Paul Weiss NY v. Latham Watkins NY Forum

[Anonymous User]

Interested in Corp work in general. Think I will like M&A PE and maybe capital market. In terms of practice areas, which one is better? Also do you have any intel re culture? Both NY office.

Which one has a larger corporate team in New York? I know PW has 350ish corporate attorneys on their website but Latham does not have a general corporate practice that I can just select. I like PW's New York presence but the flexibility of LW is also really appealing to me. It really is a toss up. Please HELP!

[Anonymous User]

Briefly:

1. Latham is a bit more balanced as a corporate team. A few lateral partners do public M&A, long-standing relationships with mid-market PE funds for which they're number one/number two counsel, some bigger ticket PE work, plus really good (mainly underwriter/bank) side capital markets and leveraged finance teams.

Paul Weiss corporate doesn't have much by way of capital markets or lender-side debt work, but public M&A is well ahead (up there with Cravath/DPW/Kirkland/Skadden, thanks to Barshay's heft), there's a focus on PE (Apollo is a major rather than a mid-market fund - broader swath of work required), and they're probably ahead on fund formation in New York. (At time of writing, neither Latham nor PW is a big hitter in fund formation, at the level of Simpson/Debevoise/Kirkland/Ropes. This helps to cement bigger PE relationships.)

If you think you might have an interest in project finance, Latham is well ahead. If you think you might be keen on restructuring work, Paul Weiss is well ahead. Industry-wise, Paul Weiss has more pharma and entertainment work. Latham has some great energy relationships. Latham is closer to investment and lending/arranging banks.

2. Culturally, Paul Weiss corporate is known to be a tough place. This was the case before Barshay's arrival; if anything, I think this has amplified since. (Apollo is a notoriously difficult PE client, worse than Blackstone/TPG.) Latham treats its home-growns pretty well (if you can get past the open plan offices), as long as you do hours and can be chatty with people - it's probably a bit more social.

Both firms have good and less good quality people. This is a function, in corporate, of deal volume, complexity, and size. You shouldn't have a problem getting this at either place, at least in a meaningful way. Paul Weiss doesn't have a bonus-hours requirement - this means less upside if you do kill yourself, though.

3. Exit-wise: maybe PW is slightly ahead in NY at this point - it's a longer-standing NY firm, so a better-known name in corporates (and is highly regarded for the public deals it's doing). Latham is ahead everywhere else. Paul Weiss is building up in Northern California, but the focus seems to be on litigation first.

Generally, you can't go wrong with either choice. If you want optionality outside New York and a slightly more decent culture, Latham makes sense. If you fancy yourself as able to handle the biggest deals in a crucible-like environment (which, to be honest, you'll get in both places, but you might sit in Barshay's team more quickly at PW and so be able to focus sooner), Paul Weiss offers some mega-deals that Latham NY probably doesn't do in the same volumes just now.

[Anonymous User]

Can’t offer any intel sorry. But FWIW, I liked PW corporate’s vibe during my CB and 2nd looks — it has undertones of “established NY firm,” but also a kind of energy and dynamism that I felt was lacking at DPW, S&C, etc. Didn’t end up accepting the offer though.

N.B. some of PW’s groups have a ton of laterals (bc fast growth) which can lead to more inconsistent culture (not necessarily good or bad).

[Anonymous User]

Can’t offer any intel sorry. But FWIW, I liked PW corporate’s vibe during my CB and 2nd looks — it has undertones of “established NY firm,” but also a kind of energy and dynamism that I felt was lacking at DPW, S&C, etc. Didn’t end up accepting the offer though.

N.B. some of PW’s groups have a ton of laterals (bc fast growth) which can lead to more inconsistent culture (not necessarily good or bad).

thats interesting - would you mind sharing which firm you end up choosing instead?

[Anonymous User]

Can’t offer any intel sorry. But FWIW, I liked PW corporate’s vibe during my CB and 2nd looks — it has undertones of “established NY firm,” but also a kind of energy and dynamism that I felt was lacking at DPW, S&C, etc. Didn’t end up accepting the offer though.

N.B. some of PW’s groups have a ton of laterals (bc fast growth) which can lead to more inconsistent culture (not necessarily good or bad).

thats interesting - would you mind sharing which firm you end up choosing instead?

Davis Polk, lol. Interested in FIG + capital markets so it made sense. GL with your decision! Cheers.

[Anonymous User]

I am in the same boat - deciding between PW and LW (both NY). I'm leaning corporate and want to try M&A, finance, and funds formation. I know that PW has the rotation program and I can try all these groups as a junior. I actually like changing from unassigned to rotation because it may be easier to develop relationships within the group. The downside would be I'm stuck there for 6-8 months if I realized I don't like the practice after 1 month. For LW, my impression is that it has a more robust finance practice nation wide (not sure if this is also true for NY). Also, I want to try some cross-border work and think LW may have more opportunities. I have reached out to HR and arranged calls with their attorneys, but any additional insight on the finance practice and cross-border aspects would be super helpful!

[Anonymous User]

For what its worth, I was in your same shoes just a week ago, but primarily debated between Simpson / Latham NY / Skadden NY. Given my interests in corporate work (M&A/cap markets/banking), I ended up picking Latham NY for the following reasons -

M&A - Latham does a significant amount of PE M&A and public M&A. There is a significant push towards public M&A at Latham NY - this is evidenced by the recent hires from Shearman Sterling. They are also growing their SPAC practice.

Cap Markets / Banking - Latham is Band 1 in Chambers, and they lead in all metrics with regards to this area (same tier as DPW and Simpson). For cap markets, they are often on the large IPOs

Rotation vs. Open Assignment - I am a bit older (and had a previous a consulting/finance career). As such, I actually liked Latham's open assignment system more because it allows you to specialize faster if you identify your practice area of interest. Rotation system means that even though you found what you wanted to do within the first 6 to 8 months, you are forced to spend the next 6 months to a 1yr rotating in a group that you may not be interested in.

Client Types - If you pick PW/white shoe-esque firms, your clients are predominantly traditional financial wallstreet bank clients (which can be good or bad depending on your interests). Latham has a more diversified set of clients (including wallstreet banks). If you're interested in the "new finance", such as fintech and bitcoin, Latham is a top tier player in the area as well.

TLDR: Both options are fine, just pick one that caters to your particular situation more. If you are unsure that you only want to do M&A (which most people aren't - even ex bankers who go to law school are not sure they want to do M&A because its completely different from the finance side of things) then I'd highly recommend Latham if I were in your shoes. If you want M&A for sure, then PW!

[Anonymous User]

For what its worth, I was in your same shoes just a week ago, but primarily debated between Simpson / Latham NY / Sullivan Cromwell NY. Given my interests in corporate work (M&A/cap markets/banking), I ended up picking Latham NY for the following reasons -

M&A - Latham does a significant amount of PE M&A and public M&A. There is a significant push towards public M&A at Latham NY - this is evidenced by the recent hires from Shearman Sterling. They are also growing their SPAC practice.

Cap Markets / Banking - Latham is Band 1 in Chambers, and they lead in all metrics with regards to this area (same tier as DPW and Simpson). For cap markets, they are often on the large IPOs

Rotation vs. Open Assignment - I am a bit older (and had a previous a consulting/finance career). As such, I actually liked Latham's open assignment system more because it allows you to specialize faster if you identify your practice area of interest. Rotation system means that even though you found what you wanted to do within the first 6 to 8 months, you are forced to spend the next 6 months to a 1yr rotating in a group that you may not be interested in.

Client Types - If you pick PW/white shoe-esque firms, your clients are predominantly traditional financial wallstreet bank clients (which can be good or bad depending on your interests). Latham has a more diversified set of clients (including wallstreet banks). If you're interested in the "new finance", such as fintech and bitcoin, Latham is a top tier player in the area as well.

TLDR: Both options are fine, just pick one that caters to your particular situation more. If you are unsure that you only want to do M&A (which most people aren't - even ex bankers who go to law school are not sure they want to do M&A because its completely different from the finance side of things) then I'd highly recommend Latham if I were in your shoes. If you want M&A for sure, then PW!

Thank you for sharing! This is very helpful!

[Anonymous User]

For what its worth, I was in your same shoes just a week ago, but primarily debated between Simpson / Latham NY / Sullivan Cromwell NY. Given my interests in corporate work (M&A/cap markets/banking), I ended up picking Latham NY for the following reasons -

M&A - Latham does a significant amount of PE M&A and public M&A. There is a significant push towards public M&A at Latham NY - this is evidenced by the recent hires from Shearman Sterling. They are also growing their SPAC practice.

Cap Markets / Banking - Latham is Band 1 in Chambers, and they lead in all metrics with regards to this area (same tier as DPW and Simpson). For cap markets, they are often on the large IPOs

Rotation vs. Open Assignment - I am a bit older (and had a previous a consulting/finance career). As such, I actually liked Latham's open assignment system more because it allows you to specialize faster if you identify your practice area of interest. Rotation system means that even though you found what you wanted to do within the first 6 to 8 months, you are forced to spend the next 6 months to a 1yr rotating in a group that you may not be interested in.

Client Types - If you pick PW/white shoe-esque firms, your clients are predominantly traditional financial wallstreet bank clients (which can be good or bad depending on your interests). Latham has a more diversified set of clients (including wallstreet banks). If you're interested in the "new finance", such as fintech and bitcoin, Latham is a top tier player in the area as well.

TLDR: Both options are fine, just pick one that caters to your particular situation more. If you are unsure that you only want to do M&A (which most people aren't - even ex bankers who go to law school are not sure they want to do M&A because its completely different from the finance side of things) then I'd highly recommend Latham if I were in your shoes. If you want M&A for sure, then PW!

Thanks! OP here. I am also considering Latham more favorably now since I have some interest in Emerging Companies and VCs, in addition to M&A and PE work. I don't think PW does too much of that.

I think PW has an edge in public M&A, since they got Barshay. I don't know much about PE/Private M&A work, they are similarly ranked in Chambers - seems like PW has a more stable big shot client apollo in New York, whereas Latham's PE is a mix of bunch of mid-market funds (their key PE client the Carlyle Group is with the DC office, not New York, but I think there are plenty of cross-office work based on the deal description from their website, some NY associates were also involved in those deals).

Another non-factor is I heard Latham has moved to a new place - does that mean they can finally let first years sit inside the offices as opposed to huddle in the cubicles??

[Anonymous User]

Briefly:

2. Culturally, Paul Weiss corporate is known to be a tough place. This was the case before Barshay's arrival; if anything, I think this has amplified since. (Apollo is a notoriously difficult PE client, worse than Blackstone/TPG.) Latham treats its home-growns pretty well (if you can get past the open plan offices), as long as you do hours and can be chatty with people - it's probably a bit more social.

Can you elaborate on which aspects of Paul Weiss corporate that make it a tough place? Also considering Paul Weiss.

[Anonymous User]

For what its worth, I was in your same shoes just a week ago, but primarily debated between Simpson / Latham NY / Sullivan Cromwell NY. Given my interests in corporate work (M&A/cap markets/banking), I ended up picking Latham NY for the following reasons -

M&A - Latham does a significant amount of PE M&A and public M&A. There is a significant push towards public M&A at Latham NY - this is evidenced by the recent hires from Shearman Sterling. They are also growing their SPAC practice.

Cap Markets / Banking - Latham is Band 1 in Chambers, and they lead in all metrics with regards to this area (same tier as DPW and Simpson). For cap markets, they are often on the large IPOs

Rotation vs. Open Assignment - I am a bit older (and had a previous a consulting/finance career). As such, I actually liked Latham's open assignment system more because it allows you to specialize faster if you identify your practice area of interest. Rotation system means that even though you found what you wanted to do within the first 6 to 8 months, you are forced to spend the next 6 months to a 1yr rotating in a group that you may not be interested in.

Client Types - If you pick PW/white shoe-esque firms, your clients are predominantly traditional financial wallstreet bank clients (which can be good or bad depending on your interests). Latham has a more diversified set of clients (including wallstreet banks). If you're interested in the "new finance", such as fintech and bitcoin, Latham is a top tier player in the area as well.

TLDR: Both options are fine, just pick one that caters to your particular situation more. If you are unsure that you only want to do M&A (which most people aren't - even ex bankers who go to law school are not sure they want to do M&A because its completely different from the finance side of things) then I'd highly recommend Latham if I were in your shoes. If you want M&A for sure, then PW!

Thanks! OP here. I am also considering Latham more favorably now since I have some interest in Emerging Companies and VCs, in addition to M&A and PE work. I don't think PW does too much of that.

I think PW has an edge in public M&A, since they got Barshay. I don't know much about PE/Private M&A work, they are similarly ranked in Chambers - seems like PW has a more stable big shot client apollo in New York, whereas Latham's PE is a mix of bunch of mid-market funds (their key PE client the Carlyle Group is with the DC office, not New York, but I think there are plenty of cross-office work based on the deal description from their website, some NY associates were also involved in those deals).

Another non-factor is I heard Latham has moved to a new place - does that mean they can finally let first years sit inside the offices as opposed to huddle in the cubicles??

I have heard that Latham's new office is at 1271 Sixth Avenue (Rockefeller Center). They will be doing an open floor plan - not sure what this exactly means but the office will be brand new at least

[Anonymous User]

For what its worth, I was in your same shoes just a week ago, but primarily debated between Simpson / Latham NY / Sullivan Cromwell NY. Given my interests in corporate work (M&A/cap markets/banking), I ended up picking Latham NY for the following reasons -

M&A - Latham does a significant amount of PE M&A and public M&A. There is a significant push towards public M&A at Latham NY - this is evidenced by the recent hires from Shearman Sterling. They are also growing their SPAC practice.

Cap Markets / Banking - Latham is Band 1 in Chambers, and they lead in all metrics with regards to this area (same tier as DPW and Simpson). For cap markets, they are often on the large IPOs

Rotation vs. Open Assignment - I am a bit older (and had a previous a consulting/finance career). As such, I actually liked Latham's open assignment system more because it allows you to specialize faster if you identify your practice area of interest. Rotation system means that even though you found what you wanted to do within the first 6 to 8 months, you are forced to spend the next 6 months to a 1yr rotating in a group that you may not be interested in.

Client Types - If you pick PW/white shoe-esque firms, your clients are predominantly traditional financial wallstreet bank clients (which can be good or bad depending on your interests). Latham has a more diversified set of clients (including wallstreet banks). If you're interested in the "new finance", such as fintech and bitcoin, Latham is a top tier player in the area as well.

TLDR: Both options are fine, just pick one that caters to your particular situation more. If you are unsure that you only want to do M&A (which most people aren't - even ex bankers who go to law school are not sure they want to do M&A because its completely different from the finance side of things) then I'd highly recommend Latham if I were in your shoes. If you want M&A for sure, then PW!

Thanks! OP here. I am also considering Latham more favorably now since I have some interest in Emerging Companies and VCs, in addition to M&A and PE work. I don't think PW does too much of that.

I think PW has an edge in public M&A, since they got Barshay. I don't know much about PE/Private M&A work, they are similarly ranked in Chambers - seems like PW has a more stable big shot client apollo in New York, whereas Latham's PE is a mix of bunch of mid-market funds (their key PE client the Carlyle Group is with the DC office, not New York, but I think there are plenty of cross-office work based on the deal description from their website, some NY associates were also involved in those deals).

Another non-factor is I heard Latham has moved to a new place - does that mean they can finally let first years sit inside the offices as opposed to huddle in the cubicles??

I have heard that Latham's new office is at 1271 Sixth Avenue (Rockefeller Center). They will be doing an open floor plan - not sure what this exactly means but the office will be brand new at least

jesus... what's the point of open floor plan?? that's so stupid, and honestly sounds terrible

[Anonymous User]

For what its worth, I was in your same shoes just a week ago, but primarily debated between Simpson / Latham NY / Sullivan Cromwell NY. Given my interests in corporate work (M&A/cap markets/banking), I ended up picking Latham NY for the following reasons -

M&A - Latham does a significant amount of PE M&A and public M&A. There is a significant push towards public M&A at Latham NY - this is evidenced by the recent hires from Shearman Sterling. They are also growing their SPAC practice.

Cap Markets / Banking - Latham is Band 1 in Chambers, and they lead in all metrics with regards to this area (same tier as DPW and Simpson). For cap markets, they are often on the large IPOs

Rotation vs. Open Assignment - I am a bit older (and had a previous a consulting/finance career). As such, I actually liked Latham's open assignment system more because it allows you to specialize faster if you identify your practice area of interest. Rotation system means that even though you found what you wanted to do within the first 6 to 8 months, you are forced to spend the next 6 months to a 1yr rotating in a group that you may not be interested in.

Client Types - If you pick PW/white shoe-esque firms, your clients are predominantly traditional financial wallstreet bank clients (which can be good or bad depending on your interests). Latham has a more diversified set of clients (including wallstreet banks). If you're interested in the "new finance", such as fintech and bitcoin, Latham is a top tier player in the area as well.

TLDR: Both options are fine, just pick one that caters to your particular situation more. If you are unsure that you only want to do M&A (which most people aren't - even ex bankers who go to law school are not sure they want to do M&A because its completely different from the finance side of things) then I'd highly recommend Latham if I were in your shoes. If you want M&A for sure, then PW!

Thanks! OP here. I am also considering Latham more favorably now since I have some interest in Emerging Companies and VCs, in addition to M&A and PE work. I don't think PW does too much of that.

I think PW has an edge in public M&A, since they got Barshay. I don't know much about PE/Private M&A work, they are similarly ranked in Chambers - seems like PW has a more stable big shot client apollo in New York, whereas Latham's PE is a mix of bunch of mid-market funds (their key PE client the Carlyle Group is with the DC office, not New York, but I think there are plenty of cross-office work based on the deal description from their website, some NY associates were also involved in those deals).

Another non-factor is I heard Latham has moved to a new place - does that mean they can finally let first years sit inside the offices as opposed to huddle in the cubicles??

I have heard that Latham's new office is at 1271 Sixth Avenue (Rockefeller Center). They will be doing an open floor plan - not sure what this exactly means but the office will be brand new at least

jesus... what's the point of open floor plan?? that's so stupid, and honestly sounds terrible

Yeah I am with you on that part, maybe they are trying to bring a trading floor look. I have no idea honestly (and I don't think anyone does at this point hahahhaha)

[Anonymous User]

For what its worth, I was in your same shoes just a week ago, but primarily debated between Simpson / Latham NY / Sullivan Cromwell NY. Given my interests in corporate work (M&A/cap markets/banking), I ended up picking Latham NY for the following reasons -

M&A - Latham does a significant amount of PE M&A and public M&A. There is a significant push towards public M&A at Latham NY - this is evidenced by the recent hires from Shearman Sterling. They are also growing their SPAC practice.

Cap Markets / Banking - Latham is Band 1 in Chambers, and they lead in all metrics with regards to this area (same tier as DPW and Simpson). For cap markets, they are often on the large IPOs

Rotation vs. Open Assignment - I am a bit older (and had a previous a consulting/finance career). As such, I actually liked Latham's open assignment system more because it allows you to specialize faster if you identify your practice area of interest. Rotation system means that even though you found what you wanted to do within the first 6 to 8 months, you are forced to spend the next 6 months to a 1yr rotating in a group that you may not be interested in.

Client Types - If you pick PW/white shoe-esque firms, your clients are predominantly traditional financial wallstreet bank clients (which can be good or bad depending on your interests). Latham has a more diversified set of clients (including wallstreet banks). If you're interested in the "new finance", such as fintech and bitcoin, Latham is a top tier player in the area as well.

TLDR: Both options are fine, just pick one that caters to your particular situation more. If you are unsure that you only want to do M&A (which most people aren't - even ex bankers who go to law school are not sure they want to do M&A because its completely different from the finance side of things) then I'd highly recommend Latham if I were in your shoes. If you want M&A for sure, then PW!

Thanks! OP here. I am also considering Latham more favorably now since I have some interest in Emerging Companies and VCs, in addition to M&A and PE work. I don't think PW does too much of that.

I think PW has an edge in public M&A, since they got Barshay. I don't know much about PE/Private M&A work, they are similarly ranked in Chambers - seems like PW has a more stable big shot client apollo in New York, whereas Latham's PE is a mix of bunch of mid-market funds (their key PE client the Carlyle Group is with the DC office, not New York, but I think there are plenty of cross-office work based on the deal description from their website, some NY associates were also involved in those deals).

Another non-factor is I heard Latham has moved to a new place - does that mean they can finally let first years sit inside the offices as opposed to huddle in the cubicles??

I have heard that Latham's new office is at 1271 Sixth Avenue (Rockefeller Center). They will be doing an open floor plan - not sure what this exactly means but the office will be brand new at least

does that mean they are going to sit first years in cubicles in the center for partners/ associates to pick ...? lol sounds like a red flag