Considering an in-house opportunity - appropriate title and comp? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Senior corporate associate here at a SoCal firm in the v20-v40 range, who always had in-house aspirations but somehow, despite all odds, made it this far in big law. I've had a general corporate practice, with a focus on tech transactions and M&A, but with also a good amount of experience in other deal (private and public offerings) and your plain vanilla day to day corporate work as well. I think my experience will be a good fit for an in-house generalist role and have been looking for the right opportunity.

I have honed in on an opportunity with a client that I have a good relationship with across multiple transactions. Biotech company with good technology (from what I can tell), great exec team (I've worked with the CEO, COO and others and all seem like decent folks), and most of all the GC is an all around nice and competent person that I jive well with. Only a few years old, so small company of about 20 employees (they started with the key hires and are now building out the company), has been successful raising funds and IPO is on the horizon this year. Legal team consists of GC, who is overextended due to handling everything, and a new patent person (Director of IP) they hired recently. GC already thinks I would be a great fit, especially since I've worked closely with them over the years, and he needs the help.

My questions:

1. Given my experience level (7+ years of relevant big law experience) and company's small legal team, what title should I be expecting/asking for to be able to leverage for future opportunities elsewhere? Titles for legal roles seem all over the map. Would asking for something like VP, Legal be a stretch? Associate GC? Director of Legal, Corporate? I'm not even sure which of these is better than the others. Just regular Corporate Counsel doesn't seem right though. As a comparison point, the new IP guy they hired who had similar years of experience in big law as me got a director title, so they may offer that up.

2. Thinking comp will be in the early $200k range, with bonus opportunities. Given that the company is likely to IPO, should I try to negotiate for a larger option grant as opposed to base pay? I think I would be a good value add for them, given experience, foreign language skills relevant to the company, and just the fact that they already know me well. So hopefully I can leverage all of that a bit.

I had a friend hit a home run after existing to the right private company at the right time, as it promptly went public and was then acquired for a premium soon thereafter, resulting in $$$. So I'm hoping for a similar outcome basically Would welcome any thoughts.

[Sackboy]

Titles all depend on the Company. An Associate GC at a public company could be a top 10 person in a legal department of potential hundreds. An Associate GC at a non-profit, is generally held by anyone who sticks around for 4-5 years. At one company, a VP of legal could be a top 25 person in the company of thousands. At another, like a bank, VP of legal could be a general near-introductory role. I'd say your most likely landing spot here is a director-level position, but it might be classified that way internally and have not as sexy of a title externally.

You can negotiate pay however you like, but I'd give up any aspirations of exiting with a sweet buyout. It could happen, but it's far more likely it won't, and it's so far out of your control that it's not worth thinking about. I'd ask for more base AND options. Don't know why you'd start with the position of I'll cut X if you give me more of Y. Start from I want more X and Y.

[RedGiant]

Recommend you check out the Lawyer Whisperer.

A recent TechGC-X survey (which did not specify geography, but most TechGC members are CA/NY/BOS) would put your base for 7-9 years out of school at 200K.

IME 200K or 220K would be typical in the Bay Area--I have heard that SoCal pays a bit less as the market for in house jobs is tighter. Most counsels (midlevels in biglaw and up) are "Director Level" even though you may not have direct reports or be a manager. Bonus should be 5-20% (10 is typical in the Bay Area amongst my friends who are mostly Counsel/Sr. Counsel and closer to 20 for friends who are AGC).

Your title will largely depend on their plans to build the legal team out and where you'd slot in.

For equity, you should look for a grant that is 60-100K in today's FMV if the company is say, Series C-D.

Hope that helps! You will really enjoy the variety and challenge of being in-house. I do!

[Anonymous User]

Titles all depend on the Company. An Associate GC at a public company could be a top 10 person in a legal department of potential hundreds. An Associate GC at a non-profit, is generally held by anyone who sticks around for 4-5 years. At one company, a VP of legal could be a top 25 person in the company of thousands. At another, like a bank, VP of legal could be a general near-introductory role. I'd say your most likely landing spot here is a director-level position, but it might be classified that way internally and have not as sexy of a title externally.

You can negotiate pay however you like, but I'd give up any aspirations of exiting with a sweet buyout. It could happen, but it's far more likely it won't, and it's so far out of your control that it's not worth thinking about. I'd ask for more base AND options. Don't know why you'd start with the position of I'll cut X if you give me more of Y. Start from I want more X and Y.

Thanks! I hear you - over the years I’ve of course seen my fair share of clients fail, or just barely scrape by for extended periods of time with increasingly desperate methods of fundraising. Not a pretty sight. Appreciate the tips.

[Anonymous User]

That depends entirely on the company. I left biglaw after close to 7 years and was offered 2 different in-house roles, each with very different title. I ended up choosing a place where my 7 years experience made me the most junior attorney in a department of about 15 lawyers, so my title is just Counsel, with multiple levels to rise up. The job I turned down would have been VP-level legal position, but the full package with all things considered still wasn't as good as the position I ended up accepting.

[Anonymous User]

Recommend you check out the Lawyer Whisperer.

A recent TechGC-X survey (which did not specify geography, but most TechGC members are CA/NY/BOS) would put your base for 7-9 years out of school at 200K.

IME 200K or 220K would be typical in the Bay Area--I have heard that SoCal pays a bit less as the market for in house jobs is tighter. Most counsels (midlevels in biglaw and up) are "Director Level" even though you may not have direct reports or be a manager. Bonus should be 5-20% (10 is typical in the Bay Area amongst my friends who are mostly Counsel/Sr. Counsel and closer to 20 for friends who are AGC).

Your title will largely depend on their plans to build the legal team out and where you'd slot in.

For equity, you should look for a grant that is 60-100K in today's FMV if the company is say, Series C-D.

Hope that helps! You will really enjoy the variety and challenge of being in-house. I do!

Super helpful, thank you. I'm in the odd position of, because this is one of my clients, I'm familiar with their cap table and have a good sense of recent option grant sizes. I know the GC's comp too (I drafted the Board resos lol), but don't know exactly for the other legal guy. Based on GC's comp, low $200k base, 15%ish bonus and a decent option grant sound about right. Company raised a Series B recently, and would be great to get in and get a grant before the IPO. On title, I don't think there would be any reason to bring in anyone between me and the GC at my seniority level. Sounding like a Director type title is going to be the most likely.

[Anonymous User]

That depends entirely on the company. I left biglaw after close to 7 years and was offered 2 different in-house roles, each with very different title. I ended up choosing a place where my 7 years experience made me the most junior attorney in a department of about 15 lawyers, so my title is just Counsel, with multiple levels to rise up. The job I turned down would have been VP-level legal position, but the full package with all things considered still wasn't as good as the position I ended up accepting.

Point taken! Since this is currently a two person legal dept, there isn't an established hierarchy of titles, so wanted to know what the ranges of options are.

[Itcamefromthesea]

I think VP - Associate General Counsel (or something along those lines) would be a modest ask and you could ask for Deputy after a year assuming the GC is happy. If they are still building out, they will be much more flexible on titles than comp. Corporate counsel would definitely be selling yourself short when you are the 2nd-ish attorney with 7 years’ experience.