First Year Associate Expectations Forum

[Anonymous User]

Anon because I don't want to out myself to my current employer - but can someone please honestly explain what the expectations are for first year associates? I started recently in biglaw (transactional) and feel like a complete idiot...for example, typos in docs or missing stuff in redlines. All of this stuff is caught by older class years who I submit my work to (I have not sent stuff out to outside parties with errors, those are always caught). Was told this was normal, but not sure if people are just being nice. I also started when business was booming so stuff needed to get done ASAP and was billing like crazy so not sure if that's why the mistakes happened. The worst so far has been doing a diligence project I completely botched (asked for clarification before doing it, but still didn't get any so I tried my best and was upfront about what I struggled with/knew I probably got wrong). On the plus side, I started drafting docs and I'm not sure how normal it is for someone so junior to do that(?). Any assurances or honest criticism is appreciated.

Edit: For clarification, I did not previously summer with this firm and completely switched practice groups (i.e. went from lit to transactional).

[nahumya]

The first 3-4 months are a complete freebie, and people don't expect you to know much or even properly proofread. The only expectation is for you to want to work and improve. After that, you should have learned to listen better, be a little more detail-oriented and thorough, and avoid repeating mistakes more than once. You'll be expected to be able to repeat tasks with slight improvements. Generally, folks understand that first years have a learning curve before they get used to the documents and deals and can efficiently do the work. If business is booming and you're busy, then you're fine so long as no one has to completely redo your work too often. Also, even if you are screwing things up left and right, a good attitude will earn you patience from others.

[Anonymous User]

Are you me? I am a first year, and I feel exactly the same way and am going through the exact same thing...

[Anonymous User]

You need to slow down for the typos. They're not a huge deal, but they're a very easy problem to eliminate. Even if it means sending the document off to whoever wants it 10 minutes, that's fine. Corporate generally just makes up deadlines anyway.

As for your other concerns, those are normal and go away with time. You're going to botch an assignment or two this early on and nobody is going to think anything of it.

Document drafting this early can be normal depending on how busy the firm is, who you're working for, or what specific corporate group you're in. I was drafting day one. It is incredibly intimidating and expect your work product to get heavily edited. That's okay. You'll improve quickly.

I'll also echo everyone else. Try not to make the same mistake more than once and be eager to work. For the first few months, that'll be enough.

[Chardee_MacDennis]

In addition, be responsive. And by that, I don’t mean that everything needs to be done ASAP, but an acknowledgement that you’ve seen an email. Most seniors I know try to be reasonable about providing a timeframe, but if you’re unsure, just ask.

[johndhi]

If you're wondering whether you're doing it wrong, you're doing it right.

Remember this is the business model of these firms: hire new people who don't know what they're doing every year and slowly train them into seniors. Missing nothing and always being right is for the partners and senior associates to worry about. You should be trying your best to help them accomplish that -- noting things they missed, looking really closely at the details -- but if you mess up here or there that's perfectly expected.

One thing to watch out for is being TOO nervous yourself. Remember your goal is to hang here for at least a few years and stack that $$$. If you start being afraid of your shadow and worrying you're doing it wrong too extremely, your quality of life might suffer and you might burn out. Try hard, but also relax after you press 'send.'

[attorney589753]

Senior corp associate and agree with all the advice above. Just think about all you don't know; it's not really so much about where you are starting (almost everyone is startiong at zero) but how quickly you can learn and improve. So not about whether you make a mistake, but are you making the same mistake two times, three times? Are you developing an internal system to prevent typos? (There are already some good suggestions in this thread but a couple other ideas: Try to always do a second and third check of important things like numbers, dollars, names, dates, and give yourself time to review both a clean and redline version as different mistakes might jump out in each version.) Are you figuring out *why* you got the due diligence exercise a bit wrong, so that next time you're working with that person it will be efficient?

Plus honestly in the first six months if you are keeping track of all your deliverables and being responsive, then the people above you are probably going to be way more forgiving on a few typos.

Finally agree with the advice that you don't want to go too far in the opposite direction and becoming overly anxious and nervous. Even mid and senior associates make mistakes and have their work changed by partners. Part of the whole law firm work product is that legal work gets checked and revised by multiple people.

[Anonymous User]

One thing to watch out for is being TOO nervous yourself. Remember your goal is to hang here for at least a few years and stack that $$$. If you start being afraid of your shadow and worrying you're doing it wrong too extremely, your quality of life might suffer and you might burn out. Try hard, but also relax after you press 'send.'

This is me. I feel like I’m suffering in a way that’s not proportionate to my hours, because I’m scared all the time. I can’t seem to shake the constant fear of doing something wrong and it’s making me want to start looking at alternative careers already.

[Whatislaw]

It's part of a bad culture of our industry. It's important to remember you are smart, capable, and able to do the job. It's even more important to know that you should only hold yourself responsible for tasks you have learned or been taught to do. If it's something you lacked information, don't worry about it. Similarly, if you were given poor, incorrect, or even no instruction, also don't worry about it. Take a humble attitude of taking instruction to learn for the future, but don't think lowly of yourself. The first year is a tough transition, but after a while you'll know enough to not feel overwhelmed and you may even find a Partner you enjoy working with who doesn't try and hose you.

[jotarokujo]

One thing to watch out for is being TOO nervous yourself. Remember your goal is to hang here for at least a few years and stack that $$$. If you start being afraid of your shadow and worrying you're doing it wrong too extremely, your quality of life might suffer and you might burn out. Try hard, but also relax after you press 'send.'

This is the most important advice to anyone not going for partner. internalizing this is the most important thing. i saw the same thing in law school. people were way too stressed out in both scenarios when they weren't actually going for a position or outcome that required doing so.

[Anonymous User]

One thing to watch out for is being TOO nervous yourself. Remember your goal is to hang here for at least a few years and stack that $$$. If you start being afraid of your shadow and worrying you're doing it wrong too extremely, your quality of life might suffer and you might burn out. Try hard, but also relax after you press 'send.'

This is the most important advice to anyone not going for partner. internalizing this is the most important thing. i saw the same thing in law school. people were way too stressed out in both scenarios when they weren't actually going for a position or outcome that required doing so.

It's tough because when you're exposed to people who are doing the absolute most all the time, you start to think that's the norm even to just hang around and not get fired. Not to mention all of the firm-sponsored trainings on what it takes to be a good junior associate (answer: devoting your whole life to the firm, of course). I guess I need to befriend more chill, "3 years and out" type juniors, but it's obviously pretty hard to identify them. I wish there was a guide on how to be an ok junior.

[avenuem]

How does "missing stuff in redlines" happen? Legitimately curious. Is the program not capturing the difference between however many documents you're using to do a redline, or do you mean you aren't noticing the differences that the program flags?

I haven't had this issue, but would want to watch out for it if it's something technical that's causing the error.

[4LTsPointingNorth]

How does "missing stuff in redlines" happen? Legitimately curious. Is the program not capturing the difference between however many documents you're using to do a redline, or do you mean you aren't noticing the differences that the program flags?

I haven't had this issue, but would want to watch out for it if it's something technical that's causing the error.

I think "missing stuff in redlines" covers both things: (1) sending redlines marked against the wrong draft (i.e., sending a redline marked against a more recent internal draft rather than against the most recent version of the document that the reviewer or the other side has seen) and (2) literally just not reviewing the redline before you send it, so obvious errors remain in the document that you would have been able to fix if you had taken the time to review the redline before sending it.

[thenewguy]

Be responsive, proof read work, use judgment, use in deal 2 what you learned during deal 1, send that dial-in like a rockstar and be a pleasant person. That's all I can think of in terms of expectations.

[Whatislaw]

The above is a fairly solid general principle to follow. Positive attitude, willingness to improve, humble attitude, and attention to detail are a good foundation for success.

[M458]

One of the prior posts made me think of this, but as a junior, I expect you to maintain version control. That means if new drafts come in from other side, save them as a new version, then save our working draft as a new version on top of that.

Make it clear in the iManage properties what changes were made in each version. I don't want to be scouring through each version on the system late at night to figure out what the right redline is to send to the other side. This is a pretty simple concept, but makes your midlevels and senior's lives easier - if you are having issues with it, ask your mentor or a mid-level.

[Anonymous User]

One thing to watch out for is being TOO nervous yourself. Remember your goal is to hang here for at least a few years and stack that $$$. If you start being afraid of your shadow and worrying you're doing it wrong too extremely, your quality of life might suffer and you might burn out. Try hard, but also relax after you press 'send.'

This is the most important advice to anyone not going for partner. internalizing this is the most important thing. i saw the same thing in law school. people were way too stressed out in both scenarios when they weren't actually going for a position or outcome that required doing so.

It's tough because when you're exposed to people who are doing the absolute most all the time, you start to think that's the norm even to just hang around and not get fired. Not to mention all of the firm-sponsored trainings on what it takes to be a good junior associate (answer: devoting your whole life to the firm, of course). I guess I need to befriend more chill, "3 years and out" type juniors, but it's obviously pretty hard to identify them. I wish there was a guide on how to be an ok junior.

One really important note/lesson: people are often giving much less of themselves than they let on (except for maybe partners or seniors trying to make partner.) That other junior associate whose shooting out emails at 2am, maybe they procrastinated away half the afternoon. Maybe they made time for a family event that evening and are compensating. Maybe they had a slow week beforehand and are now nervously trying to make a good impression because they're worried they're being cut out of a matter. Or maybe they just had the email set to autosend. Even your coworkers who your closer to and more open with are going to present a slightly misleading picture (its human nature, we complain when we are busy but we don't brag when we're slow).

This is especially true during WFH. Most lawyers I know are taking midday breaks to read/cook/workout/play video games to compensate for the late nights and weekend work that pops up. But its impossible to see those breaks from the other side of the computer screen. Most people are working hard (in comparison to other professions) but they're working hard within reason.

[Anonymous User]

When should you ask for more work? If you are on 5 matters and nothing is happening, should we ask? Or hang tight?

[Anonymous User]

When should you ask for more work? If you are on 5 matters and nothing is happening, should we ask? Or hang tight?

[Anonymous User]

When should you ask for more work? If you are on 5 matters and nothing is happening, should we ask? Or hang tight?

ask the midlevels or whoever is supervising you on your busier matters of the 5 if you should. they have more visibility on how much they'll need you.

worst thing that can happen is they all blow up and you have to explain to multiple people why you can't get them what they're asking for, while also being worked half to death

[emc91]

When am I expected to bring my laptop, as opposed to just my work phone, with me when I leave the house? If I leave for 20 mins to grab lunch? What about after business hours and on weekends? Is it safe to go to dinner on a Saturday night or to a doctor’s appointment on a Saturday without my laptop?

[avenuem]

When am I expected to bring my laptop, as opposed to just my work phone, with me when I leave the house? If I leave for 20 mins to grab lunch? What about after business hours and on weekends? Is it safe to go to dinner on a Saturday night or to a doctor’s appointment on a Saturday without my laptop?

Depends on your firm, but I'd bring your laptop anywhere you plan to be for more than an hour or so that has an internet connection and is a reasonable place to work. At my V5, not a weekend goes by where I don't get work, so if I'm visiting my girlfriend (even if just on Saturday or Sunday) I take the laptop. For a doctors appointment, 20 minute run, or something like a restaurant, just your phone, because it wouldn't be reasonable to break out the laptop in those situations. For a lunch or dinner at a law school friend's home, who has internet, I'd take the laptop because the meeting wouldn't have been arranged without me setting the expectation that work could come up and as a friend and person familiar with biglaw they would get it. You can imagine why it's more acceptable to have in some places and not others.

[Dcc617]

Terrible advice. Sure, if you're expecting or anticipating something going crazy, then plan to be able to get to your laptop within an hour or so. Amidst a weekend fire I've brought my laptop and mobile hotspot to a park before so I can shoot off a few emails without having to go all the way home.

If you're not expecting anything, don't worry about bringing your laptop unless you're going somewhere overnight. If something is out of the blue on a weekend you can just acknowledge receipt and tell them you'll get back to them once you're back in front of a computer.

Av is crazy.

[Elston Gunn]

When am I expected to bring my laptop, as opposed to just my work phone, with me when I leave the house? If I leave for 20 mins to grab lunch? What about after business hours and on weekends? Is it safe to go to dinner on a Saturday night or to a doctor’s appointment on a Saturday without my laptop?

Unless you have a reason to expect that something might come up you need to drop everything for, all of those are situations where you don’t need to bring your laptop. (May vary based on practice group or the people you work with, I guess, but that all seems unreasonable to me.)

[emc91]

Terrible advice. Sure, if you're expecting or anticipating something going crazy, then plan to be able to get to your laptop within an hour or so. Amidst a weekend fire I've brought my laptop and mobile hotspot to a park before so I can shoot off a few emails without having to go all the way home.

If you're not expecting anything, don't worry about bringing your laptop unless you're going somewhere overnight. If something is out of the blue on a weekend you can just acknowledge receipt and tell them you'll get back to them once you're back in front of a computer.

Av is crazy.

Thanks. Yeah, I’m also not at a V5... lower V100. My firm seems to be fairly chill compared to some of the firms people discuss on here (like avenue’s), but it’s still biglaw and I’m still confused about expectations and boundaries sometimes.