Looking to lateral, are there scammers vs legit recruiters? Forum

[Anonymous User]

I may be looking to lateral soon, depending on the job market (I'm a junior looking to do broader corporate work). Should I just accept every email/call from alleged recruiters or is there a way to tell if somebody is just scamming or something? I got an email from "Novas Lexus USA" and am wondering whether I should respond (I think TLS advice is split on whether to use recruiters or not but I wouldn't mind even just talking to get some advice or something)

Additionally, more of a general lateral question, do I need references from my current job? I am very uncomfortable going to anybody on my team or the partner for a reference should the position fall through. Would I include previous internship references?

[Anonymous User]

Currently in the process myself. I think it’s a total crapshoot. There are reputable recruiters in specific markets. But I’ve noticed that many of the large places (Parker and Lynch, Major Lindsey Africa, Lateral Link) usually are looking to quickly place associates in posted positions so they can collect a fee. I tend to think recruiters are useless for posted positions unless you’re such a slam dunk candidate that the firm is willing to swallow the recruiter fee to get you. And a lot of these recruiters don’t have the personal relationships with decision makers to make a difference (they’ve only been recruiting for like 2-3 years). I don’t think all are terrible though. I’ve worked with an excellent Parker & Lynch recruiter in NY before.

Additionally, while some know the market, others only know basics, like info they probably learned at a team meeting. It’s impersonal and idk if using that recruiter would help in any material way.

I’ve worked with a couple local recruiters and they’ve been extremely helpful. But I’ve noticed some are also just as useless as well.

TLDR: it’s all random.

[malibustacy]

Best source is always asking mentors or classmates who have lateraled for recommendations.

[Anonymous User]

I may be looking to lateral soon, depending on the job market (I'm a junior looking to do broader corporate work). Should I just accept every email/call from alleged recruiters or is there a way to tell if somebody is just scamming or something? I got an email from "Novas Lexus USA" and am wondering whether I should respond (I think TLS advice is split on whether to use recruiters or not but I wouldn't mind even just talking to get some advice or something)

Additionally, more of a general lateral question, do I need references from my current job? I am very uncomfortable going to anybody on my team or the partner for a reference should the position fall through. Would I include previous internship references?

There are definitely scams and the one you name is one of them, speaking from experience. I mean that these people lie about the firms they’re working for and the positions that are available.

[ughbugchugplug]

How about BCG? Are they good/reputable?

[Anonymous User]

Tagging in. How about Swan Legal and AJW Attorney Search?

[Anonymous User]

Based on my experience, I think a recruiter is only useful in two instances:

1) the recruiter is the only one working on filling an unposted position

or

2) it's an in-house or alternative legal position where the company has a hard time attracting JDs.

Also, before you hand over your resume, Google the firm to see if the position is posted, if so, you really should apply on your own.

[Anonymous User]

Based on my experience, I think a recruiter is only useful in two instances:

1) the recruiter is the only one working on filling an unposted position

or

2) it's an in-house or alternative legal position where the company has a hard time attracting JDs.

Also, before you hand over your resume, Google the firm to see if the position is posted, if so, you really should apply on your own.

Is it fair to say that the only way to figure out if the recruiter is working on an unposted position is cross-checking the firm's website? What about the only one working aspect? How would one check for that?

[Anonymous User]

Based on my experience, I think a recruiter is only useful in two instances:

1) the recruiter is the only one working on filling an unposted position

or

2) it's an in-house or alternative legal position where the company has a hard time attracting JDs.

Also, before you hand over your resume, Google the firm to see if the position is posted, if so, you really should apply on your own.

Is it fair to say that the only way to figure out if the recruiter is working on an unposted position is cross-checking the firm's website? What about the only one working aspect? How would one check for that?

To your first question, yes, and it's pretty easy to do, you could even Google the description they provide, as most times it's copied and pasted from the firm's website. This is also the way to confirm whether they are the only ones working on filling the role. The firm wouldn't exclusively engage a recruiter to fill a position they've publicly posted on their website, because why would they need the recruiter? You can also ask them when they reach out if they are the only ones working on the role, and if they start avoiding answering the question directly and/or you can find the position listed on the firm's website, I'd apply on your own.

Keep in mind you're your best asset, and no one can sell you like you can, especially not some random person who hit up your LinkedIn or firm website bio...

[Anonymous User]

Newbie here...what is the process for lateraling? Do you just contact recruiting or hire a recruiter?

[Anonymous User]

Based on my experience, I think a recruiter is only useful in two instances:

1) the recruiter is the only one working on filling an unposted position

or

2) it's an in-house or alternative legal position where the company has a hard time attracting JDs.

Also, before you hand over your resume, Google the firm to see if the position is posted, if so, you really should apply on your own.

Is it fair to say that the only way to figure out if the recruiter is working on an unposted position is cross-checking the firm's website? What about the only one working aspect? How would one check for that?

To your first question, yes, and it's pretty easy to do, you could even Google the description they provide, as most times it's copied and pasted from the firm's website. This is also the way to confirm whether they are the only ones working on filling the role. The firm wouldn't exclusively engage a recruiter to fill a position they've publicly posted on their website, because why would they need the recruiter? You can also ask them when they reach out if they are the only ones working on the role, and if they start avoiding answering the question directly and/or you can find the position listed on the firm's website, I'd apply on your own.

Keep in mind you're your best asset, and no one can sell you like you can, especially not some random person who hit up your LinkedIn or firm website bio...

There are some firms that don’t post jobs, so you should also reach out to classmates in some instances. For example, 3 or so recruiters emailed me about a Proskauer position, which was “unposted,” but I had already submitted through a friend a few months before.

[Anonymous User]

Helpful! Thank you both! What are people's takes on cover letters these days? Still following the old template of interested, here's what I've done at my current job, and thanks for your time? Do people still give a hoot about law school grades for a 4th year lateral?

[Anonymous User]

Helpful! Thank you both! What are people's takes on cover letters these days? Still following the old template of interested, here's what I've done at my current job, and thanks for your time? Do people still give a hoot about law school grades for a 4th year lateral?

With regard to cover letters, I think you should have template, but same with your resume, it should be tailored to the firm/position. In my experience, I don't think a cover letter will make or break you, and sometimes it seems like a way to maybe detour people who are too lazy to draft and submit one with their application.

As for grades, I think it depends on the firm. Some care more about it than others for laterals, but you'll never really know if it was the reason you were dinged unless they tell you.

[nahumya]

How about BCG? Are they good/reputable?

Harrison Barnes has a mixed reputation but I found him really knowledgeable and not pushy at all.

Also, as a first step, laterally.com is good resource.

[Anonymous User]

Hi all, original OP here, thanks for all the answers!
Does anybody have any info on BCSsearch recruiters?

This recruiter seemed very promising, but seemed very confident in doing things that TLS seems to disagree with, like getting interviews/offers within 45 days or less + flexible start date, firms actually preferring to work with recruiters, etc. I guess I'm wondering, is there any downside to working with him for a little while at least? Or could this bite me in the butt in some way?

Also, any more info on laterally.com? Has it worked for people?

[Anonymous User]

Hi all, original OP here, thanks for all the answers!
Does anybody have any info on BCSsearch recruiters?

This recruiter seemed very promising, but seemed very confident in doing things that TLS seems to disagree with, like getting interviews/offers within 45 days or less + flexible start date, firms actually preferring to work with recruiters, etc. I guess I'm wondering, is there any downside to working with him for a little while at least? Or could this bite me in the butt in some way?

Also, any more info on laterally.com? Has it worked for people?

I don't see the harm but still be cautious. If the posting is listed on the firm's website, I really would apply yourself. And I would grill the heck out his claims that firms prefer to work with recruiters, like, what exact advantage does he have that you don't on your own?

[Anonymous User]

I just started working with a new recruiter because my other always said that firms preferred working with recruiters. This new recruiter said it’s a lie. He said it makes no sense for a firm to use a recruiter AND still post a job that’ll receive hundreds of applications. He said he would only focus on unposted, which I prefer.

[Anonymous User]

REALLY wish I saw this thread before starting my own lateral process. At the time I was looking, there was enough ambiguity on these boards as to the benefit of using a recruiter - some benefits are obvious in the sense that they are like your secretary and can coordinate scheduling on your behalf*, but there are posts on this board indicating that individuals have submitted on their own, only to be rejected, and then shortly thereafter, were placed at the very firms that rejected them solely because they used a recruiter. This gives the impression that agencies can get you in front of the eyes of actual decision makers at your lateral destination and indeed, when you speak to a lot of these recruiters, this always seems to be a talking point. Please just read this thread and recognize that this is bullshit for the most part - they are not the recruiter of choice, their relationships to these firms are tenuous at best and they 100% will not be giving you any extra "access" versus applying on your own. As a previous poster mentioned, you are your own best advocate. Relatedly, from what I can gather, cover letters can be important - spend the time and tailor them as noted in this thread. A recruiting agency will 100% use a generic cover letter that will be passed up unless your stats are out of this world. From my perspective, the only time it makes sense to use a recruiter is if the opportunity is exclusive or if you are an all-star that can't be bothered with the application process.

Another thing recruiting agencies like to tout as a benefit is their ability to prepare you for your interviews. In practice, this can be nothing more than a cut and paste of the bio of the partner you will be interviewing with, the inside view of chambers-associates and some other blurbs from legal 500.

* Unless you are completely underwater, this should not be a consideration in using a recruiter - the time it takes to coordinate on your own and submit your own application saves you about 20 minutes, whereas their submission of your materials can adversely impact you (higher cost to the firm which makes you a less desirable candidate, using generic form materials that will certainly detract from your application, etc.).

[Anonymous User]

REALLY wish I saw this thread before starting my own lateral process. At the time I was looking, there was enough ambiguity on these boards as to the benefit of using a recruiter - some benefits are obvious in the sense that they are like your secretary and can coordinate scheduling on your behalf*, but there are posts on this board indicating that individuals have submitted on their own, only to be rejected, and then shortly thereafter, were placed at the very firms that rejected them solely because they used a recruiter. This gives the impression that agencies can get you in front of the eyes of actual decision makers at your lateral destination and indeed, when you speak to a lot of these recruiters, this always seems to be a talking point. Please just read this thread and recognize that this is bullshit for the most part - they are not the recruiter of choice, their relationships to these firms are tenuous at best and they 100% will not be giving you any extra "access" versus applying on your own. As a previous poster mentioned, you are your own best advocate. Relatedly, from what I can gather, cover letters can be important - spend the time and tailor them as noted in this thread. A recruiting agency will 100% use a generic cover letter that will be passed up unless your stats are out of this world. From my perspective, the only time it makes sense to use a recruiter is if the opportunity is exclusive or if you are an all-star that can't be bothered with the application process.

Another thing recruiting agencies like to tout as a benefit is their ability to prepare you for your interviews. In practice, this can be nothing more than a cut and paste of the bio of the partner you will be interviewing with, the inside view of chambers-associates and some other blurbs from legal 500.

* Unless you are completely underwater, this should not be a consideration in using a recruiter - the time it takes to coordinate on your own and submit your own application saves you about 20 minutes, whereas their submission of your materials can adversely impact you (higher cost to the firm which makes you a less desirable candidate, using generic form materials that will certain detract from your application, etc.).

I’m one of the previous posters and I 100% agree with this. A recruiter submitted me at a firm and I got an email from the firm to fill in demographic information. There, I saw the cover letter the recruiter drafted. It explained less than my own cover letter as to why I’m trying to leave my firm and the narrative wasn’t exactly what I had described on my 30-minute call with the recruiter. It was actually atrociously written and I stopped working with that recruiter (grammatical errors, spelling mistakes, etc.).

Unless a job is truly unposted (and you don’t want to email blast every firm) or you are a stellar candidate (T-14/top 25% at a tier 1 AND Vault ranked firm or chambers nationally ranked practice, etc.), it usually makes no sense to use a recruiter. I too wish someone had told me this before using a recruiter. If you read the LinkedIn testimonials of recruiters, most of the associates they place are stellar applicants and/or in extremely niche practice areas.

Ask yourself why a firm would want to pay a recruiter $60k+ for an average candidate when it is receiving hundreds of applications from better candidates with no finder’s fee attached. The recruiter will say that it’s because of their relationship.

There are some recruiters with amazing relationships with firms, but that alone won’t get you an interview.