Do LargeFirms avoid hiring older attorneys fresh out of lawschool? Forum

[Indecision16]

I saw a number of articles and I wanted to see if anyone has any personal experience with this.


I have been considering lawschool for quite some time now. Since my senior year of college and I will likely not admit until I’m 35. So I will bring 38 when I’m done.


I’ve read that large law firms like younger new hires so they can be more mailable...etc

Is this just a myth? Does it depend on the employer?

[WhatIsLaw69]

I saw a number of articles and I wanted to see if anyone has any personal experience with this.


I have been considering lawschool for quite some time now. Since my senior year of college and I will likely not admit until I’m 35. So I will bring 38 when I’m done.


I’ve read that large law firms like younger new hires so they can be more mailable...etc

Is this just a myth? Does it depend on the employer?

I'll be in a similar boat. The way it was explained to me is that younger grads are less likely to have a ton of commitment outside work (think family), and thus are more receptive to the brutal hour count. I'm not sure if this is the case at most firms, hoping someone else will elaborate.

[Anonymous User]

I saw a number of articles and I wanted to see if anyone has any personal experience with this.


I have been considering lawschool for quite some time now. Since my senior year of college and I will likely not admit until I’m 35. So I will bring 38 when I’m done.


I’ve read that large law firms like younger new hires so they can be more mailable...etc

Is this just a myth? Does it depend on the employer?

Triple post somehow

[Anonymous User]

I saw a number of articles and I wanted to see if anyone has any personal experience with this.


I have been considering lawschool for quite some time now. Since my senior year of college and I will likely not admit until I’m 35. So I will bring 38 when I’m done.


I’ve read that large law firms like younger new hires so they can be more mailable...etc

Is this just a myth? Does it depend on the employer?

Triple post somehow.

[Anonymous User]

I saw a number of articles and I wanted to see if anyone has any personal experience with this.


I have been considering lawschool for quite some time now. Since my senior year of college and I will likely not admit until I’m 35. So I will bring 38 when I’m done.


I’ve read that large law firms like younger new hires so they can be more mailable...etc

Is this just a myth? Does it depend on the employer?

In my hiring experience at a couple of firms and seeing my classmates from law school, there aren't very many candidates at your age. Of those that are at your age, most don't want to go to a big firm. Of those that do, most over perform their numbers in terms of hiring as they typically have several years of quality work experience and a compelling reason for why they went to law school and want to work at a big firm.

I couldn't imagine being 38, working as a first year associate and staying up all night compiling documents and frantically asking for status updates. But, if some 38 year old tells me that's what he wants to do, I tend to believe them and suspect they won't be as disillusioned as some k-jd when they see the shit associated and partners are actually doing.

[nixy]

I think there can be some preference for newbies who can be molded, but it’s absolutely not universal. As noted, a lot of employers will like the professionalism and experience of an older applicant. If you have the qualifications for biglaw (school ans grades), you will have your shot regardless of age.

Older students I know did get asked directly about working with younger people, and some employers probably wonder about it without asking, but it’s easy to rebut - I know people who made a point of talking about their experience working with KJD students in moot court and law review and such. As long as you can show in an interview that you don’t have a bad attitude (won’t resent someone younger than you giving you orders, won’t think you should move up faster or get assignments beyond your legal experience level), age won’t be an issue.

Keep in mind that at most top schools OCI is a lottery process where schools won’t see your resume/transcript until you have an interview scheduled, so firms can’t rule you out before even interviewing you. I do think that at some pre-select schools people occasionally saw firms’ interviews skewing to KJD, but again, this wasn’t universal or even common.

So while I think there may be some preference for younger applicants out there, it’s not at all prevailing enough to prevent someone from going to law school as an older applicant.

(And frankly I think age/experience is usually seen as a plus in most legal jobs out there. Any concerns about age are more specific to biglaw. But as with everything, at the end of the day it will depend on the specific employer. Nothing is guaranteed, but again, it’s not something that should prevent anyone who wants to go to law school from doing so.)

[gregfootball2001]

As one purely anecdotal data point, I graduated law school in my mid- to upper-thirties. I started my career in midlaw, and two years later lateraled to a v50. No age issues at either place.

[Indecision16]

I tried editing my original post Because I was incredibly tired when I wrote it but it won’t let me.

[Anonymous User]

There definitely are older junior associates at a lot of firms. I've noticed this especially in patent groups, since a lot of desirable candidates had prior careers as engineers/researchers, etc. You might experience some interviewers who will question whether you can keep up with the pace (compared to 25-year-old recent grads), so when you get to interviews, just make sure you come across as high-energy and eager to do the grunt work that junior associates have to put up with.

[Anonymous User]

As one purely anecdotal data point, I graduated law school in my mid- to upper-thirties. I started my career in midlaw, and two years later lateraled to a v50. No age issues at either place.

Can I ask what you did prior to law?

[Anonymous User]

My firm hired a former surgeon who was unable to continue practicing due to nerve damage in his hands. He was in his 50s.

I personally knew multiple people got hired in their low to mid 30s.

[Anonymous User]

I'm a 35 year old junior associate in a V5 corporate shop--I didn't perceive any bias or issues with being a bit older than the rest of my cohort. If anything, I think it made answering "why do you want to do this job" style questions easier--or at least the answers are probably afforded a small amount more weight than from a 25 year old (though maybe not, who knows).

I also don't think I'm treated any differently (better or worse) on account of being ~8-10 years older.

[gregfootball2001]

As one purely anecdotal data point, I graduated law school in my mid- to upper-thirties. I started my career in midlaw, and two years later lateraled to a v50. No age issues at either place.

Can I ask what you did prior to law?

I was in the entertainment business, think musical theater, opera, etc.

[HIREMEPLZ]

In addition to the aforementioned work experience (which goes a long way as evidence of their basic aptitude as a professional from day one), older applicants are also often seen as a lower flight risk. Less years left to reasonably switch careers again, and higher likelihood of family obligations making them depend on the income and have more difficulty relocating. They may also be less likely to think the grass is greener outside of the firm if they’ve experienced the bullshit of other jobs before and aren’t just comparing it to school.

[tlsguy2020]

They may also be less likely to think the grass is greener outside of the firm if they’ve experienced the bullshit of other jobs before and aren’t just comparing it to school.

Do you think this ever goes the other way? Younger associates less likely to jump because they don’t realize that jobs don’t have to be the meatgrinder that firms can be

[2013]

They may also be less likely to think the grass is greener outside of the firm if they’ve experienced the bullshit of other jobs before and aren’t just comparing it to school.

Do you think this ever goes the other way? Younger associates less likely to jump because they don’t realize that jobs don’t have to be the meatgrinder that firms can be

No. Firms have decades of data showing their associate attrition rates. Most associates are younger.

[2013]

A friend of mine went to a respected pre-select school that places pretty well in biglaw (40-50%). She was 37 at the time of OCI. She was in the top 20%.

She only got one screener (a similar ranked/aged classmate got 2 screeners). I think where you go to school matters. I think that if you’re at a lottery system school, you’ll be better off. I think firms will gravitate away from someone in their late 30s until they meet them because of some of the concerns listed above.

I work with a few older associates, and they are great. The partners seem to like them and their work ethic. I believe most are on reduced schedules now, but that’s understandable with covid.

[Anonymous User]

They may also be less likely to think the grass is greener outside of the firm if they’ve experienced the bullshit of other jobs before and aren’t just comparing it to school.

Do you think this ever goes the other way? Younger associates less likely to jump because they don’t realize that jobs don’t have to be the meatgrinder that firms can be

It’s hard to say for sure but anecdotally I don’t think so. They’ve been constantly bombarded with horror stories about how bad BigLaw is (mostly told by other former KJDs with little else to compare it to) so it’s not like they’re blissfully unaware. They’re also probably exposed to the supposed glamour of other industries from the outside, whether through running into those people, reading about them, or frankly seeing it on TV.

To your underlying point though, it’s true that other jobs aren’t the same meat grinder. But I think it’s safe to say that basically any other similarly compensated or desirable job will be just as bad if not worse. Banking, consulting, medicine, advertising, Big Four accounting, big tech, startups, PE, engineering, most highly paid corporate roles, etc. are all also meatgrinders to some degree. To get a relief from the hours/pressure you basically need to take a pay cut or be in some ultra niche specialty that your average BigLaw lawyer is unlikely to fill. Even then, plenty of people work similarly bad hours with lots of stress despite making way less money. Also, all of the “sexy” jobs require a ton of bullshit as well - most of the complaints I hear about firms would apply similarly to many other industries.

One place where it might differ is at the partner level, because they seem to work harder for their money than comparable top-level owners would in some other industries (because they are still frontline service providers and reliant on a billable hour). But for associates I don’t think any similarly-paid grass is much greener.

[Anonymous User]

Anon because of potential out-

I went to school part time, and will be mid 30s when I graduate this year. I have an offer at a V10 major market. There are other nontraditional hires in the office. I agree that older students can probably answer the "Why law school? Why biglaw?" questions better than a K-JD. If you work hard, go to a good school, and get good enough grades, firms will consider you. Whether they offer will probably be based mostly on fit, just like any other prospect.

[Anonymous User]

Anon because of potential out-

I went to school part time, and will be mid 30s when I graduate this year. I have an offer at a V10 major market. There are other nontraditional hires in the office. I agree that older students can probably answer the "Why law school? Why biglaw?" questions better than a K-JD. If you work hard, go to a good school, and get good enough grades, firms will consider you. Whether they offer will probably be based mostly on fit, just like any other prospect.

[Indecision16]

A friend of mine went to a respected pre-select school that places pretty well in biglaw (40-50%). She was 37 at the time of OCI. She was in the top 20%.

She only got one screener (a similar ranked/aged classmate got 2 screeners). I think where you go to school matters. I think that if you’re at a lottery system school, you’ll be better off. I think firms will gravitate away from someone in their late 30s until they meet them because of some of the concerns listed above.

I work with a few older associates, and they are great. The partners seem to like them and their work ethic. I believe most are on reduced schedules now, but that’s understandable with covid.

What concerns listed above?

I doubt I could get into a top 20. My gpa is a 3.24, and I have had several entry level jobs since school ending. I don’t see it being realistic.


I’m single with no kids so don’t have other obligations like family.

[nixy]

Your work history doesn't matter and your GPA can be overcome with a high enough LSAT. I mean, not probably "get into Harvard" overcome, but T20-overcome.

[Indecision16]

My gpa should be higher. My major gpa is a 3.8 (history). I did poorly on a bunch of fluff courses at the beginning of my college career. During that time I also had cancer and depression issues, so shit was rough.

[2013]

Nixy is right. If you had a sub-3.00, I’d be concerned. But a 3.24 with a 170 can get you into a top-20 school (most T14 too). Or a Fordham/BU type of school with a full ride.

The concerns I talked about were the family commitments that people mentioned above. I think there’s the belief that attorneys with children and a family can’t devote as much time to work. I don’t think that’s true (most of the attorneys with families I know seem to be handling covid better).

Obviously don’t bring up being single with no kids out of the blue, but find a way to drop a hint somewhere. Like if you want to go to CA from the east coast, you can say something that indicates you can move fairly easily.

[Anonymous User]

I saw a number of articles and I wanted to see if anyone has any personal experience with this.


I have been considering lawschool for quite some time now. Since my senior year of college and I will likely not admit until I’m 35. So I will bring 38 when I’m done.


I’ve read that large law firms like younger new hires so they can be more mailable...etc

Is this just a myth? Does it depend on the employer?

Anon so I can be candid and avoid being outed....

I started law school in my early 40s and have secured a big law job in a major market. Doing OCI at one of HYS, I can say that all that really mattered was the fact that I was doing OCI at HYS. I cannot imagine that age ever matters more than the name of your school, GPA/class rank, and the other things firms care about. My situation is somewhat unique in that I do not think my resume gave away how much older I am than the typical law student but, based on the results of somewhat younger students (30s), I think it's basically a non-issue. This past summer I got to know a partner who started at the firm in her late 30s/early 40s as a second career attorney. So, while its unusual, its hardly unheard of. I think it helps a lot in terms of being compelling and memorable in interviews. People who finish law school in their 30s and 40s really want it. I also think its helps when interacting with clients. I got positive feedback about client interactions during my 1L summer at a firm. Dealing with clients might be less stressful when you are closer in age to them and have prior work experience.