Why do we even do this? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Incoming fifth year. Finally debt free, have a rainy day fund, and am in process of saving for a down payment for a house.

Not really even sure the purpose of a thread like this. Idk maybe to whine and just see if I can commiserate with some like-minded/situated folks. Do we even know why we continue to work ourselves to death? What is the point? Have any of you figured out the dream job to exit out of? Been fantasizing a lot about just running my own practice but not sure if that's just a pipe dream.

[Definitely Not North]

Incoming fifth year. Finally debt free, have a rainy day fund, and am in process of saving for a down payment for a house.

Not really even sure the purpose of a thread like this. Idk maybe to whine and just see if I can commiserate with some like-minded/situated folks. Do we even know why we continue to work ourselves to death? What is the point? Have any of you figured out the dream job to exit out of? Been fantasizing a lot about just running my own practice but not sure if that's just a pipe dream.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/fi ... y-fire.asp

[Anonymous User]

Also incoming 5th year in similar circumstances. The savings rate is really kicking into high gear now so I'm hoping to hang on for 2-4 more years to make this whole law school scam worth it monetarily. Looking at either saving enough money for 10 years of FIRE or 30 years of FIRE.

For me though practicing any type of law seems just as miserable -- just with better hours. So lateralling doesn't really seem better.

[Anonymous User]

How did you guys even do this for 4 years? I just started in October and it seems unfathomable. Sometimes I feel like I’d literally rather be a janitor or something. IBR is looking better every day.

[Anonymous User]

also a mid level wondering the same thing. i just dont see much value in practicing law (corporate law) in any setting - it is boring, meaningless and stressful. For a better quality of life, i do daydream about going in house so i can coast on a 9-5 schedule, but as savings rate is kicking in, i am trying my best to survive another 2-4 years so i can build enough nest egg for a semi-FIRE. i did consider moving out of law into biz side (eg consulting which seems to hire JDs/attorneys frequently or startup scene) and i do think ill enjoy the biz side more in theory but at the end of the day any interesting job in the biz side will probably entail long hours/stress, which at this stage of my life (i am a bit older than my peers and have a family), dont think is worth it. i rather be financially independent so that i have more flexibility and freedom to spend more time with my family/work on my hobbies.

[Anonymous User]

How did you guys even do this for 4 years? I just started in October and it seems unfathomable. Sometimes I feel like I’d literally rather be a janitor or something. IBR is looking better every day.

it is hard and sometimes i wonder how i made it this far. i was miserable during my first year and thought about quitting about 3 months into the job. it got better once i stopped caring about doing perfect work and stopped taking any negative feedback personally. i also switched firms and people at my current firm is much better. id definitely recommend switching firms/practice groups at least once before leaving biglaw - you may click with the new firm better and also give you some more time to earn that biglaw salary.

[Definitely Not North]

Time just starts to move really, really fast after about 1.5 years

[objctnyrhnr]

To this day, I am not sure how anybody does anything that’s not litigation.

And even litigation sucks unless you are 1. Really really into it and 2. No longer a first/second year.

[Anonymous User]

To the juniors posting ITT - I would be patient. Being a junior sucks. The work gets way more interesting as you get more senior and you get more responsibility, and you start actually feeling like a lawyer.

That said, it's not really worth it other than the paycheck, which is why were all doing it (either because we need to support a family or because we want FI some day).

I've personally fantasized about doing semi fire and opening a shit law practice. I'm not sure how feasible it will be though because I'm in transactional biglaw (I did this to make sure I had exit options but now I realize those exit options don't appeal to me)

[emc91]

I don’t know why people who aren’t part sociopath do this after they’ve paid off debt and built a bit of a nest egg. It’s a miserable job.

Thankfully my student loan debt is extremely minimal. I plan to leave after year 2-3 to either go in house or get an MBA. I’m not wasting my life as a biglaw lawyer. I don’t know why people do. There are other ways to FIRE.

[emc91]

How did you guys even do this for 4 years? I just started in October and it seems unfathomable. Sometimes I feel like I’d literally rather be a janitor or something. IBR is looking better every day.

it is hard and sometimes i wonder how i made it this far. i was miserable during my first year and thought about quitting about 3 months into the job. it got better once i stopped caring about doing perfect work and stopped taking any negative feedback personally. i also switched firms and people at my current firm is much better. id definitely recommend switching firms/practice groups at least once before leaving biglaw - you may click with the new firm better and also give you some more time to earn that biglaw salary.

Also, this. I’m a junior and even I don’t fret about doing perfect work. I try my hardest and ask questions but at the end of the day, it’s just a job. The extent to which you stress yourself out about it is somewhat of a personal choice.

[Anonymous User]

Can't speak to why anyone else does it or did it, but at least for me, I did it to set myself up for an eventual shift into a job I am passionate about. Made the shift to an awesome in-house role after 6 years of biglaw. It was a rough 6 years, but it propelled me toward and prepared me for my current role. While in biglaw, I always focused on that light at the end of the tunnel, because I had a concrete plan in mind. I would imagine it would become pretty unbearable if I had no eventual exit plan and next steps in mind. The end goal is always what drives the effort for me. I wouldn't have made it if everything were in-the-moment and open ended.

[Anonymous User]

16 months in biglaw and I'm putting in notice tomorrow, as I've accepted a job as a public defender.

I can't imagine doing this work long term. The only times I didn't hate it was when I was slow.

[Anonymous User]

Can't speak to why anyone else does it or did it, but at least for me, I did it to set myself up for an eventual shift into a job I am passionate about. Made the shift to an awesome in-house role after 6 years of biglaw. It was a rough 6 years, but it propelled me toward and prepared me for my current role. While in biglaw, I always focused on that light at the end of the tunnel, because I had a concrete plan in mind. I would imagine it would become pretty unbearable if I had no eventual exit plan and next steps in mind. The end goal is always what drives the effort for me. I wouldn't have made it if everything were in-the-moment and open ended.

To each his own, but I don't really get how someone can be "passionate" about being a back office cog at a multinational corporation.

[Anonymous User]

How did you guys even do this for 4 years? I just started in October and it seems unfathomable. Sometimes I feel like I’d literally rather be a janitor or something. IBR is looking better every day.

it is hard and sometimes i wonder how i made it this far. i was miserable during my first year and thought about quitting about 3 months into the job. it got better once i stopped caring about doing perfect work and stopped taking any negative feedback personally. i also switched firms and people at my current firm is much better. id definitely recommend switching firms/practice groups at least once before leaving biglaw - you may click with the new firm better and also give you some more time to earn that biglaw salary.

Also, this. I’m a junior and even I don’t fret about doing perfect work. I try my hardest and ask questions but at the end of the day, it’s just a job. The extent to which you stress yourself out about it is somewhat of a personal choice.

I stress about what it means to do my best in this job. Like if I sent my supervisor a long document without triple checking my work because I was ready to be done, is that doing my best? There are often times where I feel like I could have done more but didn’t want to. Giving 100% all the time is exhausting, not giving 100% stresses me out.

[nixy]

Can't speak to why anyone else does it or did it, but at least for me, I did it to set myself up for an eventual shift into a job I am passionate about. Made the shift to an awesome in-house role after 6 years of biglaw. It was a rough 6 years, but it propelled me toward and prepared me for my current role. While in biglaw, I always focused on that light at the end of the tunnel, because I had a concrete plan in mind. I would imagine it would become pretty unbearable if I had no eventual exit plan and next steps in mind. The end goal is always what drives the effort for me. I wouldn't have made it if everything were in-the-moment and open ended.

To each his own, but I don't really get how someone can be "passionate" about being a back office cog at a multinational corporation.

I mean that's a pretty broad brush to describe all in-house jobs.

[Anonymous User]

I made the switch to in-house right at the beginning of my fifth year, and the difference in my attitude toward work and life in general has been night and day. I'm still drafting contracts, which some might find utterly uninspiring and boring no matter what, but I'm much more interested in the substance of my work now because I'm really excited about the industry my company is in. More importantly, my work life balance is better than I ever thought it could be: no more billing hours, everyone has taken off the last two weeks of the year for the holidays, and no more fire drill weekends stuck in the office. I think my in-house role is relatively busier than other in-house roles, but having my weekends back makes even the busiest work week more bearable knowing that I have a light at the end of the tunnel. Of course having paid off my student loans and having around $200k net worth by the time I left big law made the switch to in-house a no-brainer for me (and I still make $200k+ in my in-house role).

It was only when I got my in-house role that I finally felt like the last ten years of my life (studying for the LSAT, applying for law school, going to law school and working in big law) somewhat paid off. Up until then, I felt super bitter about my choice to go to law school when I compared my life to other non-big law friends with much less debt, brighter career prospects and obviously better work life balance. If I could do it all over again, I would choose a different path, even if I had the knowledge of where I'd eventually end up in-house - though I know hindsight is always 20/20, grass is always greener, etc. Big law sucks, and some people get stuck in the misery for a long time for many legitimate reasons (bad luck joining a group with poor exit options, being the sole breadwinner for their family living in a HCOL area, too much debt to pay off, etc.). The other people who stick it out in big law for a long time solely because they love money and feeling "important" tend to be sociopaths/people I would generally not want to be friends with outside of work.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

ITT: People who will wind up with $800k homes in Westchester.

[Anonymous User]

Can't speak to why anyone else does it or did it, but at least for me, I did it to set myself up for an eventual shift into a job I am passionate about. Made the shift to an awesome in-house role after 6 years of biglaw. It was a rough 6 years, but it propelled me toward and prepared me for my current role. While in biglaw, I always focused on that light at the end of the tunnel, because I had a concrete plan in mind. I would imagine it would become pretty unbearable if I had no eventual exit plan and next steps in mind. The end goal is always what drives the effort for me. I wouldn't have made it if everything were in-the-moment and open ended.

To each his own, but I don't really get how someone can be "passionate" about being a back office cog at a multinational corporation.

"follow your passions" is BS. Having a reasonable work life balance and still getting a decent salary will make you "passionate" about the work.

[Anonymous User]

i did five years at various v-20s -- in pursuit of work that would make me happy / or with colleagues i'd like more. never found it. never enjoyed it. loved the money, but found my life to feel so empty. saved, have a great 401k in place, lived well, and finally, after years of working i found a non-legal, 9-5 job, in tech / law where I'm not practicing with a 150k base + 100% bonus potential, with NO billables. It's the greatest joy to work like this. to anyone suffering, all i can say is that it's possible to strike gold. mind you, i was rejected from 99% of the places i applied. probably 99.9%.

[Anonymous User]

Can't speak to why anyone else does it or did it, but at least for me, I did it to set myself up for an eventual shift into a job I am passionate about. Made the shift to an awesome in-house role after 6 years of biglaw. It was a rough 6 years, but it propelled me toward and prepared me for my current role. While in biglaw, I always focused on that light at the end of the tunnel, because I had a concrete plan in mind. I would imagine it would become pretty unbearable if I had no eventual exit plan and next steps in mind. The end goal is always what drives the effort for me. I wouldn't have made it if everything were in-the-moment and open ended.

To each his own, but I don't really get how someone can be "passionate" about being a back office cog at a multinational corporation.

"follow your passions" is BS. Having a reasonable work life balance and still getting a decent salary will make you "passionate" about the work.

I don't disagree with that. I just find it odd to think that anyone could be passionate about being in house. Even if you're passionate about the company's mission, you're their lawyers--youre ancillary to their mission and a necessary cost.

[emc91]

I just feel terrible for those with high debt loads. I regret law school with everything in me, but at least I only have $30k in debt.

More law students need to be aware of how awful biglaw is. Paying $300k just to work in biglaw for five years is a nightmare.

[Anonymous User]

If you aren't happy and you want to stay in biglaw, you should find a new firm. Having worked at three firms, who you work for makes a huge difference. Plenty of associates work for chill partners who let them bill 1800 + 200 pro bono for seven years with minimal stress.

[Vr1234]

If you aren't happy and you want to stay in biglaw, you should find a new firm. Having worked at three firms, who you work for makes a huge difference. Plenty of associates work for chill partners who let them bill 1800 + 200 pro bono for seven years with minimal stress.

lol these are the posts that are highly misleading. first of all, doubt it. maybe if you're at a top tier lit practice at a white shoe firm. maybe sull crom, cleary, davis polk would let a litigation associate do big pro bono cases. even then, there'd be a point where you'd need to put in billable hours for big corporates. beyond that, there's nothing much.

[Anonymous User]

Can't speak to why anyone else does it or did it, but at least for me, I did it to set myself up for an eventual shift into a job I am passionate about. Made the shift to an awesome in-house role after 6 years of biglaw. It was a rough 6 years, but it propelled me toward and prepared me for my current role. While in biglaw, I always focused on that light at the end of the tunnel, because I had a concrete plan in mind. I would imagine it would become pretty unbearable if I had no eventual exit plan and next steps in mind. The end goal is always what drives the effort for me. I wouldn't have made it if everything were in-the-moment and open ended.

To each his own, but I don't really get how someone can be "passionate" about being a back office cog at a multinational corporation.

Can't really go into too much detail, but my particular role is pretty much the opposite of what you described above. The organization is super mission-driven and meaningful, and I get to work directly with the top executives at the place on a regular basis. Its pretty much a dream job. Wouldn't have left biglaw for any random in house role, and I certainly didn't mean to suggest that any in-house role is going to be meaningful or rewarding. The light at the end of the tunnel while in big law wasn't just making a jump to in house. It was something much more specific than that, and I took a very targeted approach toward hitting that goal. But the point is to focus on your goal, whatever it may be or how others might view it.