You may be a high achiever, but that doesn't mean your career is the most important thing to you Forum

[Anonymous User]

Sharing a breakthrough I had with my therapist because it has really lowered my stress level and some people on this site might benefit from considering it (lol).

I've always been a high achiever in school and at work. I want to be competent at everything I do and not let people down, and that has driven me to succeed. Consequently, I felt pressure to pursue a "big" career that would carry a lot of money, power, and prestige and take up an inordinate amount of my time (like BigLaw or Fed Gov). But I've struggled to decide what my "dream job" is and had anxiety about being overworked and not having time to do things I enjoy.

I realized that, even though I'm good at academic and professional tasks, I've actually never wanted a "big" career. I do want a job that will be stimulating, contribute to society, and allow me to support myself. But I don't want it to be the biggest thing in my life, like the "big" jobs become for most people. My relationships, hobbies, and sense of personal freedom are more important to me. Those are the things that most affect my life satisfaction, not my career.

I'm seriously close to turning down my BigLaw offer and pursuing legal aid or local government instead, which have always interested me but which I never pursued because I thought it would be "selling myself short." I might even leave the law and go into teaching. (Obviously these decisions would reflect the privilege of not having debts, and not everyone could do that.) It's never "selling yourself short" if the decision would allow you to have a lifestyle you'll actually enjoy instead of one that will sap your energy and make you unhappy.

This is not a mainstream view in the US, and especially not in the legal profession. We've all internalized the emphasis on money and prestige, and for some people those are their true values (which is fine for them--they're the ones who should take the big jobs). But a lot of us don't actually feel that way, and it can be hard to even realize that. Just wanted to share this because I suspect some people feel the way I do but haven't allowed themselves to accept it. If you feel like you'd rather "work to live" than "live to work," take time to explore those feelings and don't get sucked into a high-pressure career just because you're qualified for it and it feels like you have to.

[LawrenceGazebo]

Sharing a breakthrough I had with my therapist because it has really lowered my stress level and some people on this site might benefit from considering it (lol).

I've always been a high achiever in school and at work. I want to be competent at everything I do and not let people down, and that has driven me to succeed. Consequently, I felt pressure to pursue a "big" career that would carry a lot of money, power, and prestige and take up an inordinate amount of my time (like BigLaw or Fed Gov). But I've struggled to decide what my "dream job" is and had anxiety about being overworked and not having time to do things I enjoy.

I realized that, even though I'm good at academic and professional tasks, I've actually never wanted a "big" career. I do want a job that will be stimulating, contribute to society, and allow me to support myself. But I don't want it to be the biggest thing in my life, like the "big" jobs become for most people. My relationships, hobbies, and sense of personal freedom are more important to me. Those are the things that most affect my life satisfaction, not my career.

I'm seriously close to turning down my BigLaw offer and pursuing legal aid or local government instead, which have always interested me but which I never pursued because I thought it would be "selling myself short." I might even leave the law and go into teaching. (Obviously these decisions would reflect the privilege of not having debts, and not everyone could do that.) It's never "selling yourself short" if the decision would allow you to have a lifestyle you'll actually enjoy instead of one that will sap your energy and make you unhappy.

This is not a mainstream view in the US, and especially not in the legal profession. We've all internalized the emphasis on money and prestige, and for some people those are their true values (which is fine for them--they're the ones who should take the big jobs). But a lot of us don't actually feel that way, and it can be hard to even realize that. Just wanted to share this because I suspect some people feel the way I do but haven't allowed themselves to accept it. If you feel like you'd rather "work to live" than "live to work," take time to explore those feelings and don't get sucked into a high-pressure career just because you're qualified for it and it feels like you have to.

This is all excellent. My advice would be to consider still starting your biglaw career.

1. I don't find it to be as shitty as many people make it sound.
2. It is fun at times and I think generally enjoyable, and I have a fulfilling life outside of work.
3. I would think even a short stint in biglaw would open up doors to do many different things, things that might not be available otherwise (including public interest type stuff).

[Anonymous User]

Sharing a breakthrough I had with my therapist because it has really lowered my stress level and some people on this site might benefit from considering it (lol).

I've always been a high achiever in school and at work. I want to be competent at everything I do and not let people down, and that has driven me to succeed. Consequently, I felt pressure to pursue a "big" career that would carry a lot of money, power, and prestige and take up an inordinate amount of my time (like BigLaw or Fed Gov). But I've struggled to decide what my "dream job" is and had anxiety about being overworked and not having time to do things I enjoy.

I realized that, even though I'm good at academic and professional tasks, I've actually never wanted a "big" career. I do want a job that will be stimulating, contribute to society, and allow me to support myself. But I don't want it to be the biggest thing in my life, like the "big" jobs become for most people. My relationships, hobbies, and sense of personal freedom are more important to me. Those are the things that most affect my life satisfaction, not my career.

I'm seriously close to turning down my BigLaw offer and pursuing legal aid or local government instead, which have always interested me but which I never pursued because I thought it would be "selling myself short." I might even leave the law and go into teaching. (Obviously these decisions would reflect the privilege of not having debts, and not everyone could do that.) It's never "selling yourself short" if the decision would allow you to have a lifestyle you'll actually enjoy instead of one that will sap your energy and make you unhappy.

This is not a mainstream view in the US, and especially not in the legal profession. We've all internalized the emphasis on money and prestige, and for some people those are their true values (which is fine for them--they're the ones who should take the big jobs). But a lot of us don't actually feel that way, and it can be hard to even realize that. Just wanted to share this because I suspect some people feel the way I do but haven't allowed themselves to accept it. If you feel like you'd rather "work to live" than "live to work," take time to explore those feelings and don't get sucked into a high-pressure career just because you're qualified for it and it feels like you have to.

This is all excellent. My advice would be to consider still starting your biglaw career.

1. I don't find it to be as shitty as many people make it sound.
2. It is fun at times and I think generally enjoyable, and I have a fulfilling life outside of work.
3. I would think even a short stint in biglaw would open up doors to do many different things, things that might not be available otherwise (including public interest type stuff).

I wouldn't underestimate #3. A year or two in biglaw can be very helpful, and its much less stressful if you go into it knowing its not forever.

Also:
4. Pay off any debt relatively quickly

[Anonymous User]

I find the debt accumulated during law school to be the biggest burden in my life. I think very few people would be in biglaw if not for the money and related security.

[two post]

I think this is excellent advice.

Also:
4. Pay off any debt relatively quickly

I find the debt accumulated during law school to be the biggest burden in my life. I think very few people would be in biglaw if not for the money and related security.

This is why most people should consider this advice prior to law school.

[Anonymous User]

I think this is excellent advice.

Also:
4. Pay off any debt relatively quickly

I find the debt accumulated during law school to be the biggest burden in my life. I think very few people would be in biglaw if not for the money and related security.

This is why most people should consider this advice prior to law school.

Are you still super stressed about the debt if it's govt loan debt? I have just over 200k in student loan debt, all fed govt, and while I'm a bit stressed to owe anything, I'm not really that worried about it (and would feel ok leaving biglaw before too long) bc of the income based repayment options. Is that naive?

[Elston Gunn]

I think this is excellent advice.

Also:
4. Pay off any debt relatively quickly

I find the debt accumulated during law school to be the biggest burden in my life. I think very few people would be in biglaw if not for the money and related security.

This is why most people should consider this advice prior to law school.

Are you still super stressed about the debt if it's govt loan debt? I have just over 200k in student loan debt, all fed govt, and while I'm a bit stressed to owe anything, I'm not really that worried about it (and would feel ok leaving biglaw before too long) bc of the income based repayment options. Is that naive?

That’s how I’ve always felt too. More than 5 years out, still tons of debt (but solidly positive net worth), left big law for a relatively chill but still well paying in house job. I don’t really stress about the debt, and it’s certainly not stopping me from having the standard of living I want know or saving for the future. This is something where YMMV, as the psychological effect of debt is different for different people.

[Anonymous User]

I think this is excellent advice.

Also:
4. Pay off any debt relatively quickly

I find the debt accumulated during law school to be the biggest burden in my life. I think very few people would be in biglaw if not for the money and related security.

This is why most people should consider this advice prior to law school.

Are you still super stressed about the debt if it's govt loan debt? I have just over 200k in student loan debt, all fed govt, and while I'm a bit stressed to owe anything, I'm not really that worried about it (and would feel ok leaving biglaw before too long) bc of the income based repayment options. Is that naive?

20 years is a long time both personally and politically. Not to mention the tax bomb currently in effect for IBR forgiveness. Also the interest rate on government loans unchecked for 20 years is borderline life-ruining if it isn't forgiven.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for posting this, and congrats on your epiphany. Focus on what makes you happy. Life is too short to spend it chasing prestige and money. If you do decide to give big law a try, never sacrifice your health. A young partner at my firm passed away from stage 4 cancer a few months ago. I'm not saying that his lifestyle contributed to his death, but I watched his health gradually deteriorate for four years before he was diagnosed.

[LawrenceGazebo]

Thanks for posting this, and congrats on your epiphany. Focus on what makes you happy. Life is too short to spend it chasing prestige and money. If you do decide to give big law a try, never sacrifice your health. A young partner at my firm passed away from stage 4 cancer a few months ago. I'm not saying that his lifestyle contributed to his death, but I watched his health gradually deteriorate for four years before he was diagnosed.

Perhaps had he been a surf instructor he wouldn't have gotten cancer.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for posting this, and congrats on your epiphany. Focus on what makes you happy. Life is too short to spend it chasing prestige and money. If you do decide to give big law a try, never sacrifice your health. A young partner at my firm passed away from stage 4 cancer a few months ago. I'm not saying that his lifestyle contributed to his death, but I watched his health gradually deteriorate for four years before he was diagnosed.

Perhaps had he been a surf instructor he wouldn't have gotten cancer.

My point is that if you don't take care of yourself, you're increasing the likelihood that something bad happens to you. Yes, he could've had shitty luck, but something like 90 percent of all cancers are caused by lifestyle/environmental factors.

[notinbiglaw]

People keep citing tax bomb but it’s frankly a dumb thing to worry about. It can be planned for and taking even 100 steps back, paying 40% of principal is better than paying 100% principal.

[Anonymous User]

People keep citing tax bomb but it’s frankly a dumb thing to worry about. It can be planned for and taking even 100 steps back, paying 40% of principal is better than paying 100% principal.

$150k @ 6.5% interest after 25 years is $724k due. If your IBR payments are low enough to barely touch accrued interest, you are looking at 40% (if negative political changes to limit benefits do not occur) of $700k due. Or $520k principal after 20 years.

If by plan, you mean file bankruptcy, well, I suppose so.

Mod note- this did not need to be anon.

[nixy]

I’ve seen other people argue that you can either 1) you’re high income, and you make more money by investing income rather than paying the debts now, so you can save up to cover the tax bomb as well as have more money invested/available to you along the way, or 2) you’re low (or lower) income so the IRS will just work out a payment plan with you. Obviously if you don’t have the means to pay off the debt and need to do IBR for economic reasons, then obviously you do what you need to do. But I have seen the argument for high earners that having access to the money is better than avoiding the tax bomb later. (I’m not high enough income to comment on whether that’s right, just that it’s the argument that gets made.)

[daedalus2309]

it depends how much are you are ok with govt assistance (EBT, etc) I know lots of people who have masters degrees or above who are on such due to their fully licensed jobs not paying enough to reasonably care for a family. The secret if so if to not be lower middle class. That with a dependent and student loans.......you will die...........but be below poverty level(x2) and you can get IBR plus free rent and food and medical.

If you go low income, go low enough is all.

[nixy]

it depends how much are you are ok with govt assistance (EBT, etc) I know lots of people who have masters degrees or above who are on such due to their fully licensed jobs not paying enough to reasonably care for a family. The secret if so if to not be lower middle class. That with a dependent and student loans.......you will die...........but be below poverty level(x2) and you can get IBR plus free rent and food and medical.

If you go low income, go low enough is all.

Dude, for a minute I thought you were serious/that other guy who got banned.

[EminentDumain]

it depends how much are you are ok with govt assistance (EBT, etc) I know lots of people who have masters degrees or above who are on such due to their fully licensed jobs not paying enough to reasonably care for a family. The secret if so if to not be lower middle class. That with a dependent and student loans.......you will die...........but be below poverty level(x2) and you can get IBR plus free rent and food and medical.

If you go low income, go low enough is all.

Bravo.