Cooley or Weil? In NY Forum

[Anonymous User]

Likely to stay in NY for the long term. Interested in transactional work and want to be in the technology industry - which pushes me towards Cooley. However, given the current economy, I'm also concerned about job security. Weil has a strong bankruptcy practice which provides a safety net and I assume that if juniors don't get enough corporate work they can always transfer to the BK department. Cooley seems to rely heavily on IPO and VC work, which makes it a risky choice if the economy tanks.

any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Anonymous User]

It’s worth throwing in that Weil has a robust tech transactions group in NY as a factor in your decision.

[Anonymous User]

Likely to stay in NY for the long term. Interested in transactional work and want to be in the technology industry - which pushes me towards Cooley. However, given the current economy, I'm also concerned about job security. Weil has a strong bankruptcy practice which provides a safety net and I assume that if juniors don't get enough corporate work they can always transfer to the BK department. Cooley seems to rely heavily on IPO and VC work, which makes it a risky choice if the economy tanks.

any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Isn't the tech sector (and by extension firms like Cooley/Fenwick/WSGR etc) doing extremely well during the pandemic? I know several people at these firms and things have been absurdly busy these past couple of months. And it's not like tech is going anywhere soon...

[Anonymous User]

As someone who works in the tech transactions world, not all tech transactions practices are made equal. Weil's practice will consist almost entirely of M&A specialist support, which is boring, repetitive, and one-dimensional work. Cooley's tech transactions practice is far more likely to have its own clients and its own standalone matters. Strong advantage for Cooley in terms of tech transactions work.

This all being said, Weil is certainly a much larger, more robust firm in almost every other practice group in New York (while Cooley's office is quite small).

[Anonymous User]

Likely to stay in NY for the long term. Interested in transactional work and want to be in the technology industry - which pushes me towards Cooley. However, given the current economy, I'm also concerned about job security. Weil has a strong bankruptcy practice which provides a safety net and I assume that if juniors don't get enough corporate work they can always transfer to the BK department. Cooley seems to rely heavily on IPO and VC work, which makes it a risky choice if the economy tanks.

any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Weil Rx associate here: your assumption is wrong. We borrow juniors from other departments on a temporary basis but transferring to rx is unheard of, not to mention "can always transfer."

[DiligentSage]

Likely to stay in NY for the long term. Interested in transactional work and want to be in the technology industry - which pushes me towards Cooley. However, given the current economy, I'm also concerned about job security. Weil has a strong bankruptcy practice which provides a safety net and I assume that if juniors don't get enough corporate work they can always transfer to the BK department. Cooley seems to rely heavily on IPO and VC work, which makes it a risky choice if the economy tanks.

any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Isn't the tech sector (and by extension firms like Cooley/Fenwick/WSGR etc) doing extremely well during the pandemic? I know several people at these firms and things have been absurdly busy these past couple of months. And it's not like tech is going anywhere soon...

Currently at a top tech-facing firm and can confirm that hours at my firm and all of its peer firms are super high. There’s no shortage of work to go around.

[Anonymous User]

Likely to stay in NY for the long term. Interested in transactional work and want to be in the technology industry - which pushes me towards Cooley. However, given the current economy, I'm also concerned about job security. Weil has a strong bankruptcy practice which provides a safety net and I assume that if juniors don't get enough corporate work they can always transfer to the BK department. Cooley seems to rely heavily on IPO and VC work, which makes it a risky choice if the economy tanks.

any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Isn't the tech sector (and by extension firms like Cooley/Fenwick/WSGR etc) doing extremely well during the pandemic? I know several people at these firms and things have been absurdly busy these past couple of months. And it's not like tech is going anywhere soon...

Yes. I think for 2021 and maybe even 2022, the capital market and M&A will remain busy. But I don't see how we can avoid a recession for the next 2-5 years with so many people losing their jobs and stores losing business during the pandemic. I'm worried about being laid off 2-5 years into my career.

[Anonymous User]

Likely to stay in NY for the long term. Interested in transactional work and want to be in the technology industry - which pushes me towards Cooley. However, given the current economy, I'm also concerned about job security. Weil has a strong bankruptcy practice which provides a safety net and I assume that if juniors don't get enough corporate work they can always transfer to the BK department. Cooley seems to rely heavily on IPO and VC work, which makes it a risky choice if the economy tanks.

any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Weil Rx associate here: your assumption is wrong. We borrow juniors from other departments on a temporary basis but transferring to rx is unheard of, not to mention "can always transfer."

Would you mind share your general experience at Weil? Also, I am interested in Rx, is it easy to transfer to in house later with Rx experience? Thank you.

[Anonymous User]

Depends what you want to do. If you want to do emerging companies/venture capital, TTG or capital markets work, I think Cooley is the clear winner. If you want to do M&A or bankruptcy, Weil wins. Also don't put that much weight into bankruptcy helping if the economy tanks - Weil (like most other firms) laid a bunch of associates off during the financial crisis even amidst all the Lehman work.

Fwiw, I think bankruptcy is one of the crappiest quality of life practice areas you can join. I've never done the work myself, but that's based on friends in the space (Weil included).

[Anonymous User]

As someone who works in the tech transactions world, not all tech transactions practices are made equal. Weil's practice will consist almost entirely of M&A specialist support, which is boring, repetitive, and one-dimensional work. Cooley's tech transactions practice is far more likely to have its own clients and its own standalone matters. Strong advantage for Cooley in terms of tech transactions work.

This all being said, Weil is certainly a much larger, more robust firm in almost every other practice group in New York (while Cooley's office is quite small).

I mainly relied on Chambers in evaluting firm's practice. It ranked Weil in band 2 for M&A Elite in NY.
I was unaware that the type of M&A work could differ that much. Would you mind elaborate on what exactly is M&A specialist support? Thank you.

[Anonymous User]

As someone who works in the tech transactions world, not all tech transactions practices are made equal. Weil's practice will consist almost entirely of M&A specialist support, which is boring, repetitive, and one-dimensional work. Cooley's tech transactions practice is far more likely to have its own clients and its own standalone matters. Strong advantage for Cooley in terms of tech transactions work.

This all being said, Weil is certainly a much larger, more robust firm in almost every other practice group in New York (while Cooley's office is quite small).

I mainly relied on Chambers in evaluting firm's practice. It ranked Weil in band 2 for M&A Elite in NY.
I was unaware that the type of M&A work could differ that much. Would you mind elaborate on what exactly is M&A specialist support? Thank you.

[Anonymous User]

As someone who works in the tech transactions world, not all tech transactions practices are made equal. Weil's practice will consist almost entirely of M&A specialist support, which is boring, repetitive, and one-dimensional work. Cooley's tech transactions practice is far more likely to have its own clients and its own standalone matters. Strong advantage for Cooley in terms of tech transactions work.

This all being said, Weil is certainly a much larger, more robust firm in almost every other practice group in New York (while Cooley's office is quite small).

I mainly relied on Chambers in evaluting firm's practice. It ranked Weil in band 2 for M&A Elite in NY.
I was unaware that the type of M&A work could differ that much. Would you mind elaborate on what exactly is M&A specialist support? Thank you.

I'm not OP but basically saying that at many white shoe law firms, a TTG group is primarily a support group for the M&A team. Meaning their primary role is helping the M&A team with diligence in a M&A deal, and are less likely to have their own clients who look to the TTG team for assistance.

If you're confused at all - TTG work is NOT M&A work, it's more so commercial contracting, IP and licensing type work.

If you're at a tech-focused firm, a TTG group is more "standalone" meaning while you may also support on a M&A deal, you'll also have quite a few clients (think Facebook, Google, etc.) who turn to your team for standalone TTG work, which is probably more interesting than just diligence on a M&A deal.

[Anonymous User]

As someone who works in the tech transactions world, not all tech transactions practices are made equal. Weil's practice will consist almost entirely of M&A specialist support, which is boring, repetitive, and one-dimensional work. Cooley's tech transactions practice is far more likely to have its own clients and its own standalone matters. Strong advantage for Cooley in terms of tech transactions work.

This all being said, Weil is certainly a much larger, more robust firm in almost every other practice group in New York (while Cooley's office is quite small).

I mainly relied on Chambers in evaluting firm's practice. It ranked Weil in band 2 for M&A Elite in NY.
I was unaware that the type of M&A work could differ that much. Would you mind elaborate on what exactly is M&A specialist support? Thank you.

I'm not OP but basically saying that at many white shoe law firms, a TTG group is primarily a support group for the M&A team. Meaning their primary role is helping the M&A team with diligence in a M&A deal, and are less likely to have their own clients who look to the TTG team for assistance.

If you're confused at all - TTG work is NOT M&A work, it's more so commercial contracting, IP and licensing type work.

If you're at a tech-focused firm, a TTG group is more "standalone" meaning while you may also support on a M&A deal, you'll also have quite a few clients (think Facebook, Google, etc.) who turn to your team for standalone TTG work, which is probably more interesting than just diligence on a M&A deal.

I'm the OP for the TTG comment above. Thank you--agree 100% with your answer.

On a typical M&A deal, there will be a central "corporate" team that liaises directly with the client, drafts the core purchase agreement, and "leads" in the deal in just about every respect. However, every deal will also have smaller, specialized issues like tax, employment, IP, etc. That is where your "specialists" come in, who will advise on a very limited subset of issues on the deal--typically specialized due diligence, reps and warranties, and perhaps 1-2 ancillary agreements.

While some people enjoy doing specialist work, many do not. Your direct "client" is your own corporate team, rather than the client itself. The corporate team will boss the specialists around, set internal deadlines ahead of the actual deadlines the client dictates (because the corporate team needs time to review your work), and handle 90% of the interactions with the client. In addition, because specialists will usually have a very small role on a given deal, it means you end up working on many, many more deals at a given time compared to the core corporate team, which can be hectic and overwhelming. Likewise, there is often a sense that specialists are treated like second class citizens at a firm, to some extent (i.e., the corporate team is the "quarterback," while the specialists might be the kicker or punter -- perhaps an exaggeration, but you get the picture).

Likewise, the lawyers that might win awards for being a "top tech lawyer in NYC" might actually be the corporate M&A lawyers, rather than the TTG deal support specialists. At my firm, a fairly junior M&A partner won a Law360 Award a couple years ago as "Tech Lawyer of the Year," and I, as a TTG associate, didn't even know that he worked on tech deals or had a specialty in that sector (but as it turned out, one of his private equity clients did a slew of deals in the tech sector that year, out of the blue). Likewise, I'm sure that Weil's chambers ranking is based upon its M&A deals in the tech sector (which is being driven out of the firm's M&A group), rather than from the work the TTG group is doing specifically.

In comparison, a TTG group like Cooley's will do some M&A specialist support, but they will also have their own clients with their own standalone deals. These deals might include complex license agreements or other large commercial or strategic agreements that aren't ancillary to an M&A deal. On these deals, the TTG team is serving as the "quarterback," as they are liaising directly with the client and drafting the core transaction agreements (with perhaps, once again, support from other groups like tax or antitrust).

So you might wonder: how do I find a firm with a TTG practice that does real, substantive work (as opposed to deal support)? In most cases, you'll want to pick firms that have headquarters in SF/SV (Cooley, WSGR) or Boston (Ropes, Goodwin), as these firms tend to have a lot of standalone TTG work due to their tech or life sciences client bases.

Hope this helps.

[Anonymous User]

As someone who works in the tech transactions world, not all tech transactions practices are made equal. Weil's practice will consist almost entirely of M&A specialist support, which is boring, repetitive, and one-dimensional work. Cooley's tech transactions practice is far more likely to have its own clients and its own standalone matters. Strong advantage for Cooley in terms of tech transactions work.

This all being said, Weil is certainly a much larger, more robust firm in almost every other practice group in New York (while Cooley's office is quite small).

I mainly relied on Chambers in evaluting firm's practice. It ranked Weil in band 2 for M&A Elite in NY.
I was unaware that the type of M&A work could differ that much. Would you mind elaborate on what exactly is M&A specialist support? Thank you.

I'm not OP but basically saying that at many white shoe law firms, a TTG group is primarily a support group for the M&A team. Meaning their primary role is helping the M&A team with diligence in a M&A deal, and are less likely to have their own clients who look to the TTG team for assistance.

If you're confused at all - TTG work is NOT M&A work, it's more so commercial contracting, IP and licensing type work.

If you're at a tech-focused firm, a TTG group is more "standalone" meaning while you may also support on a M&A deal, you'll also have quite a few clients (think Facebook, Google, etc.) who turn to your team for standalone TTG work, which is probably more interesting than just diligence on a M&A deal.

I'm the OP for the TTG comment above. Thank you--agree 100% with your answer.

On a typical M&A deal, there will be a central "corporate" team that liaises directly with the client, drafts the core purchase agreement, and "leads" in the deal in just about every respect. However, every deal will also have smaller, specialized issues like tax, employment, IP, etc. That is where your "specialists" come in, who will advise on a very limited subset of issues on the deal--typically specialized due diligence, reps and warranties, and perhaps 1-2 ancillary agreements.

While some people enjoy doing specialist work, many do not. Your direct "client" is your own corporate team, rather than the client itself. The corporate team will boss the specialists around, set internal deadlines ahead of the actual deadlines the client dictates (because the corporate team needs time to review your work), and handle 90% of the interactions with the client. In addition, because specialists will usually have a very small role on a given deal, it means you end up working on many, many more deals at a given time compared to the core corporate team, which can be hectic and overwhelming. Likewise, there is often a sense that specialists are treated like second class citizens at a firm, to some extent (i.e., the corporate team is the "quarterback," while the specialists might be the kicker or punter -- perhaps an exaggeration, but you get the picture).

Likewise, the lawyers that might win awards for being a "top tech lawyer in NYC" might actually be the corporate M&A lawyers, rather than the TTG deal support specialists. At my firm, a fairly junior M&A partner won a Law360 Award a couple years ago as "Tech Lawyer of the Year," and I, as a TTG associate, didn't even know that he worked on tech deals or had a specialty in that sector (but as it turned out, one of his private equity clients did a slew of deals in the tech sector that year, out of the blue). Likewise, I'm sure that Weil's chambers ranking is based upon its M&A deals in the tech sector (which is being driven out of the firm's M&A group), rather than from the work the TTG group is doing specifically.

In comparison, a TTG group like Cooley's will do some M&A specialist support, but they will also have their own clients with their own standalone deals. These deals might include complex license agreements or other large commercial or strategic agreements that aren't ancillary to an M&A deal. On these deals, the TTG team is serving as the "quarterback," as they are liaising directly with the client and drafting the core transaction agreements (with perhaps, once again, support from other groups like tax or antitrust).

So you might wonder: how do I find a firm with a TTG practice that does real, substantive work (as opposed to deal support)? In most cases, you'll want to pick firms that have headquarters in SF/SV (Cooley, WSGR) or Boston (Ropes, Goodwin), as these firms tend to have a lot of standalone TTG work due to their tech or life sciences client bases.

Hope this helps.

OP here. Thank you for your input! It's extremely helpful.