, this is what most people who make partner do (at least in my experience).

accidental anon

[phan]

Really surprised neurosis hasn't been mentioned yet.

[bodylikeatwizzler]

Very motivated by money.

In addition to being motivated by money, also motivated by moving up the ladder (social and career), and willing to grind it out for it.

Doesn't take things too seriously.

Very good mental and physical endurance to get through rough periods of grinding it out.

Genuine interest in industry they service.

Likes clients they work with and wants to go out of way to make them happy - someone that enjoys helping others and seeing others succeed.

Is a people person and motivated by client contact, but willing to go days of isolation without depression.

Deep thinker.

Hard worker.

Enjoys the process of working - finds some sort of comfort,stability and relaxation in work.

Realizes big law is just a job (still willing to make it a priority and work hard as ever at it, but also able to unplug from work-mode in limited down time).

Is able to unwind without going into self-destructive habits (like for instance after a very rough week, destressing by just spending time with friends or family, or going on a hike, rather than drinking yourself to death). This goes hand in hand with endurance to survive in the biglaw marathon.

These are some traits off the top of my head re people that are not miserable on the corporate/M&A side.

This person is a fantasist who romanticizes things to make them seem interesting.

Juxtapose this list with
• The things lawyers actually do day to day, bureaucratic tasks which require constant attention to detail for hours on end. It's tedious and endless paper pushing work. Many would consider it torture, whether you're in lit or transactions.
• The actual social status of lawyers, which is very low outside of forums like this.
• The money lawyers make, which is not much on a hourly basis. A partner would make a fool of themself if they bragged about their income among truly wealthy people, never mind an associate.
• The true "deep thoughts" of the world. Lawyers don't make or invent anything of significance to society. For example, you might document and litigate over the patent, but the "deep thinker" was the one who invented it. You file various paperwork for the company, but you didn't create it. Lawyers do the bureaucratic work in society that most economists call "rent seeking."

Romanticizing things is a great motivational tool and it works in the short term. But it will take an incredible amount of mental energy to romanticize your job day in, day out, for weeks, months, and years on end. Best to accept it for what it is from the start, lower your expectations and realize that the world doesn't hand out happiness equally or fairly.

[objctnyrhnr]

I am a happy mid level associate litigator who really likes the fight, the issues, the chess moves, etc.

I do however often find myself wondering how it is enjoyable for those who aren’t both 1) litigators and also 2) people who enjoy those things mentioned above.

[Hutz_and_Goodman]

-type A but recognizing that it is impossible to avoid any error ever (and getting it right is essential with what actually matters—ie the law and arguments)
-genuinely care about the cases and want to fight to win
-not needing praise/affirmation much (if I know I did a good job it’s great to hear it but often people are too busy)
-other than rainmaker partners, introverts have an advantage over extroverts bc the vast majority of the work can be done solo
-time management (people who are able to work 8.5 out of 9.5 much happier than people who work 8.5 out of 12 hours—the difference between being at the office 9:30-7 or 9:30-9:30)

[CanadianWolf]

Any person who enjoys viewing life in 6 minute increments.

[CovidLurker]

I am very happy being a biglaw attorney at a NYC V5. Here are the few traits that I think have helped me.

Self-awareness: I realize that I have absolutely no skills, talents or abilities that set me apart from the pack. I'm of only moderate intelligence, I'm willing to work only moderately hard and I can stomach only a moderate amount of risk . However, I still want to be paid a lot of money, even though I have none of the qualities that warrant being paid such a high salary. Thus, I'm pretty grateful that I'm making as much money as I am, and it doesn't bother me that I work a lot of hours. In my eyes, I have the attitude of "I can't believe these clowns are paying me this much money to do this shit lol".

Perspective: I grew up middle class, went to public school and am the son of immigrants. Most of my high school friends live mundane lives and many are struggling, working 50 hours a week in stressful jobs for $40-60k/year with a family. For most of my childhood, we never had a household income over 100K and my parents still managed to raise and send two kids to college by sacrificing basically all comforts in life. I'm keenly aware of how much worse my life could be and that currently I'm at the best position I've ever been in. I'm grateful that biglaw gives me flexibility in hours, and I never feel financial insecurity. We are in the very rare 1% of America that lives a pretty decadent lifestyle.

Relaxed/Don't give a shit: I want to do a good job, and I work hard to deliver the best product I can. But, if I fall short or make a mistake - I really don't give a shit. You're just not that important - most of the time you're an afterthought to the Company/Bank you're working for. If you don't meet a deadline or don't draft a doc perfectly, no one will die, no one will get fired, no one will lose their home etc. The worst possible outcome is some megacompany will lose a little bit of money or waste a little money in extra legal fees. I'm not going to lose sleep over this.

Self-worth: Now that I do interviews/recruiting - I can see that so many of these kids entire self-worth is tied into their careers/prestige. This forum doesn't help. First, let me say this - if you're a biglaw transactional attorney, you'll never impress me. All that means is you took the absolute safest route in life with a very well trodden path laid out for you. You were either not talented or brave enough to try and go after what you truly wanted in life.

So, working at Cravath over DLA Piper doesn't make you a better or sexier person. I'd rather work 2000 hours at DLA Piper than 3000 hours at Cravath any day, and I really don't give a fuck what some random lawyer thinks of me for it. Most of my self-worth is derived from my hobbies, my family and my network of friends. I've never gone on a date or met a friend and talked about my job beyond a quick sentence when asked what I do. I really think that when people tie their entire being down to their job, they get very miserable when things don't go their way or they mess up at work.

I'll end my soapbox by saying that many of the negative traits I've portrayed about myself (no talent, lack of risk appetite, not giving a shit etc.) are probably traits that you don't want to lean into if you want to be uber successful.

[Anonymous User]

-time management (people who are able to work 8.5 out of 9.5 much happier than people who work 8.5 out of 12 hours—the difference between being at the office 9:30-7 or 9:30-9:30)

and with that... I'm getting back to work.