Crazy for considering Cravath over WLRK?

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mazel

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Crazy for considering Cravath over WLRK?

Post by mazel » Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:02 pm

For my goals, I feel like I can't really go wrong with either. I feel I might like the people at Cravath better, but I also know more of them there and they did more to hard recruit. I buy into the rotation system at Cravath, but the idea of doing deals work at Wachtell is also appealing to me. I do worry about the hours, but I imagine that is a concern at either. I could see myself staying in Big Law. It seems like Wachtell is too good an opportunity to pass up. I would appreciate any thoughts.

Reese1

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Re: Crazy for considering Cravath over WLRK?

Post by Reese1 » Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:51 pm

mazel wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:02 pm
For my goals, I feel like I can't really go wrong with either. I feel I might like the people at Cravath better, but I also know more of them there and they did more to hard recruit. I buy into the rotation system at Cravath, but the idea of doing deals work at Wachtell is also appealing to me. I do worry about the hours, but I imagine that is a concern at either. I could see myself staying in Big Law. It seems like Wachtell is too good an opportunity to pass up. I would appreciate any thoughts.
I would take Wachtell. Cravath already works about normal biglaw hours but pays the standard biglaw rate. You'll work more at WLRK, but at least you'll get paid more for it. Even if you are a bit scared by the WLRK hours, and imagine yourself staying in biglaw, you can always lateral from WLRK to another top firm if you end up not liking it.

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Re: Crazy for considering Cravath over WLRK?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:52 pm

the compensation gap is too much if you are otherwise generally wishy washy between the two

biglaw is brutal and wachtell is like the apex of such a workload, but you can make 2x as much comp a year there and cravath is also known for being soul crushing.. so yea

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Re: Crazy for considering Cravath over WLRK?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:11 pm

Only reason to take Cravath is if you knew you'd make Partner, and you don't. Pick Wachtell. Better prestige, better pay, better experience. Only VERY marginal hours difference if any.

jotarokujo

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Re: Crazy for considering Cravath over WLRK?

Post by jotarokujo » Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:11 pm
Only VERY marginal hours difference if any.
do you mean to say that cravath already works significantly more than normal biglaw, so wachtell is only a bit more than that?

or do you mean that cravath works normal biglaw, and wachtell only works a bit more than normal biglaw?

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Re: Crazy for considering Cravath over WLRK?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:25 pm

jotarokujo wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:18 pm
or do you mean that cravath works normal biglaw, and wachtell only works a bit more than normal biglaw?
Cravath is probably on the high end of normal biglaw. Wachtell is noticeably more than normal biglaw for huge bumps in pay and prestige.

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Re: Crazy for considering Cravath over WLRK?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:40 pm

jotarokujo wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:18 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:11 pm
Only VERY marginal hours difference if any.
do you mean to say that cravath already works significantly more than normal biglaw, so wachtell is only a bit more than that?

or do you mean that cravath works normal biglaw, and wachtell only works a bit more than normal biglaw?
I mean that Cravath M&A will work you extremely hard to the point where the marginal hours at Wachtell will be worth the much bigger bonus.

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Re: Crazy for considering Cravath over WLRK?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:31 pm

I have a friend who did this. I don't think he regrets it, but everyone he knows thought he made a huge mistake, it's a lot more money to work at a better and harder-to-crack firm.

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Re: Crazy for considering Cravath over WLRK?

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:02 pm

I turned down Wachtell for another firm but it was because of market and/or practice area. I think if I had wanted to do corporate in NYC it would've been a no brainer; for lit, it would also probably be a no brainer as between these two, but if Susman, Kellogg, or other above market boutiques where you will get better experience are in the mix, that would be a different question.

Think of it this way: your life is going to be spent almost completely on work things at Cravath, whereas there's no question it will be as close to 100% on work as possible at WLRK; BUT at WLRK you can stash away so much more cash that financial independence can come much, much sooner. Also you can always lateral to another great firm if you don't like WLRK

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Re: Crazy for considering Cravath over WLRK?

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:16 am

You should take WLRK just for the money. I’m at Cravath: it’s a brutal grind and I make just as much as my classmates working 500+ hours less per year. If you’re going to sell your soul, might as well do it to the highest bidder.

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Re: Crazy for considering Cravath over WLRK?

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:53 am

Yes. Why would you work 97% as hard for 50% of the money?

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Re: Crazy for considering Cravath over WLRK?

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:01 pm

mazel wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:02 pm
For my goals, I feel like I can't really go wrong with either. I feel I might like the people at Cravath better, but I also know more of them there and they did more to hard recruit. I buy into the rotation system at Cravath, but the idea of doing deals work at Wachtell is also appealing to me. I do worry about the hours, but I imagine that is a concern at either. I could see myself staying in Big Law. It seems like Wachtell is too good an opportunity to pass up. I would appreciate any thoughts.
Maybe unpopular but I don't think so. First, I think the hours v. comp decision being framed here is inaccurate. Cravath will work you hard, yes, but nowhere near Wachtell. Cravath is somewhere between 2200-2600 for most. Wachtell is somewhere between 3000-3400 for most. That's a huge difference! The marginal life/health value of those hours keeps going up after 2500 too. Yes, Cravath pays only market - for above market hours. BUT, the Wacthell bonuses have not lately been as high as many have suggested on here. I have a buddy there, and they've recently been 50-60% of base, not 100%. I, personally, would rather have the extra time and less money - market is already a ton of cash, and you're in it for the long-run. Burning out more quickly is leaving a career of money on the table; don't be short-termist. Unless you're in M&A also, Cravath name rec and alumni base is better, and the cultures are quite different - worth considering.

Note: I went to HLS and work in DC, so this is second-hand from buddies working at both. But I did get offers from both during EIP and went to callbacks and offer stuff.

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Re: Crazy for considering Cravath over WLRK?

Post by jsnow212 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:01 pm
mazel wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:02 pm
For my goals, I feel like I can't really go wrong with either. I feel I might like the people at Cravath better, but I also know more of them there and they did more to hard recruit. I buy into the rotation system at Cravath, but the idea of doing deals work at Wachtell is also appealing to me. I do worry about the hours, but I imagine that is a concern at either. I could see myself staying in Big Law. It seems like Wachtell is too good an opportunity to pass up. I would appreciate any thoughts.
Maybe unpopular but I don't think so. First, I think the hours v. comp decision being framed here is inaccurate. Cravath will work you hard, yes, but nowhere near Wachtell. Cravath is somewhere between 2200-2600 for most. Wachtell is somewhere between 3000-3400 for most. That's a huge difference! The marginal life/health value of those hours keeps going up after 2500 too. Yes, Cravath pays only market - for above market hours. BUT, the Wacthell bonuses have not lately been as high as many have suggested on here. I have a buddy there, and they've recently been 50-60% of base, not 100%. I, personally, would rather have the extra time and less money - market is already a ton of cash, and you're in it for the long-run. Burning out more quickly is leaving a career of money on the table; don't be short-termist. Unless you're in M&A also, Cravath name rec and alumni base is better, and the cultures are quite different - worth considering.

Note: I went to HLS and work in DC, so this is second-hand from buddies working at both. But I did get offers from both during EIP and went to callbacks and offer stuff.
Uh, yeah. This isn't true. I'd just disregard this anon 2L's entire post.

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BrainsyK

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Re: Crazy for considering Cravath over WLRK?

Post by BrainsyK » Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:37 pm

Yes. How is this even close to a question.

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Re: Crazy for considering Cravath over WLRK?

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:01 pm
mazel wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:02 pm
For my goals, I feel like I can't really go wrong with either. I feel I might like the people at Cravath better, but I also know more of them there and they did more to hard recruit. I buy into the rotation system at Cravath, but the idea of doing deals work at Wachtell is also appealing to me. I do worry about the hours, but I imagine that is a concern at either. I could see myself staying in Big Law. It seems like Wachtell is too good an opportunity to pass up. I would appreciate any thoughts.
Maybe unpopular but I don't think so. First, I think the hours v. comp decision being framed here is inaccurate. Cravath will work you hard, yes, but nowhere near Wachtell. Cravath is somewhere between 2200-2600 for most. Wachtell is somewhere between 3000-3400 for most. That's a huge difference! The marginal life/health value of those hours keeps going up after 2500 too. Yes, Cravath pays only market - for above market hours. BUT, the Wacthell bonuses have not lately been as high as many have suggested on here. I have a buddy there, and they've recently been 50-60% of base, not 100%. I, personally, would rather have the extra time and less money - market is already a ton of cash, and you're in it for the long-run. Burning out more quickly is leaving a career of money on the table; don't be short-termist. Unless you're in M&A also, Cravath name rec and alumni base is better, and the cultures are quite different - worth considering.

Note: I went to HLS and work in DC, so this is second-hand from buddies working at both. But I did get offers from both during EIP and went to callbacks and offer stuff.
This isn't true. The WLRK bonuses were 100% base in 2020, even with the pandemic.

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