Latham v. STB v. Cleary v. Weil, please help me decide Forum

[Anonymous User]

Title. Interested in M&A and PE work, potentially also some capital market work. NY offices, but might wish to go to a different market in the future (either to the west coast or international), so would want some flexibility.

I like the transparency of Latham, sounds like their Associate committee makes you feel like part of the team, and I think I like their unassigned system better (on paper, not sure how good it really is), and international presence, but I can't get over the fact that they MASS fired people in 2008. I like STB for its probably more gentle culture (it seems ?), and the fact that they are stable and didn't fire people in the past, and maybe slightly better M&A/PE practice in New York. I like Cleary for their people, but seems like their M&A department is loosing partners, and their PE practice is not as strong (?), but they are overall more friendly than the rest firms. Weil is currently at the bottom of my list bc I clicked with their people the least, and seems like lots of their M&A attorneys need to do bankruptcy work anyways (tho maybe not a lot)

If you have also considered one of the firms above can you let me know your thought process. Also would appreciate any insider info.

[Anonymous User]

Title. Interested in M&A and PE work, potentially also some capital market work. NY offices, but might wish to go to a different market in the future (either to the west coast or international), so would want some flexibility.

I like the transparency of Latham, sounds like their Associate committee makes you feel like part of the team, and I think I like their unassigned system better (on paper, not sure how good it really is), and international presence, but I can't get over the fact that they MASS fired people in 2008. I like STB for its probably more gentle culture (it seems ?), and the fact that they are stable and didn't fire people in the past, and maybe slightly better M&A/PE practice in New York. I like Cleary for their people, but seems like their M&A department is loosing partners, and their PE practice is not as strong (?), but they are overall more friendly than the rest firms. Weil is currently at the bottom of my list bc I clicked with their people the least, and seems like lots of their M&A attorneys need to do bankruptcy work anyways (tho maybe not a lot)

If you have also considered one of the firms above can you let me know your thought process. Also would appreciate any insider info.

Are any of those things real strengths for Latham (transparency, feeling part of the team, unassigned)? I honestly don't know because they all sound like things to sell you on before committing to the machine. How do they make you more welcome than any other firm? Iv'e just seen not so great things about Latham but I am sure others are more informed. I also am personally suspicious of "open assignment" being a selling point because (1) I think firms more or less still push you into where they need work done. I don't think you will really be doing M&A one day and a government investigation the next. (2) Most firms end up being a sort of open assignment system as you develop relationships with a team.

Seems like you have vetted Cleary and Weil as backups. STB and Latham both great options, I know STB is particularly strong in PE. Think it comes down to your gut.

[malibustacy]

I like the transparency of Latham, sounds like their Associate committee makes you feel like part of the team, and I think I like their unassigned system better (on paper, not sure how good it really is), and international presence, but I can't get over the fact that they MASS fired people in 2008. I like STB for its probably more gentle culture (it seems ?), and the fact that they are stable and didn't fire people in the past, and maybe slightly better M&A/PE practice in New York. I like Cleary for their people, but seems like their M&A department is loosing partners, and their PE practice is not as strong (?), but they are overall more friendly than the rest firms. Weil is currently at the bottom of my list bc I clicked with their people the least, and seems like lots of their M&A attorneys need to do bankruptcy work anyways (tho maybe not a lot)

It's pretty sad that law students are forced to commit to firms with a few generalized stereotypes and vague ideas. If you are interested in PE work, I'd maybe pick Latham of the lot. They're all sweatshops.

[Anonymous User]

If you were seriously eyeing the West Coast in a few years, it seems like the Latham name would take you the furthest out there.

[Anonymous User]

I'd go with STB, it has the edge over all the others for M&A and PE in NY and is probably on par with Latham for capital markets.

[Anonymous User]

I like the transparency of Latham, sounds like their Associate committee makes you feel like part of the team, and I think I like their unassigned system better (on paper, not sure how good it really is), and international presence, but I can't get over the fact that they MASS fired people in 2008. I like STB for its probably more gentle culture (it seems ?), and the fact that they are stable and didn't fire people in the past, and maybe slightly better M&A/PE practice in New York. I like Cleary for their people, but seems like their M&A department is loosing partners, and their PE practice is not as strong (?), but they are overall more friendly than the rest firms. Weil is currently at the bottom of my list bc I clicked with their people the least, and seems like lots of their M&A attorneys need to do bankruptcy work anyways (tho maybe not a lot)

It's pretty sad that law students are forced to commit to firms with a few generalized stereotypes and vague ideas. If you are interested in PE work, I'd maybe pick Latham of the lot. They're all sweatshops.

honestly this. so hard to make decisions, esp we don't get to visit the office in person and get a sense this year, everything is virtual. I heard sus things about all 4 firms (I guess Latham's behavior in 08 is particularly jarring, also Weil's firing in recent years ... can't recall which year, tho granted that's non-NY market). i guess a few years down the line they won't have much difference. Thank you for your advice! Do you think in terms of M&A, the 4 firms are in the same tier?

[Anonymous User]

Title. Interested in M&A and PE work, potentially also some capital market work. NY offices, but might wish to go to a different market in the future (either to the west coast or international), so would want some flexibility.

I like the transparency of Latham, sounds like their Associate committee makes you feel like part of the team, and I think I like their unassigned system better (on paper, not sure how good it really is), and international presence, but I can't get over the fact that they MASS fired people in 2008. I like STB for its probably more gentle culture (it seems ?), and the fact that they are stable and didn't fire people in the past, and maybe slightly better M&A/PE practice in New York. I like Cleary for their people, but seems like their M&A department is loosing partners, and their PE practice is not as strong (?), but they are overall more friendly than the rest firms. Weil is currently at the bottom of my list bc I clicked with their people the least, and seems like lots of their M&A attorneys need to do bankruptcy work anyways (tho maybe not a lot)

If you have also considered one of the firms above can you let me know your thought process. Also would appreciate any insider info.

Are any of those things real strengths for Latham (transparency, feeling part of the team, unassigned)? I honestly don't know because they all sound like things to sell you on before committing to the machine. How do they make you more welcome than any other firm? Iv'e just seen not so great things about Latham but I am sure others are more informed. I also am personally suspicious of "open assignment" being a selling point because (1) I think firms more or less still push you into where they need work done. I don't think you will really be doing M&A one day and a government investigation the next. (2) Most firms end up being a sort of open assignment system as you develop relationships with a team.

Seems like you have vetted Cleary and Weil as backups. STB and Latham both great options, I know STB is particularly strong in PE. Think it comes down to your gut.

Thanks! my gut is confused lol. Is STB stronger in PE or Fund Formation? I read some of their private funds group partners' bios and seemed like they are more about Fund Formation, which I understand is really procedural and not what I want (contra. PE investments)

Re unassignment system, I agree. I don't know what that really means, but it does sound more like my previous employer, a consulting firm, as opposed to traditional law firms, which worked out well tbh, I got to work on most of the cases I wished to work on. I think you are right in that, at the end, people will work with some fixed teams, so maybe finding a team that interests me and fits me is more important.

[Anonymous User]

Title. Interested in M&A and PE work, potentially also some capital market work. NY offices, but might wish to go to a different market in the future (either to the west coast or international), so would want some flexibility.

I like the transparency of Latham, sounds like their Associate committee makes you feel like part of the team, and I think I like their unassigned system better (on paper, not sure how good it really is), and international presence, but I can't get over the fact that they MASS fired people in 2008. I like STB for its probably more gentle culture (it seems ?), and the fact that they are stable and didn't fire people in the past, and maybe slightly better M&A/PE practice in New York. I like Cleary for their people, but seems like their M&A department is loosing partners, and their PE practice is not as strong (?), but they are overall more friendly than the rest firms. Weil is currently at the bottom of my list bc I clicked with their people the least, and seems like lots of their M&A attorneys need to do bankruptcy work anyways (tho maybe not a lot)

If you have also considered one of the firms above can you let me know your thought process. Also would appreciate any insider info.

Are any of those things real strengths for Latham (transparency, feeling part of the team, unassigned)? I honestly don't know because they all sound like things to sell you on before committing to the machine. How do they make you more welcome than any other firm? Iv'e just seen not so great things about Latham but I am sure others are more informed. I also am personally suspicious of "open assignment" being a selling point because (1) I think firms more or less still push you into where they need work done. I don't think you will really be doing M&A one day and a government investigation the next. (2) Most firms end up being a sort of open assignment system as you develop relationships with a team.

Seems like you have vetted Cleary and Weil as backups. STB and Latham both great options, I know STB is particularly strong in PE. Think it comes down to your gut.

re associate committee - I was talking about their associate can attend and sit on the committee with partners to see how the firm is doing financially. So I guess that one i was more thinking about their transparency aspect. Do you know how transparent the other firms are? Latham sent me a flyer of benefits without me asking, but cleary only vague said they have great benefits but nothing else. Dont know if i should factor those things in as well - I don't wanna be petty but i feel like benefits also counts if you are working 10 hours per day lol

[Anonymous User]

I'd go with STB, it has the edge over all the others for M&A and PE in NY and is probably on par with Latham for capital markets.

Thank you for your input! that's the most appealing aspect of STB honestly

[Anonymous User]

Found this post bc I’m in a very similar position rn: STB v. Latham v. Cleary v. Debevoise. No idea how to choose. Also interested in MA, PE and capital markets work.

[malibustacy]

I like the transparency of Latham, sounds like their Associate committee makes you feel like part of the team, and I think I like their unassigned system better (on paper, not sure how good it really is), and international presence, but I can't get over the fact that they MASS fired people in 2008. I like STB for its probably more gentle culture (it seems ?), and the fact that they are stable and didn't fire people in the past, and maybe slightly better M&A/PE practice in New York. I like Cleary for their people, but seems like their M&A department is loosing partners, and their PE practice is not as strong (?), but they are overall more friendly than the rest firms. Weil is currently at the bottom of my list bc I clicked with their people the least, and seems like lots of their M&A attorneys need to do bankruptcy work anyways (tho maybe not a lot)

It's pretty sad that law students are forced to commit to firms with a few generalized stereotypes and vague ideas. If you are interested in PE work, I'd maybe pick Latham of the lot. They're all sweatshops.

honestly this. so hard to make decisions, esp we don't get to visit the office in person and get a sense this year, everything is virtual. I heard sus things about all 4 firms (I guess Latham's behavior in 08 is particularly jarring, also Weil's firing in recent years ... can't recall which year, tho granted that's non-NY market). i guess a few years down the line they won't have much difference. Thank you for your advice! Do you think in terms of M&A, the 4 firms are in the same tier?

I wouldn't really take the Latham firing thing during the Great Recession into consideration anymore. The people in charge now are different, and the firm has learned from that whole episode. People get regularly fired from all those firms; even those I personally know.

Personally I'd just choose between LW and STB if interested in PE work; it just comes down to a gut call in the end.