Need help narrowing down options (NY, DC) Forum

[Anonymous User]

I am still waiting on a couple of firms (most significantly Gibson DC), but I need to turn down some offers. I am committed to litigation, and I prefer DC to NY. I would be willing to go to a NY firm if it was better professionally than my DC options.

Here are my offers:

S&C NY
Sidley NY
Cleary NY
Selendy & Gay NY
Covington DC
A&P DC

I will be spending part of the summer at a boutique DC firm, if that matters. I will also be clerking right after law school. Thanks for any insight!

[Anonymous User]

I am still waiting on a couple of firms (most significantly Gibson DC), but I need to turn down some offers. I am committed to litigation, and I prefer DC to NY. I would be willing to go to a NY firm if it was better professionally than my DC options.

Here are my offers:

S&C NY
Sidley NY
Cleary NY
Selendy & Gay NY
Covington DC
A&P DC

I will be spending part of the summer at a boutique DC firm, if that matters. I will also be clerking right after law school. Thanks for any insight!

You can turn down every NY firm except for Selendy right off the bat and help out your poor classmates. You can also turn down A&P DC, as it isn't even close to the same class as Covington is. And if you know you have a clerkship now, you're probably FedSoc and wouldn't fit in anyway. Your boutique is presumably Kellogg, which I'm not sure if Covington will let you split with (they might consider it a peer firm in the same geographic area), but it shouldn't matter too much. Gibson will let you split with Kellogg, FWIW.

Also, this summer doesn't matter too much for you, as you can reapply after your clerkship. While I think I gave informed advice, if you really think you fit in somewhere, just go there and try it out. If it's not to your liking, reapply - you are top of your class and will have plenty of options again.

[Anonymous User]

I am still waiting on a couple of firms (most significantly Gibson DC), but I need to turn down some offers. I am committed to litigation, and I prefer DC to NY. I would be willing to go to a NY firm if it was better professionally than my DC options.

Here are my offers:

S&C NY
Sidley NY
Cleary NY
Selendy & Gay NY
Covington DC
A&P DC

I will be spending part of the summer at a boutique DC firm, if that matters. I will also be clerking right after law school. Thanks for any insight!

You can turn down every NY firm except for Selendy right off the bat and help out your poor classmates. You can also turn down A&P DC, as it isn't even close to the same class as Covington is. And if you know you have a clerkship now, you're probably FedSoc and wouldn't fit in anyway. Your boutique is presumably Kellogg, which I'm not sure if Covington will let you split with (they might consider it a peer firm in the same geographic area), but it shouldn't matter too much. Gibson will let you split with Kellogg, FWIW.

Also, this summer doesn't matter too much for you, as you can reapply after your clerkship. While I think I gave informed advice, if you really think you fit in somewhere, just go there and try it out. If it's not to your liking, reapply - you are top of your class and will have plenty of options again.

Isn't Selendy lefty, which makes me think maybe not Fed Soc? But yeah I'd rather be a litigator there than at the NYC biglaw firms.

In DC, A&P used to have a really strong appellate practice but they lost Lisa Blatt to W&C. I'd take GDC over Covington for lit if I had both though. Especially if you want a Fed Soc-friendly environment--I don't know that Covington doesn't, but GDC definitely does.

The DC boutique could also be Consovoy, they do splits, or probably some other firms, idk.

[cls2019eip]

Agreed COV DC or GDC DC. Fairly clear personality and political differences between the two, but both excellent for lit in DC.

[Anonymous User]

I am still waiting on a couple of firms (most significantly Gibson DC), but I need to turn down some offers. I am committed to litigation, and I prefer DC to NY. I would be willing to go to a NY firm if it was better professionally than my DC options.

Here are my offers:

S&C NY
Sidley NY
Cleary NY
Selendy & Gay NY
Covington DC
A&P DC

I will be spending part of the summer at a boutique DC firm, if that matters. I will also be clerking right after law school. Thanks for any insight!

You can turn down every NY firm except for Selendy right off the bat and help out your poor classmates. You can also turn down A&P DC, as it isn't even close to the same class as Covington is. And if you know you have a clerkship now, you're probably FedSoc and wouldn't fit in anyway. Your boutique is presumably Kellogg, which I'm not sure if Covington will let you split with (they might consider it a peer firm in the same geographic area), but it shouldn't matter too much. Gibson will let you split with Kellogg, FWIW.

Also, this summer doesn't matter too much for you, as you can reapply after your clerkship. While I think I gave informed advice, if you really think you fit in somewhere, just go there and try it out. If it's not to your liking, reapply - you are top of your class and will have plenty of options again.

Isn't Selendy lefty, which makes me think maybe not Fed Soc? But yeah I'd rather be a litigator there than at the NYC biglaw firms.

In DC, A&P used to have a really strong appellate practice but they lost Lisa Blatt to W&C. I'd take GDC over Covington for lit if I had both though. Especially if you want a Fed Soc-friendly environment--I don't know that Covington doesn't, but GDC definitely does.

The DC boutique could also be Consovoy, they do splits, or probably some other firms, idk.

Selendy is unique enough (plaintiff-side work, focus on trials, immediate substantive responsibility) that I wouldn't immediately cut them, even if the politics aren't 100% aligned (I don't think that would be a real issue anyway). Especially if OP is dead-set on being a litigator (as opposed to regulatory work), S&G is probably better for that than even Covington.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Thanks for the advice so far. A few points of clarification:

1) Boutique is not one of the ones mentioned; I just offered it because it means I will be in DC for part of the summer already.

2) I am also interning with the federal government (academic calendar and boutique schedule will let me go to three places--I have already confirmed it will work). I like the idea of work that involves the government in some way (but not absolutely necessary). I am open to regulatory work but not in a capacity that is more transactional that litigation.

3) The FedSoc inference is correct, BUT I have never actually lived, worked, or operated in a "conservative" (for want of a more accurate term) environment. I am perfectly fine working for a firm that is liberal, but I may draw the line if it is in-your-face. I am not registered with any political party and am okay not sharing (or having to listen to) political opinions in the workplace. So if there is somewhere obnoxiously outspoken--regardless of whether conservative or liberal--that would be a pause factor for me.

I am reluctant to cut S&C at this point because it is a strong NY BL firm--it sounds like maybe Sidley NY should be first on the chopping block?

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Thanks for the advice so far. A few points of clarification:

1) Boutique is not one of the ones mentioned; I just offered it because it means I will be in DC for part of the summer already.

2) I am also interning with the federal government (academic calendar and boutique schedule will let me go to three places--I have already confirmed it will work). I like the idea of work that involves the government in some way (but not absolutely necessary). I am open to regulatory work but not in a capacity that is more transactional that litigation.

3) The FedSoc inference is correct, BUT I have never actually lived, worked, or operated in a "conservative" (for want of a more accurate term) environment. I am perfectly fine working for a firm that is liberal, but I may draw the line if it is in-your-face. I am not registered with any political party and am okay not sharing (or having to listen to) political opinions in the workplace. So if there is somewhere obnoxiously outspoken--regardless of whether conservative or liberal--that would be a pause factor for me.

I am reluctant to cut S&C at this point because it is a strong NY BL firm--it sounds like maybe Sidley NY should be first on the chopping block?

You can probably cut Sidley immediately, but you should reach out to all the firms and see how they feel about the split summer you are suggesting, and if you have any desire to have a break between your 2L and 3L year.

[Anonymous User]

Think you can safely cut Sidley, Cleary, and A&P unless you felt really strongly about one of them. I echo the advice of asking about splitting sooner rather than later

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Thanks for the advice so far. A few points of clarification:

1) Boutique is not one of the ones mentioned; I just offered it because it means I will be in DC for part of the summer already.

2) I am also interning with the federal government (academic calendar and boutique schedule will let me go to three places--I have already confirmed it will work). I like the idea of work that involves the government in some way (but not absolutely necessary). I am open to regulatory work but not in a capacity that is more transactional that litigation.

3) The FedSoc inference is correct, BUT I have never actually lived, worked, or operated in a "conservative" (for want of a more accurate term) environment. I am perfectly fine working for a firm that is liberal, but I may draw the line if it is in-your-face. I am not registered with any political party and am okay not sharing (or having to listen to) political opinions in the workplace. So if there is somewhere obnoxiously outspoken--regardless of whether conservative or liberal--that would be a pause factor for me.

I am reluctant to cut S&C at this point because it is a strong NY BL firm--it sounds like maybe Sidley NY should be first on the chopping block?

How does the timing work here? Most of the firms you listed will require you to spend the first part of the summer with them and spend at least 8 weeks there. Government programs are at least 6 weeks, and then you have to fit another 4-8 weeks at a boutique.

Moreover, you have to get all of this cleared by the main firm, and I can see some firms having an issue with you trying to do three totally different things in one summer -- you won't sound committed to BigLaw at all.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Thanks for the advice so far. A few points of clarification:

1) Boutique is not one of the ones mentioned; I just offered it because it means I will be in DC for part of the summer already.

2) I am also interning with the federal government (academic calendar and boutique schedule will let me go to three places--I have already confirmed it will work). I like the idea of work that involves the government in some way (but not absolutely necessary). I am open to regulatory work but not in a capacity that is more transactional that litigation.

3) The FedSoc inference is correct, BUT I have never actually lived, worked, or operated in a "conservative" (for want of a more accurate term) environment. I am perfectly fine working for a firm that is liberal, but I may draw the line if it is in-your-face. I am not registered with any political party and am okay not sharing (or having to listen to) political opinions in the workplace. So if there is somewhere obnoxiously outspoken--regardless of whether conservative or liberal--that would be a pause factor for me.

I am reluctant to cut S&C at this point because it is a strong NY BL firm--it sounds like maybe Sidley NY should be first on the chopping block?

How does the timing work here? Most of the firms you listed will require you to spend the first part of the summer with them and spend at least 8 weeks there. Government programs are at least 6 weeks, and then you have to fit another 4-8 weeks at a boutique.

Moreover, you have to get all of this cleared by the main firm, and I can see some firms having an issue with you trying to do three totally different things in one summer -- you won't sound committed to BigLaw at all.

I am able to spend less than 4 weeks at the boutique.

[Anonymous User]

Off topic, OP, but out of curiosity, when was your GDC callback? I'm in a somewhat similar boat and still waiting on them, which is frustrating. Not totally sure I'd pick them but they are moving slower on my app than their peers are. If you're not comfortable sharing exact date, ballpark estimate would still be helpful. Thanks!

[Anonymous User]

If you get Gibson DC, go there. It’s by far the best litigation firm/office you’ve mentioned. Really good across pretty much every swath of lit, great rep, well known in dc, lots of clerks. If you’re into it, they obviously also have a very large appellate practice - one of the top 4 elite big firm appellate practices (Wilmer, Gibson, Kirkland, Sidley) which really dominate the full service dedicated appellate space. But they also have an excellent general lit practice, great investigations work, pretty much everything is top notch there.

If you don’t get Gibson, things are slightly more complicated, but if you prefer DC anyways, the DC market is more prestigious / better for lit in almost every case (unless you’re just really into general commercial disputes or something). Covington is a stronger firm - in terms of both practice and reputation - than A&P. Unless you really love the A&P people, that’s probably the go to move. Covington is good for general commercial - although not as good as Gibson - and really top of the field, along with Williams and maybe Wilmer - in terms of investigations. They basically don’t have an appellate practice though. If that’s really all you’re into, maybe there’s a case for A&P, which still has some legacy appellate work / rep even as its practice has been crippled by partner departures (not just, but obviously including, Lisa Blatt).

If you want to be in NYC for some reason (ie the DC firms won’t let you do that split or something) then S&C is probably stronger than the other large firms for lit. The best Sidley lit work all goes to DC from what I understand, and Cleary is just not nearly as good of a firm outside of antitrust. Selendy is a weird beast obviously - but two boutiques is probably a bit much. Since you’re doing one already, go see a big firm for comparative sake.

[Anonymous User]

Off topic, OP, but out of curiosity, when was your GDC callback? I'm in a somewhat similar boat and still waiting on them, which is frustrating. Not totally sure I'd pick them but they are moving slower on my app than their peers are. If you're not comfortable sharing exact date, ballpark estimate would still be helpful. Thanks!

OP. GD CB was Wednesday afternoon. They definitely are in the running along with a CA firm so I am hoping for news, especially good news.