How hard is it to get a 1L SA? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Question in the title. Around top 20% grades after first semester at CCN. Certainly didn't expect to get a V10 or anything, but thought I'd get at least a few screeners in the V50 - or V100 lol. It's just been complete silence from the vast majority of firms + a bunch of rejections.

Just how competitive are these 1L positions, say for a firm in the 40-60 range?? I'm an over-represented minority, btw. Thanks!

[wldecisions]

It's hard to put a number. Easier if you are an underrepresented minority and/or if you're looking for patent prosecution. But for the most part, unless you're literal top of class, it's a numbers game -- just send in as many applications and see what sticks.

Separately, the 1L SA recruitment timeline this cycle is even less predictable than usual, so be patient until you hear one way or another. (Of course, some will still ghost you, unfortunately.)

[Anonymous User]

Hard. Harder if you're not black or latinx.

[Anonymous User]

I had a 4.0 at a lower T14 and ended up getting a 1L SA at a V10. Out of the few 1L SA interviews I received, most were V10s. Many of the lower ranked vault firms completely ghosted or rejected me. So I don't think V50-100 firms are any less difficult to obtain.

[Anonymous User]

Similar stats at CCN, sent in 20ish applications and got one callback, and one offer. Dont loose hope, it's all about odds.

[Anonymous User]

Texas market is big on 1L SA positions if that’s something you would consider.

[Anonymous User]

FWIW I had a 4.0 at CCN and did not even bother applying because I was sure I would not get anything (majority in every demographic category).

The money is nice, but CCN have summer funding for PI people, so 1L summer is also a chance to explore a cool PI opportunity (USAO, judicial internships, advocacy organizations). You could even try a split if you wanted.

[Anonymous User]

It is pretty difficult. I submitted everywhere I could to try to make it happen. I found an old reply I posted in 2019 with my offer stats for 1L summer jobs:

150+ applications submitted (mostly firms, 8 in-house positions), T30-ish school, >Top 5%, URM

Ended up with 17 interview requests, I've bolded the callbacks:

V50 (Atl), V50 (Chi), AmLaw 100 (Mid-Atlantic), V100 (Minneapolis), V50 (No Cal), V50 (DC), AmLaw 150 (No Cal), V10 (No Cal), V30 (DC), AmLaw 100 (Mid-Atlantic), NLJ 200 (Southeast), NLJ 300 (No Cal), V150 Midsize (No Cal), Plaintiff''s firm (No Cal), V150 Midsize (DC), V100 (LA), AmLaw 200 (South Florida)

Offers: V10 (No Cal), V150 Midsize (DC), V100 (LA)
4 post CB dings, 2 applications withdrawn post-CB after offer accepted, 1 application withdrawn post-screener after offer accepted

Also: 4 in-house screeners/screener requests, 2 CBs (2 offers, 2 applications withdrawn after screener request) ; and 1 paid non-profit screener

[Anonymous User]

I had a 3.8 at a regional Texas firm curved to a 3.0. From my estimate I was somewhere between rank 5-10. I'm a white male and I got 1 interview that I didn't end up getting while I watched 15-20 girls in my class get multiple interviews and offers. I don't think i knew a single non-engineering white male that got a job 1L, while multiple females outside the top 10% ended up with jobs. It's just a numbers game in which women and minorities have a massive advantage. But it's not like every female gets a 1L job either.

[Anonymous User]

It is pretty difficult. I submitted everywhere I could to try to make it happen. I found an old reply I posted in 2019 with my offer stats for 1L summer jobs:

150+ applications submitted (mostly firms, 8 in-house positions), T30-ish school, >Top 5%, URM

Ended up with 17 interview requests, I've bolded the callbacks:

V50 (Atl), V50 (Chi), AmLaw 100 (Mid-Atlantic), V100 (Minneapolis), V50 (No Cal), V50 (DC), AmLaw 150 (No Cal), V10 (No Cal), V30 (DC), AmLaw 100 (Mid-Atlantic), NLJ 200 (Southeast), NLJ 300 (No Cal), V150 Midsize (No Cal), Plaintiff''s firm (No Cal), V150 Midsize (DC), V100 (LA), AmLaw 200 (South Florida)

Offers: V10 (No Cal), V150 Midsize (DC), V100 (LA)
4 post CB dings, 2 applications withdrawn post-CB after offer accepted, 1 application withdrawn post-screener after offer accepted

Also: 4 in-house screeners/screener requests, 2 CBs (2 offers, 2 applications withdrawn after screener request) ; and 1 paid non-profit screener

Thanks for sharing this. Yikes, I definitely did not apply to that many firms lol. I only submitted maybe 40ish apps Guess I'll have to temper my expectations for a 1L SA and ramp up my PI apps...

[Anonymous User]

I had a 3.8 at a regional Texas firm curved to a 3.0. From my estimate I was somewhere between rank 5-10. I'm a white male and I got 1 interview that I didn't end up getting while I watched 15-20 girls in my class get multiple interviews and offers. I don't think i knew a single non-engineering white male that got a job 1L, while multiple females outside the top 10% ended up with jobs. It's just a numbers game in which women and minorities have a massive advantage. But it's not like every female gets a 1L job either.

Ahh, I see. Male and ORM here, and it's not looking too great so far LOL. I think my demographic is on par with Caucasian males when it comes to being rejected for "diversity" positions...

[Anonymous User]

I had a 3.8 at a regional Texas firm curved to a 3.0. From my estimate I was somewhere between rank 5-10. I'm a white male and I got 1 interview that I didn't end up getting while I watched 15-20 girls in my class get multiple interviews and offers. I don't think i knew a single non-engineering white male that got a job 1L, while multiple females outside the top 10% ended up with jobs. It's just a numbers game in which women and minorities have a massive advantage. But it's not like every female gets a 1L job either.

Wow regional Texas firms giving out GPAs now

[Anonymous User]

I had a 3.8 at a regional Texas firm curved to a 3.0. From my estimate I was somewhere between rank 5-10. I'm a white male and I got 1 interview that I didn't end up getting while I watched 15-20 girls in my class get multiple interviews and offers. I don't think i knew a single non-engineering white male that got a job 1L, while multiple females outside the top 10% ended up with jobs. It's just a numbers game in which women and minorities have a massive advantage. But it's not like every female gets a 1L job either.

Ahh, I see. Male and ORM here, and it's not looking too great so far LOL. I think my demographic is on par with Caucasian males when it comes to being rejected for "diversity" positions...

ORM can have luck with diversity positions if they are LGBTQ.

[Anonymous User]

For what it's worth, at my V10 all of our 1L summer associates that I've seen have been URM, about 50/50 men and women. I've been part of the selection process for laterals and standard 2L OCI recruitment, but not the 1Ls, which leads to believe it's more an HR driven process. I do see resumes/transcripts for 1Ls when they come in to start, though, and grades are all over the place. It's all but explicitly stated that the 1L recruitment process is a diversity recruitment push, so I'd tend to say that anyone's success applying is substantially a product of whatever aspirational demographics the firm is aiming for, at the moment you happen to apply, and less a reflection of whatever your grades, school, or interviewing skills happen to be. Not trying to say having a good resume doesn't help, but definitely don't let it get to you if you don't get one of these few spots, the process is irrational and unpredictable.

[Anonymous User]

It's more attainable if you have a connection with a smaller market where you're interested in working. E.g. if you're from Indiana and go to a T14, you have a good shot at a 1L SA with Barnes or Faegre. Jones Day takes non-diversity 1Ls in many of its secondary market offices I believe.

[Anonymous User]

For what it's worth, at my V10 all of our 1L summer associates that I've seen have been URM, about 50/50 men and women. I've been part of the selection process for laterals and standard 2L OCI recruitment, but not the 1Ls, which leads to believe it's more an HR driven process. I do see resumes/transcripts for 1Ls when they come in to start, though, and grades are all over the place. It's all but explicitly stated that the 1L recruitment process is a diversity recruitment push, so I'd tend to say that anyone's success applying is substantially a product of whatever aspirational demographics the firm is aiming for, at the moment you happen to apply, and less a reflection of whatever your grades, school, or interviewing skills happen to be. Not trying to say having a good resume doesn't help, but definitely don't let it get to you if you don't get one of these few spots, the process is irrational and unpredictable.

The purpose of 1L recruiting is to lock down talent that will be more difficult later (or at least to counter other firms doing the same and robbing you of it a year later). Diversity is certainly one of those rare things, because the numbers of diverse lawyers at top schools is quite small and if the firms want to staff them, they need to compete. But it’s not just diversity - they will try to nab people who are patent Bar eligible, children of clients or other well-connected individuals, older students with significant work experience, and so on. Whatever is both (a) desirable and (b) in short supply.

There’s also a bit of a prisoner’s dilemma - it’s probably best for all the firms if none of them pick up these rare 1Ls early, so that none of them have to waste $36k on a 1L. But once some firms do it, others need to follow them to compete. This is why places like Texas have a decent number of 1L spots (still very few, but better than other markets). For whatever reason, firms started doing it, and their competitors were getting screwed out of talent so they felt they had to do the same. This is the explanation I got from the head recruiter at my Texas firm. Good for students, probably bad for the firms, but they’re stuck now.