Latham NY vs Sullivan Cromwell (S&C) NY Forum

[Anonymous User]

Have offers from these two places - interested in general corporate work (Banking, cap markets, private equity, M&A, etc).

Any thoughts on which firm I should pick? Leaning towards Latham culturally but not sure if there is a gap in terms of work.

[Anonymous User]

They're both sweatshops, S&C has slightly higher prestige (Logo facing out etc.), but prolly getting v similar work at either place. Can't really make a mistake unless you really want a banking exit where SullCrom prolly has an advantage.

[Anonymous User]

They're both sweatshops, S&C has slightly higher prestige (Logo facing out etc.), but prolly getting v similar work at either place. Can't really make a mistake unless you really want a banking exit where SullCrom prolly has an advantage.

[Anonymous User]

Have offers from these two places - interested in general corporate work (Banking, cap markets, private equity, M&A, etc).

Any thoughts on which firm I should pick? Leaning towards Latham culturally but not sure if there is a gap in terms of work.

Definitely S&C no question. Much more prestige. Latham NYC is also not best culture. Very toxic (friend was paralegal there before law school).

[Elston Gunn]

Imo no one with comparable options should ever go to Latham. They have screwed over large swathes of younger associates multiple times, and (anecdotally) they are much more likely to push out very junior associates than their peers.

[Anonymous User]

Have offers from these two places - interested in general corporate work (Banking, cap markets, private equity, M&A, etc).

Any thoughts on which firm I should pick? Leaning towards Latham culturally but not sure if there is a gap in terms of work.

Honestly S&C here.

[Anonymous User]

S&C, no question. Latham puts on a good show at interviews, but there's no question that as a corporate junior you'll get better experience and almost certainly have a better time at S&C. Among other reasons:

1. No hours requirement for bonus. (Doesn't mean you won't work hard, just that unless you are getting/have been fired, you'll get a market bonus.) Getting paid for your hours may make sense when you're older and you know what you're doing - but when you're learning the ropes, there's no need to have that added pressure.

2. Less likely to get pushed out because some random person on your team has taken a dislike to you/you haven't found a team in the allotted time.

3. While both firms have a general rotating corporate pool while you're junior, I understand this means different things at each place. Any corporate junior at Latham is on the hook for a Friday afternoon call to work as part of a commitment paper tree all weekend - even if you've expressed no interest at all in lev fin. (The firm has great relationships with banks, but this has its downsides.) And you can get pinged if you're too generalist and a group decides that you should only be doing work with them when you want to pick them.

4. Offices. Probably not a huge concern just now, but likely to become so if the world returns to normal. My understanding from friends there is that Latham is basically putting all first years into open plan - not a great environment to concentrate and learn, or have conversations with colleagues, and actually stifles camaraderie. Maybe this is a race to the bottom, but I hope not.

5. Stability - rare to see lateral partners into S&C (but it does happen). Latham's more of a revolving door.

Finally, if you care about this: you'll probably be able to lateral into Latham from S&C in a year or two if you dislike it that much. Probably not so true the other way.

[Anonymous User]

I see the Latham haters are back in full force!

[Anonymous User]

I mean Latham is not S&C - not sure why that's being a Latham hater (I don't think 08 behavior matters ofc)

[Anonymous User]

I mean, the Anon's point above my original post is full of misinformation.

1) I fully acknowledge that S&C is a very prestigious law firm- but mostly in New York. Latham does very good work in New York as well, but they're more focused on their status as global law firm. If OP ever wants to leave NYC, Latham's name will go just as far as S&C's, short of the OP wanting to go to an investment banking firm or big bank.

2) In terms of "getting better experience and having a better time", let's talk about culture. S&C culture is very white shoe. They're significantly more uptight than Latham and there are definitely a few screamers in the NYC office. If the pomp and circumstance vibe is your thing that's fine, but it's no question that Latham NYC is a significantly more relaxed and collegial place down to the way associates have to dress when they come into the office. You're going to be wearing a suit to the office everyday at S&C. Latham was also way more flexible with WFH pre pandemic, and had some of the most progressive maternity leave policies and mental health & wellness benefits of any firm in the V10. I also think it's hilarious how the other Anon seems to suggest that the idea that "Any corporate junior at Latham is on the hook for a Friday afternoon call to work as part of a commitment paper tree all weekend" doesn't also apply to S&C. All of these firms are going to monopolize your time.

3) Latham has a 1900 hour requirement for bonus. But, as anybody who has actually worked in BL knows (and especially for the kind of work that OP wants to do) this is a laughably low bar, that anybody working in general corporate finance in the V10 will easily meet.This point is negligible.

4) Latham is better for PE and Cap Markets. S&C is better for general M&A work and Banking & Finance. But, for all intents and purposes, the work you're getting at, really, any V10 is not going to be substantially different.

I'm not even going to bother addressing things that happened 11 years ago.

[Anonymous User]

I'm not even going to bother addressing things that happened 11 years ago.

Just to add to that, yeah, Latham fucked up big time in 2009. But SullCrom screwed over their entire summer class last year.

Anyways, both firms are strong in different practice areas as has been discussed before. Your chances of sticking it out in biglaw for more than 5-6 years are pretty low, so just pick wherever you liked the people more and whatever firm is stronger for your particular interests.

[Anonymous User]

Imo no one with comparable options should ever go to Latham. They have screwed over large swathes of younger associates multiple times, and (anecdotally) they are much more likely to push out very junior associates than their peers.

If you're going to talk about screwing over associates, isn't the way S&C treated their summers in 2020 way more relevant...?

[Sackboy]

People's notions of prestige on TLS are so odd. If your world revolves around NYC and your notions of prestige remains centered around being a "small" biglaw firm with high PPP instead of a giant firm with equally high PPP, then, sure, S&C is more prestigious. If you're thinking about lateraling or exiting to a different firm, they're literally going to be indistinguishable. Your deal sheets/representative matters are going to look the same with some relatively meaningless variances. This is the sort of prestige snobbery that is just a bad look. Either option is fine. Go with whichever one you liked more on your CBs or that you think will give you a higher chance of landing the practice you want. Location is becoming even more non-relevant these days too, so I wouldn't worry about that too much, my V10 regularly staffs me on deals across 4 offices.

[Elston Gunn]

Imo no one with comparable options should ever go to Latham. They have screwed over large swathes of younger associates multiple times, and (anecdotally) they are much more likely to push out very junior associates than their peers.

If you're going to talk about screwing over associates, isn't the way S&C treated their summers in 2020 way more relevant...?

Missing out on a few thousand dollars is essentially nothing over the course of a Biglaw career. (Unless there’s something else S&C did I don’t know about, which is possible.) Getting fired as a first year can basically ruin your career. Not at all similar.

[Anonymous User]

For what it’s worth, I chose Latham a couple years ago over CSW and S&C and I’m very happy with my choice. I’m a fairly social person that likes interacting with my colleagues and I know I would not have lasted very long at the other firms. You’re gonna get a lot of Latham haters on here, but SullCrom is a notorious sweatshop with partners and associates who could not care less about your personal life or your time on the weekends. A lot of this job sucks and most of it is going to be the same at most firms, but the people you work with and their attitudes can be a major influence if that’s something that you value.