Gibson VS. Latham NY - Please help me decide Forum

[Anonymous User]

Interested in transactional work but not completely sure - I know Gibson is lit heavy but have been really liking everyone I've spoken to thus far and the seemingly laidback/flexible culture. Been thinking about this for a while and would really appreciate any advice/anything anyone has heard about these firms in terms of culture, hours, stereotypes, anything would be helpful. Thank you in advance!

[Anonymous User]

Anonymous because I'm a Latham associate. I know that we have a bad rep on this board, but I honestly love it here. Culturally - I think everyone is really nice and laid-back (no yellers/assholes/etc.) I've gotten lucky and met some really great mentors that have brought me along, invested in me and genuinely care about my development/well-being.

As with any big office, there's sub-cultures/variations depending on groups and teams. However, I think coming in as an unassigned is a huge advantage here because it gives you 18 months to "find you ppl" so to speak. I don't know anyone at Gibson NY, but based on the experiences of many of my other friends at other NY V10's, I am very happy with my choice. While many of them are absolutely miserable or now out of biglaw, I'm hoping to stay as long as I can.

I'm happy to talk in more detail either through private message here or hop on a phone call if you think it'll help you in your decision. Ultimately, go where you think you will be the happiest. The marginal differences in name/prestige between these firms is not worth being miserable and burning out in a year or two. I know that's probably not helpful advice as a law student, since most of these firms probably look the same to you at this point, but I think some questions that can really help you differentiate them:

"What's the firms policy on facetime?"
"When you're supervising juniors, how do you typically prefer to give feedback/teach them substantive matters? Has your approached changed due to WFH?"
"Do you work with one team consistently or is it always a new set of faces each matter? Does this create any conflict in working styles (in either direction, learning new working styles/habits with each new team or having to potentially work with someone you don't gel with constantly) and how do you handle such differences?"

[Anonymous User]

Anonymous because I'm a Latham associate. I know that we have a bad rep on this board, but I honestly love it here. Culturally - I think everyone is really nice and laid-back (no yellers/assholes/etc.) I've gotten lucky and met some really great mentors that have brought me along, invested in me and genuinely care about my development/well-being.

As with any big office, there's sub-cultures/variations depending on groups and teams. However, I think coming in as an unassigned is a huge advantage here because it gives you 18 months to "find you ppl" so to speak. I don't know anyone at Gibson NY, but based on the experiences of many of my other friends at other NY V10's, I am very happy with my choice. While many of them are absolutely miserable or now out of biglaw, I'm hoping to stay as long as I can.

I'm happy to talk in more detail either through private message here or hop on a phone call if you think it'll help you in your decision. Ultimately, go where you think you will be the happiest. The marginal differences in name/prestige between these firms is not worth being miserable and burning out in a year or two. I know that's probably not helpful advice as a law student, since most of these firms probably look the same to you at this point, but I think some questions that can really help you differentiate them:

"What's the firms policy on facetime?"
"When you're supervising juniors, how do you typically prefer to give feedback/teach them substantive matters? Has your approached changed due to WFH?"
"Do you work with one team consistently or is it always a new set of faces each matter? Does this create any conflict in working styles (in either direction, learning new working styles/habits with each new team or having to potentially work with someone you don't gel with constantly) and how do you handle such differences?"

Hi, thank you so much for your answer - this is incredibly insightful! I would really love to speak further with you through whichever you prefer whether private message or a phone call. Not really often on here so I don't know how I would go about private messaging you on this forum but if you have any insight that would be great. Thank you so much again.

[Anonymous User]

Interested in transactional work but not completely sure - I know Gibson is lit heavy but have been really liking everyone I've spoken to thus far and the seemingly laidback/flexible culture. Been thinking about this for a while and would really appreciate any advice/anything anyone has heard about these firms in terms of culture, hours, stereotypes, anything would be helpful. Thank you in advance!

I loved the people at both places but went with Gibson because I'm almost certain I want to do litigation, and it seems to be one of the only NY offices where if you want to stay away from securities litigation you can, and can focus on other things (like appellate lit in a NY office instead of just DC!). If I wanted to do transactional, that may have swayed towards Latham. Also, I really liked the free market system. You'll work hella long hours at every firm that likes making money but, to me, the free market system adds a teeny bit of control to BigLaw life. In terms of hours, the Gibson lit associates I talked to said that they didn't feel any pressure to bill beyond the soft-target. On the other hand, I've heard that some transactional groups have crazy high hours. Don't know how true this is but I've heard that Latham has very high hours for both groups. In any event, hours will vary a ton even within a firm depending on practice group/partner/etc. It was a very tough decision for sure but that was sort of my thought process. Congrats either way!

[Anonymous User]

Anonymous because I'm a Latham associate. I know that we have a bad rep on this board, but I honestly love it here. Culturally - I think everyone is really nice and laid-back (no yellers/assholes/etc.) I've gotten lucky and met some really great mentors that have brought me along, invested in me and genuinely care about my development/well-being.

As with any big office, there's sub-cultures/variations depending on groups and teams. However, I think coming in as an unassigned is a huge advantage here because it gives you 18 months to "find you ppl" so to speak. I don't know anyone at Gibson NY, but based on the experiences of many of my other friends at other NY V10's, I am very happy with my choice. While many of them are absolutely miserable or now out of biglaw, I'm hoping to stay as long as I can.

I'm happy to talk in more detail either through private message here or hop on a phone call if you think it'll help you in your decision. Ultimately, go where you think you will be the happiest. The marginal differences in name/prestige between these firms is not worth being miserable and burning out in a year or two. I know that's probably not helpful advice as a law student, since most of these firms probably look the same to you at this point, but I think some questions that can really help you differentiate them:

"What's the firms policy on facetime?"
"When you're supervising juniors, how do you typically prefer to give feedback/teach them substantive matters? Has your approached changed due to WFH?"
"Do you work with one team consistently or is it always a new set of faces each matter? Does this create any conflict in working styles (in either direction, learning new working styles/habits with each new team or having to potentially work with someone you don't gel with constantly) and how do you handle such differences?"

Hi, thank you so much for your answer - this is incredibly insightful! I would really love to speak further with you through whichever you prefer whether private message or a phone call. Not really often on here so I don't know how I would go about private messaging you on this forum but if you have any insight that would be great. Thank you so much again.

Hah - good question; I couldn't figure out how to message through here either. Instead, I've created a dummy email account for you to email me at - dummyquestionemail@gmail.com. Email me a line there and we can set up a call or talk through emails. (Also, I'm not implying your questions are dumb lol, just that the email account itself is a dummy account for one purpose - haha didn't think through the name).

[Anonymous User]

Anonymous because I'm a Latham associate. I know that we have a bad rep on this board, but I honestly love it here. Culturally - I think everyone is really nice and laid-back (no yellers/assholes/etc.) I've gotten lucky and met some really great mentors that have brought me along, invested in me and genuinely care about my development/well-being.

As with any big office, there's sub-cultures/variations depending on groups and teams. However, I think coming in as an unassigned is a huge advantage here because it gives you 18 months to "find you ppl" so to speak. I don't know anyone at Gibson NY, but based on the experiences of many of my other friends at other NY V10's, I am very happy with my choice. While many of them are absolutely miserable or now out of biglaw, I'm hoping to stay as long as I can.

I'm happy to talk in more detail either through private message here or hop on a phone call if you think it'll help you in your decision. Ultimately, go where you think you will be the happiest. The marginal differences in name/prestige between these firms is not worth being miserable and burning out in a year or two. I know that's probably not helpful advice as a law student, since most of these firms probably look the same to you at this point, but I think some questions that can really help you differentiate them:

"What's the firms policy on facetime?"
"When you're supervising juniors, how do you typically prefer to give feedback/teach them substantive matters? Has your approached changed due to WFH?"
"Do you work with one team consistently or is it always a new set of faces each matter? Does this create any conflict in working styles (in either direction, learning new working styles/habits with each new team or having to potentially work with someone you don't gel with constantly) and how do you handle such differences?"

This made me feel great about my decision to take my Latham offer. TLS definitely wasn't helping in reassuring I made the right decision so thanks for posting!

[Anonymous User]

Also out of curiosity is there a reason why people are so hard on Latham here??

[Anonymous User]

Also out of curiosity is there a reason why people are so hard on Latham here??

Search for "Lathaming." Basically, Latham (like many big law firms) did not fare so well during the recession – but Latham essentially nuked its first-years, which other firms did not do to nearly the same extent when conducting layoffs. I have heard (but cannot say firsthand) that by contrast to Latham (and many other big law firms), Gibson was one of the few firms that weathered the recession fairly well.

[Anonymous User]

Also out of curiosity is there a reason why people are so hard on Latham here??

Same LW associate as above, but this board really hates the "Lathaming" of 2008/2009. Basically, Latham fired a bunch of associates and junior associates in the great recession. This is obviously the company kool-aid, but FWIW - here's the informal* stance that never gets portrayed on TLS:

1. It was a mistake and not one the firm would do again. (easy to say when times are good - not sure what I think the response would be if we believed we were in trouble again.)

2. It made getting a job much easier than the stealth firings everyone else did. You could go into an interview and say you were Latham'd and have a sympathetic employer. This worked better than someone claiming they were fired due to the economy, but the firm claiming the associate had performance issues and the firm is fine economically. (fair point in theory; not sure how it played out in reality).

3. We hired back a lot of those junior associates, even more were given generous severance packages and told to come back a year later - this was not common of the other firms. (I believe this to be true but don't have hard evidence/numbers to back this up)

*I want to reiterate that I do not purport to speak for LW nor was I an employee at that time. This is simply what I've been informally told/opinion I formed on it, and ultimately what made me comfortable with my decision in choosing Latham over other firms.

[Anonymous User]

Also out of curiosity is there a reason why people are so hard on Latham here??

Same LW associate as above, but this board really hates the "Lathaming" of 2008/2009. Basically, Latham fired a bunch of associates and junior associates in the great recession. This is obviously the company kool-aid, but FWIW - here's the informal* stance that never gets portrayed on TLS:

1. It was a mistake and not one the firm would do again. (easy to say when times are good - not sure what I think the response would be if we believed we were in trouble again.)

2. It made getting a job much easier than the stealth firings everyone else did. You could go into an interview and say you were Latham'd and have a sympathetic employer. This worked better than someone claiming they were fired due to the economy, but the firm claiming the associate had performance issues and the firm is fine economically. (fair point in theory; not sure how it played out in reality).

3. We hired back a lot of those junior associates, even more were given generous severance packages and told to come back a year later - this was not common of the other firms. (I believe this to be true but don't have hard evidence/numbers to back this up)

*I want to reiterate that I do not purport to speak for LW nor was I an employee at that time. This is simply what I've been informally told/opinion I formed on it, and ultimately what made me comfortable with my decision in choosing Latham over other firms.

I am not the original OP but I am in the exact same position. Is it ok for me to email you as well?

[Anonymous User]

Sure - go for it.

[Anonymous User]

Sure - go for it.

sent a list of questions! ty so much in advance

[Anonymous User]

Sure - go for it.

Could I ask you about your experience at Latham? I have an offer from them and am trying to decide