Is White & Case an elite firm?

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Is White & Case an elite firm?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:12 pm

Seems like they got a lot of (deserved) hate in 2008, but their annual revenue and growth has been impressive since then. Are they an elite firm? Considering working there.

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Re: Is White & Case an elite firm?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:39 pm

FWIW I am an employee at a V10 and this is my perspective: The answer is yes and no. White & Case generates billions of dollars of revenue annually and compared to 95% of other firms, is by every definition an "elite firm." However, compared to absolute cream of the crop firms (WLRK, Cravath, etc.) and even "1B" firms (Skadden, Simpson Thacher, etc.), there is a disparity. Not a large enough disparity to not accept an offer (i.e., W&C is objectively a great firm), but certainly a large enough disparity that I would take an offer from one of the firms I've mentioned above over White & Case. Hope this helps.

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Re: Is White & Case an elite firm?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:21 pm

Depends on your definition of elite. It’s not in that top band of CSM, S&C, STB, DPW, Cleary, Debevoise, Skadden etc...but it’s still a good firm

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Re: Is White & Case an elite firm?

Post by ExpOriental » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:23 pm

The cream, etc.

Putting aside the sarcasm, OP, you need to come up with better questions than "is X firm 'elite'" for people to give you decent responses.
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:39 pm
FWIW I am an employee at a V10 and this is my perspective: The answer is yes and no. White & Case generates billions of dollars of revenue annually and compared to 95% of other firms, is by every definition an "elite firm." However, compared to absolute cream of the crop firms (WLRK, Cravath, etc.) and even "1B" firms (Skadden, Simpson Thacher, etc.), there is a disparity. Not a large enough disparity to not accept an offer (i.e., W&C is objectively a great firm), but certainly a large enough disparity that I would take an offer from one of the firms I've mentioned above over White & Case. Hope this helps.
Cravath goes in "1B" with Skadden and STB. Or at least, it doesn't get listed alongside WLRK.

inb4 that totally not upset Cravath associate from the other thread tells me how jealous I am.

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Re: Is White & Case an elite firm?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:28 pm

ExpOriental wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:23 pm
The cream, etc.

Putting aside the sarcasm, OP, you need to come up with better questions than "is X firm 'elite'" for people to give you decent responses.
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:39 pm
FWIW I am an employee at a V10 and this is my perspective: The answer is yes and no. White & Case generates billions of dollars of revenue annually and compared to 95% of other firms, is by every definition an "elite firm." However, compared to absolute cream of the crop firms (WLRK, Cravath, etc.) and even "1B" firms (Skadden, Simpson Thacher, etc.), there is a disparity. Not a large enough disparity to not accept an offer (i.e., W&C is objectively a great firm), but certainly a large enough disparity that I would take an offer from one of the firms I've mentioned above over White & Case. Hope this helps.
Cravath goes in "1B" with Skadden and STB. Or at least, it doesn't get listed alongside WLRK.

inb4 that totally not upset Cravath associate from the other thread tells me how jealous I am.
I mean WLRK corporate is obviously in its own tier but I would say S&C/CSM have their own cache in NY above other top tier firms for a variety of dumb reasons. Who knows if that matters at all but I've seen how partners talk about their peers

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Re: Is White & Case an elite firm?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:44 pm

Is it elite? I mean, W&C logo facing out ...

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Re: Is White & Case an elite firm?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:39 pm
FWIW I am an employee at a V10 and this is my perspective: The answer is yes and no. White & Case generates billions of dollars of revenue annually and compared to 95% of other firms, is by every definition an "elite firm." However, compared to absolute cream of the crop firms (WLRK, Cravath, etc.) and even "1B" firms (Skadden, Simpson Thacher, etc.), there is a disparity. Not a large enough disparity to not accept an offer (i.e., W&C is objectively a great firm), but certainly a large enough disparity that I would take an offer from one of the firms I've mentioned above over White & Case. Hope this helps.
What's 1B?

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Re: Is White & Case an elite firm?

Post by aegor » Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:02 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:22 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:39 pm
FWIW I am an employee at a V10 and this is my perspective: The answer is yes and no. White & Case generates billions of dollars of revenue annually and compared to 95% of other firms, is by every definition an "elite firm." However, compared to absolute cream of the crop firms (WLRK, Cravath, etc.) and even "1B" firms (Skadden, Simpson Thacher, etc.), there is a disparity. Not a large enough disparity to not accept an offer (i.e., W&C is objectively a great firm), but certainly a large enough disparity that I would take an offer from one of the firms I've mentioned above over White & Case. Hope this helps.
What's 1B?
Presumably Tier 1.B rather than the top tier, 1.A.

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Re: Is White & Case an elite firm?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:28 pm

Not really. Some of its deal practices are respectable, but it would never be considered in the same breath as a Debevoise.

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Re: Is White & Case an elite firm?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:31 pm

It might make the 1C ranking, but definitely not the 1B or 1A band (lol...)

Tip for all these posters: Go to vault and then go to regional rankings. This is the closest you'll get to "prestige" based rankings. Better yet, go to Chambers and/or do real research on the firms to figure it out yourself.

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Re: Is White & Case an elite firm?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:28 pm
Not really. Some of its deal practices are respectable, but it would never be considered in the same breath as a Debevoise.
No dog in this fight but lol at all the Debevoise self promotion in this thread. White & Case is every bit as good as Debevoise, if not better, and I think that is evidenced by the random insecure posts of Debevoise's employees on this thread/this website. Your firm is band three, White & Case is band four.

The cream certainly does not go to Debevoise.

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Re: Is White & Case an elite firm?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:50 pm

To use a metaphor I saw on this site a while ago, I would compare White & Case/firms of similar ilk to that of a Duke or UVA law school. Generally impressive, yes. Layman would probably view those schools as "elite" (whatever that means). But no one, not even a layman, is going to seriously compare Duke or UVA to Harvard/Yale/Stanford.

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Re: Is White & Case an elite firm?

Post by avenuem » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:03 pm

So many bad posts ITT.

White & Case is elite in the sense that it's biglaw. That's it. That's all.

Cravath might not pay as much as WLRK, but it's the next most prestigious of the V100, if not the most prestigious. There's a reason it's always at number one on a prestige ranking.

There's a question whether Skadden is actually elite anymore and belongs in the V10, but I'll save that for another thread because I worry V11 Weil posters will misinterpret that to mean they belong in the V10 more than, say, Milbank.

And it's pretty embarassing that only two posters ITT realize that 1B = Band 1. I'm not sure why the first person to use 1B didn't just write B1 (maybe they had a stroke mid-post). But obviously the poster before me realized what was intended.

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Re: Is White & Case an elite firm?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:11 pm

avenuem wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:03 pm
So many bad posts ITT.

White & Case is elite in the sense that it's biglaw. That's it. That's all.

Cravath might not pay as much as WLRK, but it's the next most prestigious of the V100, if not the most prestigious. There's a reason it's always at number one on a prestige ranking.

There's a question whether Skadden is actually elite anymore and belongs in the V10, but I'll save that for another thread because I worry V11 Weil posters will misinterpret that to mean they belong in the V10 more than, say, Milbank.

And it's pretty embarassing that only two posters ITT realize that 1B = Band 1. I'm not sure why the first person to use 1B didn't just write B1 (maybe they had a stroke mid-post). But obviously the poster before me realized what was intended.
Exactly. You could compare W&C to a Skadden, but nobody would talk about W&C in the same tier as a Cravath or a Debevoise.

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Re: Is White & Case an elite firm?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:11 pm
avenuem wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:03 pm
So many bad posts ITT.

White & Case is elite in the sense that it's biglaw. That's it. That's all.

Cravath might not pay as much as WLRK, but it's the next most prestigious of the V100, if not the most prestigious. There's a reason it's always at number one on a prestige ranking.

There's a question whether Skadden is actually elite anymore and belongs in the V10, but I'll save that for another thread because I worry V11 Weil posters will misinterpret that to mean they belong in the V10 more than, say, Milbank.

And it's pretty embarassing that only two posters ITT realize that 1B = Band 1. I'm not sure why the first person to use 1B didn't just write B1 (maybe they had a stroke mid-post). But obviously the poster before me realized what was intended.
Exactly. You could compare W&C to a Skadden, but nobody would talk about W&C in the same tier as a Cravath or a Debevoise.
LMAO more Debevoise self-promotion. Good god.

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Re: Is White & Case an elite firm?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:14 pm

Side note: I literally thought White & Case was a legal research competitor to lexis/westlaw throughout my entire 1L.

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Re: Is White & Case an elite firm?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:11 pm
avenuem wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:03 pm
So many bad posts ITT.

White & Case is elite in the sense that it's biglaw. That's it. That's all.

Cravath might not pay as much as WLRK, but it's the next most prestigious of the V100, if not the most prestigious. There's a reason it's always at number one on a prestige ranking.

There's a question whether Skadden is actually elite anymore and belongs in the V10, but I'll save that for another thread because I worry V11 Weil posters will misinterpret that to mean they belong in the V10 more than, say, Milbank.

And it's pretty embarassing that only two posters ITT realize that 1B = Band 1. I'm not sure why the first person to use 1B didn't just write B1 (maybe they had a stroke mid-post). But obviously the poster before me realized what was intended.
Exactly. You could compare W&C to a Skadden, but nobody would talk about W&C in the same tier as a Cravath or a Debevoise.
Genuinely curious, has Skadden's rep taken a dive? I assumed it was sort of WLRK → S&C/CSM -→ Skadden anyway but I still think its a much better option than W&C.

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Re: Is White & Case an elite firm?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:26 pm

Genuinely curious, has Skadden's rep taken a dive? I assumed it was sort of WLRK → S&C/CSM -→ Skadden anyway but I still think its a much better option than W&C.
From what I can tell, the critiques have been largely based on cultural deficiencies (sweatshop, etc.). I don't have much insight into their deals/cases/clients, but I haven't heard anything about that aspect of the firm sliding (although I'm sure others will be able to offer better insight into this). I agree that Skadden is definitely a way better option than W&C.

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Re: Is White & Case an elite firm?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:21 pm
Depends on your definition of elite. It’s not in that top band of CSM, S&C, STB, DPW, Cleary, Debevoise, Skadden etc...but it’s still a good firm
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:21 pm
it would never be considered in the same breath as a Debevoise
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:21 pm
nobody would talk about W&C in the same tier as ... a Debevoise
Hello there Current Debevoise Associate.

On topic - W&C is a great firm, especially if you want BK, international arbitration, antitrust, or project matters (solar, LNG, wind, etc.). It's not a CSM/S&C-level M&A giant, but if you're interested in one of their toptier practice groups it's a great place to go.

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Re: Is White & Case an elite firm?

Post by dkny4422 » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:51 pm

White & Case > Debevoise.

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Re: Is White & Case an elite firm?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:57 pm

avenuem wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:03 pm
So many bad posts ITT.

White & Case is elite in the sense that it's biglaw. That's it. That's all.

Cravath might not pay as much as WLRK, but it's the next most prestigious of the V100, if not the most prestigious. There's a reason it's always at number one on a prestige ranking.

There's a question whether Skadden is actually elite anymore and belongs in the V10, but I'll save that for another thread because I worry V11 Weil posters will misinterpret that to mean they belong in the V10 more than, say, Milbank.

And it's pretty embarassing that only two posters ITT realize that 1B = Band 1. I'm not sure why the first person to use 1B didn't just write B1 (maybe they had a stroke mid-post). But obviously the poster before me realized what was intended.
Ironically, this is a very bad post. You should clarify the context when you make a blanket statement like "it's the next most prestigious of the V100." The idea that Cravath is more prestigious than Williams & Connolly, Susman, or Kellogg Hansen (all in the V100) is the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard. Even if you're talking about New York corporate specifically, your blanket statement is unwarranted. S&C, DPW and so on are pretty close. If you talking about lit in any context, you're just wildly off base.

This sounds like either a faux gunner 2L who only looks at Vault, a Cravath groupie, a Cravath associate, or someone who is just very uninformed.

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Re: Is White & Case an elite firm?

Post by Wubbles » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:19 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:14 pm
Side note: I literally thought White & Case was a legal research competitor to lexis/westlaw throughout my entire 1L.
Probably because of Casetext I assume? Which is a legal research competitor

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Re: Is White & Case an elite firm?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:24 pm

Can someone settle whether W&C is White & Case, Williams & Connolly, or both? I see it being used by White & Case lawyers all the time but on this forum see it for both (but mostly Williams).

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Re: Is White & Case an elite firm?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:57 pm
avenuem wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:03 pm
So many bad posts ITT.

White & Case is elite in the sense that it's biglaw. That's it. That's all.

Cravath might not pay as much as WLRK, but it's the next most prestigious of the V100, if not the most prestigious. There's a reason it's always at number one on a prestige ranking.

There's a question whether Skadden is actually elite anymore and belongs in the V10, but I'll save that for another thread because I worry V11 Weil posters will misinterpret that to mean they belong in the V10 more than, say, Milbank.

And it's pretty embarassing that only two posters ITT realize that 1B = Band 1. I'm not sure why the first person to use 1B didn't just write B1 (maybe they had a stroke mid-post). But obviously the poster before me realized what was intended.
Ironically, this is a very bad post. You should clarify the context when you make a blanket statement like "it's the next most prestigious of the V100." The idea that Cravath is more prestigious than Williams & Connolly, Susman, or Kellogg Hansen (all in the V100) is the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard. Even if you're talking about New York corporate specifically, your blanket statement is unwarranted. S&C, DPW and so on are pretty close. If you talking about lit in any context, you're just wildly off base.

This sounds like either a faux gunner 2L who only looks at Vault, a Cravath groupie, a Cravath associate, or someone who is just very uninformed.
It's a v bad post but I still think CSM/S&C/PW litigation is a pretty top outcome if you're NY-based since you're probably going to clerk then lateral to a boutique anyway.

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Re: Is White & Case an elite firm?

Post by ExpOriental » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:57 pm
avenuem wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:03 pm
So many bad posts ITT.

White & Case is elite in the sense that it's biglaw. That's it. That's all.

Cravath might not pay as much as WLRK, but it's the next most prestigious of the V100, if not the most prestigious. There's a reason it's always at number one on a prestige ranking.

There's a question whether Skadden is actually elite anymore and belongs in the V10, but I'll save that for another thread because I worry V11 Weil posters will misinterpret that to mean they belong in the V10 more than, say, Milbank.

And it's pretty embarassing that only two posters ITT realize that 1B = Band 1. I'm not sure why the first person to use 1B didn't just write B1 (maybe they had a stroke mid-post). But obviously the poster before me realized what was intended.
Ironically, this is a very bad post. You should clarify the context when you make a blanket statement like "it's the next most prestigious of the V100." The idea that Cravath is more prestigious than Williams & Connolly, Susman, or Kellogg Hansen (all in the V100) is the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard. Even if you're talking about New York corporate specifically, your blanket statement is unwarranted. S&C, DPW and so on are pretty close. If you talking about lit in any context, you're just wildly off base.

This sounds like either a faux gunner 2L who only looks at Vault, a Cravath groupie, a Cravath associate, or someone who is just very uninformed.
Decent chance it's that 1L who has always dreamed of Cravath (truly a TLS all-timer that flew under the radar), though it's probably not:

viewtopic.php?p=10462879#p10462879

Regardless, yes, that post is hilariously bad.

Apparently "there's a reason Cravath is always at number 1 in [presumably Vault]," yet that same ranking (which apparently can be trusted to accurately assess Cravath) wildly overstates Skadden's prestige.

Of course this whole discussion is asinine, but speaking on the subject with such misplaced authority is just delightful.

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

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