Fenwick v. Goodwin (SF) which one to go? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Extremely fortunate to get offers from both firms. Looking at the bay area market for general corporate work and liked both firms during the interviews. Honestly don't know which way to go.
Would appreciate any advice at all!

[wldecisions]

What do you want to do?

[Anonymous User]

What do you want to do?

general corporate, but specific practice area is pretty undecided. I have developed an interest in EC/VC work but from what I've understood both firms do quite ok in this area

[Anonymous User]

What do you want to do?

general corporate, but specific practice area is pretty undecided. I have developed an interest in EC/VC work but from what I've understood both firms do quite ok in this area

Goodwin is making some big strides but still lags behind Cooley/Fenwick/WSGR

That being said, if you preferred the people at Goodwin, go with them.

[Anonymous User]

What do you want to do?

general corporate, but specific practice area is pretty undecided. I have developed an interest in EC/VC work but from what I've understood both firms do quite ok in this area

Goodwin is making some big strides but still lags behind Cooley/Fenwick/WSGR

That being said, if you preferred the people at Goodwin, go with them.

I think this is an open and shut case for Fenwick. Goodwin associate here and not only is Fenwick stronger in SF/SV, you also avoid being at a place that recently undertook extensive layoffs that included a lot of corporate associates.

I also agree with the above poster that Goodwin is a notch below Fenwick/WSGR/Cooley. Maybe it would be closer if this was East Coast but I think that Fenwick sets you up incrementally better in SF/SV long-term.

[Anonymous User]

@Goodwin associate, are you in the SF/SV offices? Do you have any more info on the layoffs in corporate... it seems so strange because all the associates in the meetings and recruiting are talking about how the firm is aggressively hiring laterals and juniors, which I know is true. Why would a firm let so many people go and then turn right around and hire again, if it was not performance based reasons?

Is Goodwin SF/SV a cutthroat/competitive, prove your worth constantly type of place, or else you're gone? What is the mentorship like there... do partners look out for the associates that do good work for them?

I am also considering between Goodwin SF/SV and another East Coast-HQ firm in SV. I liked everyone I met at Goodwin, and the practice/clients, but the rumors of layoffs certainly make me nervous...

[Anonymous User]

@Goodwin associate, are you in the SF/SV offices? Do you have any more info on the layoffs in corporate... it seems so strange because all the associates in the meetings and recruiting are talking about how the firm is aggressively hiring laterals and juniors, which I know is true. Why would a firm let so many people go and then turn right around and hire again, if it was not performance based reasons?

Is Goodwin SF/SV a cutthroat/competitive, prove your worth constantly type of place, or else you're gone? What is the mentorship like there... do partners look out for the associates that do good work for them?

I am also considering between Goodwin SF/SV and another East Coast-HQ firm in SV. I liked everyone I met at Goodwin, and the practice/clients, but the rumors of layoffs certainly make me nervous...

If you truly have devleoped interest in EC/VC, not sure why you're considering East Coast-HQ firm...? This is an easy pick for Fenwick

[SFSpartan]

Goodwin senior associate here - I'm happy to chat about our culture, workload, etc. if you want to PM me. To the extent it's relevant, my practice is probably 80+% emerging companies and investor-side financing work, with a little bit of M&A when my clients get sold.

[Anonymous User]

@Goodwin associate, are you in the SF/SV offices? Do you have any more info on the layoffs in corporate... it seems so strange because all the associates in the meetings and recruiting are talking about how the firm is aggressively hiring laterals and juniors, which I know is true. Why would a firm let so many people go and then turn right around and hire again, if it was not performance based reasons?

Is Goodwin SF/SV a cutthroat/competitive, prove your worth constantly type of place, or else you're gone? What is the mentorship like there... do partners look out for the associates that do good work for them?

I am also considering between Goodwin SF/SV and another East Coast-HQ firm in SV. I liked everyone I met at Goodwin, and the practice/clients, but the rumors of layoffs certainly make me nervous...

If you truly have devleoped interest in EC/VC, not sure why you're considering East Coast-HQ firm...? This is an easy pick for Fenwick

I'm a different person than OP (OP is considering Fenwick v. Goodwin). I am more interested in broad/general corp and would like to know about culture.

[Anonymous User]

but the rumors of layoffs certainly make me nervous...

They're not "rumors;" it actually happened.

[Anonymous User]

@Goodwin associate, are you in the SF/SV offices? Do you have any more info on the layoffs in corporate... it seems so strange because all the associates in the meetings and recruiting are talking about how the firm is aggressively hiring laterals and juniors, which I know is true. Why would a firm let so many people go and then turn right around and hire again, if it was not performance based reasons?

Is Goodwin SF/SV a cutthroat/competitive, prove your worth constantly type of place, or else you're gone? What is the mentorship like there... do partners look out for the associates that do good work for them?

I am also considering between Goodwin SF/SV and another East Coast-HQ firm in SV. I liked everyone I met at Goodwin, and the practice/clients, but the rumors of layoffs certainly make me nervous...

Not Goodwin/Fenwick associate, so no skin in the game, but those layoffs were not rumors, they were widely reported in legal news/blogs. They happened towards the beginning of the pandemic, and it seems like the firm has now realized it's probably doing fine financially/understaffed if anything which is why they're probably "aggressively hiring." However, it should be a HUGE red flag that they chose to layoff associates at the first sign of a downturn, especially when "peer" firms didn't.

[Anonymous User]

@Goodwin associate, are you in the SF/SV offices? Do you have any more info on the layoffs in corporate... it seems so strange because all the associates in the meetings and recruiting are talking about how the firm is aggressively hiring laterals and juniors, which I know is true. Why would a firm let so many people go and then turn right around and hire again, if it was not performance based reasons?

Is Goodwin SF/SV a cutthroat/competitive, prove your worth constantly type of place, or else you're gone? What is the mentorship like there... do partners look out for the associates that do good work for them?

I am also considering between Goodwin SF/SV and another East Coast-HQ firm in SV. I liked everyone I met at Goodwin, and the practice/clients, but the rumors of layoffs certainly make me nervous...

Goodwin anon here. I am an East Coast senior corporate associate but I do a mix of EC/tech work with partners in SF/SV and east coast offices. As the most recent post said, these are not rumors but actually happened.

In terms of the layoffs: first consider that recruiting/partners/associates have a vested interest in downplaying the layoffs, obfuscating the extent to which they happen, and minimizing who was affected. So of course in the callback they would act in a manner Granted I do not have complete information but I know people that were laid off with above average reviews, years of consistent performance, exceeding the hours threshold by a few hundred hours. The firm's line is that only "performance based" layoffs occurred, but consider that corporate associates I know that were affected included a junior corporate associate that had just started but had not found a group to protect them, a lateral corporate associate who had been there less than three months, a midlevel with a history of consistent good reviews, and a senior associate with a good niche but that looked like it was going to downswing with the recession. You will be told that the layoffs were performance based but that is as straightforward of a lie that you can get.

You are right that Goodwin has aggressively hired new associates since and about fifty since the start of the pandemic. That would make me more scared about going there and not less if I were in your shoes. Once it became clear that there would be no work slowdown they just started hiring but there was no notion of "undoing" the layoffs. It is in the firm's financial interest not to. They fired per this website 50-100 associates to avoid paying those associates at all when there was less than 100% associate utilization, and then all the new laterals are not bonus eligible or get pro rated bonuses and started when the firm was already busy. Not a bad deal if you are the partner that gets the profits.

In terms of culture I dont think it is necessarily cut throat but something I would be aware of is that you should look for a partner or group of partners to sort of dedicate yourself to and be in their clique of associates. These were the people that fared best during the layoffs.

[Anonymous User]

Former Goodwin corporate associate here. I left before this round of layoffs, so I can't comment on that, but they did something similar in the downturn last decade. They fired a ton of associates, then a couple years later they realized they were massively understaffed and hired literals like crazy to keep up. I remember they kept raising the referral bonus to induce current associates to get their friends to jump ship to Goodwin then. It's a boom/bust firm that has no issue with gutting associate ranks when there's even the hint of slowing down and then finds new blood to take their place once the worst is over (or, as apparently happened this time, never happened). Take the offer if you liked them (I was at an East Coast office but generally like the West Coast people I worked with well enough) but be ready and don't say you weren't warned when the axe comes out next time.