Summer Classes 2021 Edition Forum

[Anonymous User]

Milbank NY (70):
Columbia (7)
Georgetown (7)
Fordham (6)
NYU (5)
Michigan (5)
Vanderbilt (5)
Harvard (4)
Cornell (4)
Virginia (3)
Northwestern (3)
Texas (3)
UChicago (2)
Berkeley (2)
Duke (2)
GWU (2)
Penn (1)
UCLA (1)
WashU (1)
Osgoode (1)
Howard (1)
UToronto (1)
BC (1)
Albany (1)
Tulane (1)
Pace (1)

[Anonymous User]

Where the hell is Texas? Think I count 5 or 6 placements ITT.

[Anonymous User]

Where the hell is Texas? Think I count 5 or 6 placements ITT.

...there's only been like 5 firms posted

(That being said, I heard that Texas didn't do so hot this year in OCI)

[Anonymous User]

Where the hell is Texas? Think I count 5 or 6 placements ITT.

...there's only been like 5 firms posted

(That being said, I heard that Texas didn't do so hot this year in OCI)

Related. Latham Houston (14 2Ls and 2 1Ls):

Harvard 1
Chicago 1
Penn 1
Virginia 1
Duke 2
Cornell 1
Georgetown 1
Texas 1
WashU 1
BYU 1
Houston 4
Wake Forest 1

[Anonymous User]

Milbank NY (70):
Columbia (7)
Georgetown (7)
Fordham (6)
NYU (5)
Michigan (5)
Vanderbilt (5)
Harvard (4)
Cornell (4)
Virginia (3)
Northwestern (3)
Texas (3)
UChicago (2)
Berkeley (2)
Duke (2)
GWU (2)
Penn (1)
UCLA (1)
WashU (1)
Osgoode (1)
Howard (1)
UToronto (1)
BC (1)
Albany (1)
Tulane (1)
Pace (1)

This is a huge increase. Per NALP their classes in NY have usually hovered around 45-50.

[Anonymous User]

Where the hell is Texas? Think I count 5 or 6 placements ITT.

...there's only been like 5 firms posted

(That being said, I heard that Texas didn't do so hot this year in OCI)

Related. Latham Houston (14 2Ls and 2 1Ls):

Harvard 1
Chicago 1
Penn 1
Virginia 1
Duke 2
Cornell 1
Georgetown 1
Texas 1
WashU 1
BYU 1
Houston 4
Wake Forest 1

for what it's worth re: Texas, I know of at least one person (me) at UT who had an offer at Latham Houston and turned them down.

[Anonymous User]

Some of the class size increases this year are actually shocking. It's pretty clear that not mass-mailing every NY office was a huge strategic mistake that I'll regret for a while. That said, I haven't seen one placement from my T20 at any of the posted firms so far, so maybe I shouldn't feel so bad.

[Wild Card]

I would say V10 NY lit either cut size or, at least, was far more selective than transactional from T6.

That's always been the case. Every single NYU grad at Skadden from my class ended up in coprorate.

[Anonymous User]

Weil NY (including 1Ls and 2Ls) (100 students)

Cornell (10)
Harvard (9)
Fordham (9)
NYU (8)
Duke (7)
Northwestern (7)
Columbia (6)
Michigan (5)
Penn (5)
Cardozo (5)
Georgetown (4)
New York Law School (4)
UVA (2)
Brooklyn (2)
Osgoode (2)
Toronto Law (2)
Stanford (1)
Texas (1)
Emory (1)
GW (1)
Notre Dame (1)
St. John's (1)
BU (1)
Tulane (1)
Buffalo (1)
Washington and Lee (1)
Howard (1)
Vermont (1)

[Anonymous User]

Fordham does really well.

[Anonymous User]

Fordham does really well.

The top 40% at Fordham does really well, and it's a solid option for people interested in NY BL, but it doesn't reveal what happens to the rest of the class

[Anonymous User]

Where the hell is Texas? Think I count 5 or 6 placements ITT.

...there's only been like 5 firms posted

(That being said, I heard that Texas didn't do so hot this year in OCI)

tbf most of the lists ITT are NY or DC, was UTA ever known for placing sizable amount of students into NY/DC? I thought most students there just wanna stay in Texas.

[Anonymous User]

Fordham does really well.

The top 40% at Fordham does really well, and it's a solid option for people interested in NY BL, but it doesn't reveal what happens to the rest of the class

Anecdotal of course, but in my class of 2020 social circle, I was pleasantly surprised with how well the median and below median crowd did at OCI.

[Anonymous User]

NYLS seems to be rocking it too!

[Anonymous User]

Weil NY (including 1Ls and 2Ls) (100 students)

Cornell (10)
...

Wow that is a BIG chunk of a tiny law school class. Isn’t Cornell sub-200 JDs per year?

I guess it’s not all that different than DPW taking 20+ from NYU or CLS, though.

[Anonymous User]

Weil NY (including 1Ls and 2Ls) (100 students)

Cornell (10)
...

Wow that is a BIG chunk of a tiny law school class. Isn’t Cornell sub-200 JDs per year?

I guess it’s not all that different than DPW taking 20+ from NYU or CLS, though.

This class has, according to ABA 509, 194 students. So yeah, that's a huge chunk of that class.

[Anonymous User]

Some of the class size increases this year are actually shocking. It's pretty clear that not mass-mailing every NY office was a huge strategic mistake that I'll regret for a while. That said, I haven't seen one placement from my T20 at any of the posted firms so far, so maybe I shouldn't feel so bad.

Yea looking at the classes that have come out, the T20 didn't do great. Not a ton of UT and WashU placements.

[Anonymous User]

Some of the class size increases this year are actually shocking. It's pretty clear that not mass-mailing every NY office was a huge strategic mistake that I'll regret for a while. That said, I haven't seen one placement from my T20 at any of the posted firms so far, so maybe I shouldn't feel so bad.

Yea looking at the classes that have come out, the T20 didn't do great. Not a ton of UT and WashU placements.

As someone mentioned, most of these are NY/DC offices. That’s why it looks like Fordham is overperforming.

The Boston office of the V50 firm I am at has like a dozen BC and BU students. I’m sure Texas firms would have huge UT numbers.

[Anonymous User]

Weird, but Tulane seems to be performing pretty well relative to lower T1 schools (especially now that it dropped to 60 from its usual place in the 40-50 range). Surprised with NY and not its TX placement.

[Anonymous User]

Latham NY (76)

GULC (11)
Fordham (10)
U Penn (8)
NYU (8)
Northwestern(5)
Columbia Law (5)
Harvard (4)
Texas (3)
Stanford (3)
Cornell Law (3)
Cal (3)
Michigan (2)
U Chicago (1)
Duke (1)
UCLA (1)
Vanderbilt (1)
Notre Dame (1)
USC (1)
Howard (1)
Emory (1)
Boston University (1)
Brooklyn Law (1)
St. John’s (1)

[FutureisFintech]

Howard Law placed 43/133 (32%) into firms 250+/FedClerks for c/o 2019, and according to this thread is placing 18 students into Davis Polk, Hogan Lovells and Paul Weiss NY alone this summer? Do these firms regularly hire a big chunk of Howard Biglaw summers or something?

Someone come remind me about this when c/o 2022 employment stats are published. I promise to laugh a lot at GULC (53% in 2019) if Howard outplaced them.

I mean...firms are pretty transparently trying to diversify, for some obvious reasons. Being top third of Howard is probably a tremendous place to be in current OCIs.

Re: GULC, I’d love to laugh about that too. Nothing against GULCers but I have personal reasons for wanting to see GULC eat shit.

This is true, especially after the shit PW got after their all-white and mostly male partner class not too long ago (NYT reported). Great to see the firms finally taking more initiatives on diversity issues

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/27/us/p ... -firm.html

I could see firms dipping below median at Howard this year (and in future years).

Howard LSAT median: 151

Howard's placement is 100% b/c of diversity. (Not to say the students aren't qualified frankly given the low level of intellectual rigor that BL really has). But this Howard circlejerk is pointless given that anyone who isn't a URM won't get BL from a school like Howard or its peers.

LMAO, what a condescending comment. The AG for NY is a Howard Law alum; frankly, the list of successful alumni from the law school is exhaustive. As a person of color and someone who knows multiple people who go to Howard Law, many students from that school go on to be very successful in the business/legal worlds. For you to suggest, that the placement is "100%" because of diversity is intellectually lazy and honestly racist. Your mindset is what's wrong with BL and the legal field in general.

[Anonymous User]

Howard Law placed 43/133 (32%) into firms 250+/FedClerks for c/o 2019, and according to this thread is placing 18 students into Davis Polk, Hogan Lovells and Paul Weiss NY alone this summer? Do these firms regularly hire a big chunk of Howard Biglaw summers or something?

Someone come remind me about this when c/o 2022 employment stats are published. I promise to laugh a lot at GULC (53% in 2019) if Howard outplaced them.

I mean...firms are pretty transparently trying to diversify, for some obvious reasons. Being top third of Howard is probably a tremendous place to be in current OCIs.

Re: GULC, I’d love to laugh about that too. Nothing against GULCers but I have personal reasons for wanting to see GULC eat shit.

This is true, especially after the shit PW got after their all-white and mostly male partner class not too long ago (NYT reported). Great to see the firms finally taking more initiatives on diversity issues

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/27/us/p ... -firm.html

I could see firms dipping below median at Howard this year (and in future years).

Howard LSAT median: 151

Howard's placement is 100% b/c of diversity. (Not to say the students aren't qualified frankly given the low level of intellectual rigor that BL really has). But this Howard circlejerk is pointless given that anyone who isn't a URM won't get BL from a school like Howard or its peers.

LMAO, what a condescending comment. The AG for NY is a Howard Law alum; frankly, the list of successful alumni from the law school is exhaustive. As a person of color and someone who knows multiple people who go to Howard Law, many students from that school go on to be very successful in the business/legal worlds. For you to suggest, that the placement is "100%" because of diversity is intellectually lazy and honestly racist. Your mindset is what's wrong with BL and the legal field in general.

Howard Law is ranked #91 on USWNR. Its peer schools include: University of New Hampshire, Illinois Institute of Technology, and Rutgers Camden. Not a single BL firm is pulling from any of these other schools. I'm very confident students at any of these schools could make it in BL given the low level of intellectual rigor. Why then, do law firms only take from Howard and not its peers?

[Anonymous User]

Kirkland & Ellis Houston - 35 total

• UTexas - 12
  Harvard - 6
  Northwestern - 6
  Virginia - 2
  Chicago - 2
  Tulane - 2
  Yale - 1
  Georgetown - 1
  BYU - 1
  Houston - 1
  Minnesota - 1

Kirkland & Ellis Dallas - 17 total

• UTexas - 6
  Virginia - 3
  Harvard - 2
  SMU - 2
  Columbia - 1
  Berkeley - 1
  Northwestern - 1
  Georgetown - 1

[Anonymous User]

Howard’s 2020 lsat scores: 150-156
Howard’s 2020 gpa scores: 3.13-3.58
Howard’s biglaw percentage: 30%

Other schools with ~30% biglaw: UIUC(156-164, 3.31-3.79), Emory (166 lsat median, 3.8 gpa median), notre dame (161-168 lsat, 3.34-3.88 gpa), George Washington university (166 median lsat, 3.76 gpa)...I could go on but you get the point.

Seeing that Howard is in the same geographic location as GW, there is no other reasonable explanation why it’s employment statistics would be more similar to GW than a statistically peer school in DC such as the Catholic University of America (lsat 152-158, gpa 3.21-3.61, biglaw 13.5%).

I don’t think the above commenter was saying that there are not good lawyers that come from non-t-14 law schools, but to try to pretend like strong employment statistics from Howard are for any reason other than the diversity of the student body is ridiculous. And your willingness to claim racism rather than to grapple with that reality is what’s wrong with the legal profession and why so many people no longer listen when someone immediately claims “racism” rather than face what’s so obviously true.

[FutureisFintech]

I mean...firms are pretty transparently trying to diversify, for some obvious reasons. Being top third of Howard is probably a tremendous place to be in current OCIs.

Re: GULC, I’d love to laugh about that too. Nothing against GULCers but I have personal reasons for wanting to see GULC eat shit.

This is true, especially after the shit PW got after their all-white and mostly male partner class not too long ago (NYT reported). Great to see the firms finally taking more initiatives on diversity issues

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/27/us/p ... -firm.html

I could see firms dipping below median at Howard this year (and in future years).

Howard LSAT median: 151

Howard's placement is 100% b/c of diversity. (Not to say the students aren't qualified frankly given the low level of intellectual rigor that BL really has). But this Howard circlejerk is pointless given that anyone who isn't a URM won't get BL from a school like Howard or its peers.

LMAO, what a condescending comment. The AG for NY is a Howard Law alum; frankly, the list of successful alumni from the law school is exhaustive. As a person of color and someone who knows multiple people who go to Howard Law, many students from that school go on to be very successful in the business/legal worlds. For you to suggest, that the placement is "100%" because of diversity is intellectually lazy and honestly racist. Your mindset is what's wrong with BL and the legal field in general.

Howard Law is ranked #91 on USWNR. Its peer schools include: University of New Hampshire, Illinois Institute of Technology, and Rutgers Camden. Not a single BL firm is pulling from any of these other schools. I'm very confident students at any of these schools could make it in BL given the low level of intellectual rigor. Why then, do law firms only take from Howard and not its peers?

#1 One of the first things they teach you in law school/academia in general is to cite to reputable sources...when USWNR rankings include things like "size of law library" and "number of seats in law library" it's hard to take them seriously. Am i expected to believe that Tulane is materially better than Pepperdine, because of a number??? Is Texas superior to Vanderbilt because its ranked higher???

#2 You're committing a logical fallacy within your reasoning, based on your adherence to these archaic rankings. Rather than assume (incorrectly I'm sure, as I'd almost guarantee you could find a handful of students from these schools who DO get BigLaw), that people don't get BL from these schools because of their ranks, the question becomes what factor about Howard makes firms recruit there? You assumed its because of diversity; if that were true, the minorities at the other tiered schools you listed would also be recruited at similar rates and have similar outcomes. But guess what- that also isn't true.

#3 Back to your comment about "peer schools". If Howard students are getting recruited to BL/Fed Clerkships at rates that rival some top 30 schools, why does a UNSWR news ranking define what its peer schools are, rather than the outcomes of students from that school? The answer is it doesn't; for whatever reason, you've decided that USWNR is the end all be all. Based on the assumptions you've made so far, I'd assume you're the type of person who says things like V-15, V-20, V-25, V-37 (and thinks there's a difference.)

#4 Intellectual rigor. Do you work in BigLaw? If so, what year are you? What practice group? The reason I ask is because "intellectual rigor" is a subjective term. It doesn't take a genius to do doc review; how about issuing regulatory guidance to an international client issuing ELNs, in multiple markets, as part of an international market expansion strategy? To some people, the second issue might be a breeze but to others it might be conceptually challenging. Not all work is the same, and to assume otherwise implies intellectual laziness.