K&E Bonus Multiplier Data Points Forum
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K&E Bonus Multiplier Data Points
I'm a new K&E associate about to get my first year-end bonus from the firm (thus anon to preserve identity). Given the pandemic, the firm's communications about bonuses, etc., I've seen a lot of sporadic chatter here about the firm potentially squeezing us on bonuses: giving us at least the market rate (including the special bonus) but reducing multipliers so that they can say "market shattering bonuses" while being just above the market but below where they've traditionally been. Given the remote environment now, we may not get the presentation showing the range of multipliers, which I've heard they've shown in past meetings. So it seems the only way to figure this out (to any extent) is to collect data points on what multipliers folks have gotten in previous years and then compare them to the multipliers this year. Does anyone have this data anywhere? Or are folks willing to share their own data points so we can assess?
Something like this would be helpful:
[Calendar Year] - [Associate Year] - [Hours] - [Rating] - [Multiplier]
I unfortunately don't have any data points to share but am curious what others may have. This seems like the only way to figure out how much the firm is actually paying us above market this year as compared to other years. But curious to hear if others have different approaches to figuring this out too.
Something like this would be helpful:
[Calendar Year] - [Associate Year] - [Hours] - [Rating] - [Multiplier]
I unfortunately don't have any data points to share but am curious what others may have. This seems like the only way to figure out how much the firm is actually paying us above market this year as compared to other years. But curious to hear if others have different approaches to figuring this out too.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Wed Dec 09, 2020 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: K&E Bonus Multiplier Data Points
There are some related threads out there for previous years, but they're hard to find. Above the Law articles have some datapoints.
But those are for past years, and not really indicative of what K&E will pay this year. If you keep this thread alive, I'm happy to put my anonymized data point up in 10 days or so.
But those are for past years, and not really indicative of what K&E will pay this year. If you keep this thread alive, I'm happy to put my anonymized data point up in 10 days or so.
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Re: K&E Bonus Multiplier Data Points
In 2018, received roughly 1.25x for 2nd year bonus with 2,100 hours, solid reviews and a 3 rating.
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Re: K&E Bonus Multiplier Data Points
Being squeezed on the multiplier only really matters in much later years. Even through the 3/4th year, the difference between 1.25 on 70K and 1.25 on 50K is like 5K (so not life altering figures). Billing under 2600-2800 hours per year is. When you're north of 2200-2400, life can get very rough.
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Re: K&E Bonus Multiplier Data Points
OP. Thanks for the data point. And thanks for adding your hours, which I forgot to mention (and is important to assessing multipliers). Anyone else who adds their information: please also include your hours (the ones that count for bonus purposes)!Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:01 amIn 2018, received roughly 1.25x for 2nd year bonus with 2,100 hours, solid reviews and a 3 rating.
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Re: K&E Bonus Multiplier Data Points
OP. Understood. But my objective here is to discern any squeezing on multipliers across all class years this year as compared to multipliers of past. I take your point that squeezing the multiplier in later years has more of an impact. But I don't care so much about that. I more so care about whether the firm is going to reduce multipliers across the board this year (compared to historical multipliers), so they can still say they pay us above market but they give us less above the market than they usually do.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:38 amBeing squeezed on the multiplier only really matters in much later years. Even through the 3/4th year, the difference between 1.25 on 70K and 1.25 on 50K is like 5K (so not life altering figures). Billing under 2600-2800 hours per year is. When you're north of 2200-2400, life can get very rough.
So any and all data points from the past (and the future, when they give us our bonus memos) would be very helpful. Thanks!
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Re: K&E Bonus Multiplier Data Points
Two rules of thumb:
1) Over the last ten years, all else being equal, the multiplier has decreased. It was fairly common to see 2.x, even 3.x back in the early 2000s. Squeezing started around 2010 consistent with KE's PPP rise.
2) The firm plays games with the multiplier stat in that it tends to be higher for more junior associates and then decreases as people move up in seniority. There's a big money implication to that because obviously bonuses get higher as seniority rises, so it saves them money but also allows them to report a somewhat misrepresentative multiplier when they do the presentation each year--it's not a weighted average.
KE does still beat the Cravath scale consistently and it should get credit for doing it but for more senior associates who aren't some rainmaker's pet and haven't billed 2,700 hours the "beat" might be like a 1.2x, 1.1x these days.
1) Over the last ten years, all else being equal, the multiplier has decreased. It was fairly common to see 2.x, even 3.x back in the early 2000s. Squeezing started around 2010 consistent with KE's PPP rise.
2) The firm plays games with the multiplier stat in that it tends to be higher for more junior associates and then decreases as people move up in seniority. There's a big money implication to that because obviously bonuses get higher as seniority rises, so it saves them money but also allows them to report a somewhat misrepresentative multiplier when they do the presentation each year--it's not a weighted average.
KE does still beat the Cravath scale consistently and it should get credit for doing it but for more senior associates who aren't some rainmaker's pet and haven't billed 2,700 hours the "beat" might be like a 1.2x, 1.1x these days.
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Re: K&E Bonus Multiplier Data Points
OP to specifically answer your question there's almost zero chance that KE doesn't match and then at least slightly exceed the Cravath bonus scale for its associates (inclusive of the fall special bonus); the firm has made a ton of money this year & they're a V10 with a reputation for (somewhat) beating the market. Predictions to the contrary are just bored / paranoid KE associates having to ride out the next ten days until bonuses are announced.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:30 pmI'm a new K&E associate about to get my first year-end bonus from the firm (thus anon to preserve identity). Given the pandemic, the firm's communications about bonuses, etc., I've seen a lot of sporadic chatter here about the firm potentially squeezing us on bonuses: giving us at least the market rate (including the special bonus) but reducing multipliers so that they can say "market shattering bonuses" while being just above the market but below where they've traditionally been. Given the remote environment now, we may not get the presentation showing the range of multipliers, which I've heard they've shown in past meetings. So it seems the only way to figure this out (to any extent) is to collect data points on what multipliers folks have gotten in previous years and then compare them to the multipliers this year. Does anyone have this data anywhere? Or are folks willing to share their own data points so we can assess?
Something like this would be helpful:
[Calendar Year] - [Associate Year] - [Hours] - [Rating] - [Multiplier]
I unfortunately don't have any data points to share but am curious what others may have. This seems like the only way to figure out how much the firm is actually paying us above market this year as compared to other years. But curious to hear if others have different approaches to figuring this out too.
You haven't specified your hours so it's hard to give a specific prediction but especially for a young attorney like you it wouldn't be out of the question to see something like a 1.5x multiplier because in the scheme of things that's a tiny amount of money for the firm. As stated above, the multiplier tends to compress the farther you move up the seniority chain.
If you're asking me what I think the firm *should* do, that's a different question, and my answer would be: I think they should fucking knock it out of the park with bonuses and give people more money than they've ever given before, because this year has been a true shitshow but attorneys at the firm have continued to work their assess off and bill even in the midst of a pandemic and everyone could use a morale boost right now to get us through to the other side of COVID. But that's not a prediction on my part, more an "if I ruled the world" statement.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: K&E Bonus Multiplier Data Points
As someone who had 2s 4th through 6th year the notion that my beat wasn't some crazy high number was genuinely a source of anxiety that I was doing something wrong.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:00 pmTwo rules of thumb:
1) Over the last ten years, all else being equal, the multiplier has decreased. It was fairly common to see 2.x, even 3.x back in the early 2000s. Squeezing started around 2010 consistent with KE's PPP rise.
2) The firm plays games with the multiplier stat in that it tends to be higher for more junior associates and then decreases as people move up in seniority. There's a big money implication to that because obviously bonuses get higher as seniority rises, so it saves them money but also allows them to report a somewhat misrepresentative multiplier when they do the presentation each year--it's not a weighted average.
KE does still beat the Cravath scale consistently and it should get credit for doing it but for more senior associates who aren't some rainmaker's pet and haven't billed 2,700 hours the "beat" might be like a 1.2x, 1.1x these days.
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Re: K&E Bonus Multiplier Data Points
Right. And they like it that way--the system is designed to have a tinge of uncertainty and anxiety in it to keep people guessing and working; this was covered in the Bloomberg law piece about the firm at the beginning of the year. The reality is that, especially as you get more senior, the "beat" multiplier tends to be pretty conservative for most people (there are exceptions; the guy in cap markets who works with the rainmaker and billed 2700 may get 2x); I don't know how much class rating really even plays into it there's a lip service factor to compensating above class more but it doesn't move the needle as much as they pretend it does.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:57 pmAs someone who had 2s 4th through 6th year the notion that my beat wasn't some crazy high number was genuinely a source of anxiety that I was doing something wrong.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:00 pmTwo rules of thumb:
1) Over the last ten years, all else being equal, the multiplier has decreased. It was fairly common to see 2.x, even 3.x back in the early 2000s. Squeezing started around 2010 consistent with KE's PPP rise.
2) The firm plays games with the multiplier stat in that it tends to be higher for more junior associates and then decreases as people move up in seniority. There's a big money implication to that because obviously bonuses get higher as seniority rises, so it saves them money but also allows them to report a somewhat misrepresentative multiplier when they do the presentation each year--it's not a weighted average.
KE does still beat the Cravath scale consistently and it should get credit for doing it but for more senior associates who aren't some rainmaker's pet and haven't billed 2,700 hours the "beat" might be like a 1.2x, 1.1x these days.
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Re: K&E Bonus Multiplier Data Points
I’ll share my bonus numbers in this thread when it’s out. Hope others do as well do we can get a bit of transparency.
Also, what the hell is up with the virtual holiday party they’re doing? Seems like an enormous waste of money that could go to staff as a bonus...
Also, what the hell is up with the virtual holiday party they’re doing? Seems like an enormous waste of money that could go to staff as a bonus...
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Re: K&E Bonus Multiplier Data Points
I’ll share as well but is anyone else concerned that setting up the meeting is taking a little long? After the COVID bonuses I am prone to thinking they’re always trying to find ways to not pay us properly (or on time). Any chance they delay bonuses into next year?
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Re: K&E Bonus Multiplier Data Points
People would riot. Similar story to above anon re partners mentioning offhand bonus #s would be high.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 8:02 pmI’ll share as well but is anyone else concerned that setting up the meeting is taking a little long? After the COVID bonuses I am prone to thinking they’re always trying to find ways to not pay us properly (or on time). Any chance they delay bonuses into next year?
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Re: K&E Bonus Multiplier Data Points
Anon for obvious reasons. I had a 1.4x multiplier last year with 2300 hours and a 3. I was within the first three years when everyone gets 3s.
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Re: K&E Bonus Multiplier Data Points
Junior associate, 1800 hours last year (give or take 50 hours), 3 rating, about 2-5% above market.
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Re: K&E Bonus Multiplier Data Points
OP. Thanks for the discussion, all. Are any other people willing to share data points re: past bonus multipliers? That seems like the only way to discern (after this year's bonuses come out) whether this year's multipliers are below what they usually are (and, if so, by how much).
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Re: K&E Bonus Multiplier Data Points
3rd year, just under 2500 hours last year, 3 rating, 1.3x
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Re: K&E Bonus Multiplier Data Points
Okay now I'm starting to get paranoid lol. It's December 12. There's been no meeting scheduled. We haven't heard anything about bonuses. And from what I've heard from the NSPs, they haven't gotten their ratings or reviews yet which typically come out first half of the month. I don't think anything terrible is going to happen but it's a little weird.
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Re: K&E Bonus Multiplier Data Points
Literally stop.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Dec 12, 2020 4:12 pmOkay now I'm starting to get paranoid lol. It's December 12. There's been no meeting scheduled. We haven't heard anything about bonuses. And from what I've heard from the NSPs, they haven't gotten their ratings or reviews yet which typically come out first half of the month. I don't think anything terrible is going to happen but it's a little weird.
You will get your bonus on schedule, and it will be exceptionally good this year. Just trust me on this.
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Re: K&E Bonus Multiplier Data Points
How are you so sure? Even if this ends up being true, I don’t recall the announcement or bonus meeting ever being so delayed. But I suppose that this is an exceptional year. A lot of folks in restricting have had to do like 2700+ hours, would be nice to see 2x for those folks.Ultramar vistas wrote: ↑Sat Dec 12, 2020 6:54 pmLiterally stop.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Dec 12, 2020 4:12 pmOkay now I'm starting to get paranoid lol. It's December 12. There's been no meeting scheduled. We haven't heard anything about bonuses. And from what I've heard from the NSPs, they haven't gotten their ratings or reviews yet which typically come out first half of the month. I don't think anything terrible is going to happen but it's a little weird.
You will get your bonus on schedule, and it will be exceptionally good this year. Just trust me on this.
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Re: K&E Bonus Multiplier Data Points
That seems incredibly cheap of K&E for almost 2500 billed.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:37 pm3rd year, just under 2500 hours last year, 3 rating, 1.3x
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Re: K&E Bonus Multiplier Data Points
Last three years the bonus multiple has not been good for high billers.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Dec 12, 2020 10:11 pmThat seems incredibly cheap of K&E for almost 2500 billed.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:37 pm3rd year, just under 2500 hours last year, 3 rating, 1.3x
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Re: K&E Bonus Multiplier Data Points
My guess is that Kirkland is waiting as long as possible to see what they can get away with re the special bonuses (like if they have enough cover to set a big hours minimum or something). Partners at Kirkland, like I assume partners everywhere, are ungodly greedy and won’t pay associates a dime more than they think they absolutely have to.
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Re: K&E Bonus Multiplier Data Points
If they do this there will be open rioting; what a fuck you that would be from the richest partnership in the world. I'm in Chicago and all the competing biglaw firms here (and the prestigious boutiques) try to poach KE associates / partners, including a couple in particular I'm thinking about that were very active in 2019; this would be an easy push for plenty of us to start listening to their offers.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 4:07 pmMy guess is that Kirkland is waiting as long as possible to see what they can get away with re the special bonuses (like if they have enough cover to set a big hours minimum or something). Partners at Kirkland, like I assume partners everywhere, are ungodly greedy and won’t pay associates a dime more than they think they absolutely have to.
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Re: K&E Bonus Multiplier Data Points
I'm a senior assoc in Chicago, and while I generally agree with this, I think a very likely scenario is that they squeeze low performers and "take care" of the top performers (meaning typical multiple plus Cravath special bonus scale). I don't think there's a world where we don't get the special bonus--partners might be greedy, but they're not stupid, and they care about being seen as peers with the top NY firms.
On timing, I got my bonus memo on Dec 18, so I presume we'll start seeing them mid-late this week or early next. I'm not concerned.
On timing, I got my bonus memo on Dec 18, so I presume we'll start seeing them mid-late this week or early next. I'm not concerned.
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