Exit Opportunities for Tax Attorneys Forum

[viperking]

Hi all. I am considering trying out some tax work as a summer in New York, at a V20 firm. I'll be able to do work across several practice areas within the corporate department, and tax is just one of them. So, now I'm just trying to learn a bit more about what tax attorneys at top firms do. My research has left me with one question in particular:

what do exit opportunities look like for tax attorneys at V10 or V20 firms? Are they similar to other corporate lawyers? Would love any info on this! Thank you.

edit to add: particularly interested in hearing whether exit opportunities tend to be tax-specific or tax-narrow.

[Chouchou]

Very telling... 200 views and 0 reply.

[Anonymous User]

Maybe VP of Tax at a company? Companies may prefer CPAs though...

[viperking]

Very telling... 200 views and 0 reply.

LOL I know they've got me worried.

Either nobody is/wants to be a tax attorney or there are bad exit opportunities. 'Fess up, attorneys!

[viperking]

Very telling... 200 views and 0 reply.

Maybe VP of Tax at a company? Companies may prefer CPAs though...

You've nailed two of my concerns with this response:

1) are there non-tax-specific (tax can be part of the job, but hoping not all of it) legal opportunities exist for tax attorneys?
2) will I be at a disadvantage without an LLM or CPA status, even if I go to a V10 or V5 firm?

[Sackboy]

I don't know why anyone else hasn't posted. Tax has great exit options in-house and gov't.

You won't be at a disadvantage at your firm without an LLM. First-year tax associates generally do not have an LLM, and firms pay for you to get an LLM while you work there.

As for Tax VP positions, you'll find tax accountants and tax lawyers in them. You can either try to go that path, or you can try to climb up to GC, which will force you to get more generalized with your skills (usually).

EDIT: If you want tax to be part of the job (but not all of it), please don't go into tax. You will not be happy.

[hangtime813]

Large companies tend to have positions for tax counsel or director/vp of tax that are pretty good exit options. Even going in house as a "tax manager" where you handle controversy/planning matters doesn't seem too bad, and the comp can be very competitive at a FAANG company.

Of course there are big4/other accounting firms to exit into.

[Anonymous User]

I don't know why anyone else hasn't posted. Tax has great exit options in-house and gov't.

You won't be at a disadvantage at your firm without an LLM. First-year tax associates generally do not have an LLM, and firms pay for you to get an LLM while you work there.

As for Tax VP positions, you'll find tax accountants and tax lawyers in them. You can either try to go that path, or you can try to climb up to GC, which will force you to get more generalized with your skills (usually).

EDIT: If you want tax to be part of the job (but not all of it), please don't go into tax. You will not be happy.

Are these Tax VP positions common? I would assume that since only very large companies have these positions, they would be hard to get/scarce? Also, how is the pay compared to the exit options for general corporate exit options?

[viperking]

Large companies tend to have positions for tax counsel or director/vp of tax that are pretty good exit options. Even going in house as a "tax manager" where you handle controversy/planning matters doesn't seem too bad, and the comp can be very competitive at a FAANG company.

Of course there are big4/other accounting firms to exit into.

Would tax attorneys have general counsel office exit opportunities too? Like, more general corporate work as opposed to tax?

I don't know how to quote more than one person, but to respond to Sackboy as well ––I am very interested in practicing "only tax" for a time, I just have fairly specific in-house goals for a few years down the road (if I don't stay at a firm), so I am trying to weigh my options.

Thanks all!

[Sackboy]

Would tax attorneys have general counsel office exit opportunities too? Like, more general corporate work as opposed to tax?

I don't know how to quote more than one person, but to respond to Sackboy as well ––I am very interested in practicing "only tax" for a time, I just have fairly specific in-house goals for a few years down the road (if I don't stay at a firm), so I am trying to weigh my options.

Thanks all!

Tax attorneys can certainly land general corporate counsel roles. I see it happen enough that it's not unusual. That being said, you're competing for those roles against people who worked as corporate M&A lawyers for 3yrs+. That puts you at, generally, a considerable disadvantage. If you want a general corporate role, you'd be much better off starting as an M&A attorney. The way the practice of law operates currently does not lend itself well to starting as a specialist and then becoming a broader practitioner. Starting your career with the intent to spend a few years in a specialty and then becoming a generalist just seems unnecessarily complicated and burdensome.

[hangtime813]

Would tax attorneys have general counsel office exit opportunities too? Like, more general corporate work as opposed to tax?

I don't know how to quote more than one person, but to respond to Sackboy as well ––I am very interested in practicing "only tax" for a time, I just have fairly specific in-house goals for a few years down the road (if I don't stay at a firm), so I am trying to weigh my options.

Thanks all!

Tax attorneys can certainly land general corporate counsel roles. I see it happen enough that it's not unusual. That being said, you're competing for those roles against people who worked as corporate M&A lawyers for 3yrs+. That puts you at, generally, a considerable disadvantage. If you want a general corporate role, you'd be much better off starting as an M&A attorney. The way the practice of law operates currently does not lend itself well to starting as a specialist and then becoming a broader practitioner. Starting your career with the intent to spend a few years in a specialty and then becoming a generalist just seems unnecessarily complicated and burdensome.

+1 to Sackboy's comment, although I have only seen it done a few times and it took a few jumps to get there. As Sackboy said, its way easier to go from being a generalist to a specialist than the other way around.

[Anonymous User]

When I was in-house at an investment bank, there was a tax group within the legal department. Not sure how large it was or how much they hired, but seemed like a decent gig for an exit opportunity in tax.

[Anonymous User]

Anon to keep school private
At least at my law school, tax professors are in high demand and short supply; not sure if its because they don't want to come here (which I don't think is the case) or have other options. Tax is one of those code-heavy practices where real-life experience is probably more helpful than being a theory bookworm. Just some food for thought, but academia may actually be a realistic exit option if you're open to it after some time.

[viperking]

Anon to keep school private
At least at my law school, tax professors are in high demand and short supply; not sure if its because they don't want to come here (which I don't think is the case) or have other options. Tax is one of those code-heavy practices where real-life experience is probably more helpful than being a theory bookworm. Just some food for thought, but academia may actually be a realistic exit option if you're open to it after some time.

This is awesome to hear. I'd definitely be interested in academia. Thanks!

[purplegoldtornado]

Anon to keep school private
At least at my law school, tax professors are in high demand and short supply; not sure if its because they don't want to come here (which I don't think is the case) or have other options. Tax is one of those code-heavy practices where real-life experience is probably more helpful than being a theory bookworm. Just some food for thought, but academia may actually be a realistic exit option if you're open to it after some time.

How less competitive is it though? Would a TT with a prestigious tax LLM have a chance?

[Anonymous User]

Anon to keep school private
At least at my law school, tax professors are in high demand and short supply; not sure if its because they don't want to come here (which I don't think is the case) or have other options. Tax is one of those code-heavy practices where real-life experience is probably more helpful than being a theory bookworm. Just some food for thought, but academia may actually be a realistic exit option if you're open to it after some time.

How less competitive is it though? Would a TT with a prestigious tax LLM have a chance?

Can't really comment on the competitiveness, though I wouldn't say it's "less" competitive. The considerations are just different. It may depend on your specific work experience/publications as well. Academia will always be snobby about pedigree, but being established in the field at a prominent firm known for their tax practice definitely helps. I wouldn't say academia is likely for someone that hasn't been practicing for a prolonged period of time.

[Anonymous User]

Anon to keep school private
At least at my law school, tax professors are in high demand and short supply; not sure if its because they don't want to come here (which I don't think is the case) or have other options. Tax is one of those code-heavy practices where real-life experience is probably more helpful than being a theory bookworm. Just some food for thought, but academia may actually be a realistic exit option if you're open to it after some time.

How less competitive is it though? Would a TT with a prestigious tax LLM have a chance?

Can't really comment on the competitiveness, though I wouldn't say it's "less" competitive. The considerations are just different. It may depend on your specific work experience/publications as well. Academia will always be snobby about pedigree, but being established in the field at a prominent firm known for their tax practice definitely helps. I wouldn't say academia is likely for someone that hasn't been practicing for a prolonged period of time.

I disagree with this. Tax is the one area where classroom learning is extremely important. When I was a 3L and wanted to extent at the IRS, my tax professor advised against it because tax, unlike other areas, is extremely difficult to “learn on the job.” Having practiced in this area for some years now, I agree with that conclusion.

Also, most of my tax professors in my JD and LLM (aside from adjuncts) only had very short stints (2 years) at law firms (mostly boutique tax firms). Maybe it’s different at the anon OP’s school, but I don’t think a tax job is any less competitive to get in academia.

[Sackboy]

Anon to keep school private
At least at my law school, tax professors are in high demand and short supply; not sure if its because they don't want to come here (which I don't think is the case) or have other options. Tax is one of those code-heavy practices where real-life experience is probably more helpful than being a theory bookworm. Just some food for thought, but academia may actually be a realistic exit option if you're open to it after some time.

Tax academia is not a realistic option. Full stop. If your institution is having problems attracting tax academics, that's on it. Tax academia is just as competitive as regular legal academia and there are aspiring tax profs on the market every cycle who can't land a gig despite having impressive credentials (e.g. CCN J.D., NYU L.L.M., etc.), just like with every other specialty. The one caveat is that the hoop jumping is a bit different. You can get away with publications in more specialist outlets that would generally be frowned upon, and you can L.L.M. + VAP instead of some combination of PhD + VAP + Clerkship. If you did extremely well at a "non-prestigious" law school, did very well in the NYU Tax LLM, practiced a couple of years at a respected tax biglaw firm (e.g. Cravath, S&C, Skadden, Kirkland, Baker, etc.) or boutique (e.g. Ivins, Miller & Chevalier, etc.), landed a VAP, and pumped out 2-3 well-placed publications, then, sure, you'd be competitive...

[sms18]

Anon to keep school private
At least at my law school, tax professors are in high demand and short supply; not sure if its because they don't want to come here (which I don't think is the case) or have other options. Tax is one of those code-heavy practices where real-life experience is probably more helpful than being a theory bookworm. Just some food for thought, but academia may actually be a realistic exit option if you're open to it after some time.

How less competitive is it though? Would a TT with a prestigious tax LLM have a chance?

Can't really comment on the competitiveness, though I wouldn't say it's "less" competitive. The considerations are just different. It may depend on your specific work experience/publications as well. Academia will always be snobby about pedigree, but being established in the field at a prominent firm known for their tax practice definitely helps. I wouldn't say academia is likely for someone that hasn't been practicing for a prolonged period of time.

I disagree with this. Tax is the one area where classroom learning is extremely important. When I was a 3L and wanted to extent at the IRS, my tax professor advised against it because tax, unlike other areas, is extremely difficult to “learn on the job.” Having practiced in this area for some years now, I agree with that conclusion.

Also, most of my tax professors in my JD and LLM (aside from adjuncts) only had very short stints (2 years) at law firms (mostly boutique tax firms). Maybe it’s different at the anon OP’s school, but I don’t think a tax job is any less competitive to get in academia.

What kind of professor discourages a student from an externship opportunity?

[nealric]

Hi all. I am considering trying out some tax work as a summer in New York, at a V20 firm. I'll be able to do work across several practice areas within the corporate department, and tax is just one of them. So, now I'm just trying to learn a bit more about what tax attorneys at top firms do. My research has left me with one question in particular:

what do exit opportunities look like for tax attorneys at V10 or V20 firms? Are they similar to other corporate lawyers? Would love any info on this! Thank you.

edit to add: particularly interested in hearing whether exit opportunities tend to be tax-specific or tax-narrow.

I am a tax attorney 7 years post biglaw (went in-house after 3 years of biglaw). I'd say exit opportunities are comparable in quality to M&A/corporate. The opportunities are a bit less numerous, but you are more likely to be able to get into a given opportunity because there will be fewer qualified applicants. Feel free to PM if you'd like more details.

As far as in-house opportunities, larger public companies will have in-house tax counsel. Very large public companies will have whole tax legal departments. VPs/heads of tax will more often have CPA backgrounds because they are often called upon regarding tax accounting issues (i.e. the way that tax matters are shown on financial statements). However, there are certainly plenty of tax heads who are attorneys. Some in-hose tax attorneys move on to more generalist corporate roles in-house. I know of several former tax attorneys who are now AGCs/GCs in non-tax roles, and one of my company's former corporate officers started out as tax counsel.

Overall, I'd highly recommend tax if you have an opportunity to do it at a well-regarded firm. Your biglaw experience is likely to be less brutal than the M&A folks, but the backend will likely be just as good.

[nealric]

Very telling... 200 views and 0 reply.

Not really. It's a very niche field and there are only so many people qualified to answer. Within even many major cities, the number of biglaw tax attorneys numbers in the dozens. Even in NYC, it probably isn't much over 1,000.

[viperking]

Hi all. I am considering trying out some tax work as a summer in New York, at a V20 firm. I'll be able to do work across several practice areas within the corporate department, and tax is just one of them. So, now I'm just trying to learn a bit more about what tax attorneys at top firms do. My research has left me with one question in particular:

what do exit opportunities look like for tax attorneys at V10 or V20 firms? Are they similar to other corporate lawyers? Would love any info on this! Thank you.

edit to add: particularly interested in hearing whether exit opportunities tend to be tax-specific or tax-narrow.

I am a tax attorney 7 years post biglaw (went in-house after 3 years of biglaw). I'd say exit opportunities are comparable in quality to M&A/corporate. The opportunities are a bit less numerous, but you are more likely to be able to get into a given opportunity because there will be fewer qualified applicants. Feel free to PM if you'd like more details.

As far as in-house opportunities, larger public companies will have in-house tax counsel. Very large public companies will have whole tax legal departments. VPs/heads of tax will more often have CPA backgrounds because they are often called upon regarding tax accounting issues (i.e. the way that tax matters are shown on financial statements). However, there are certainly plenty of tax heads who are attorneys. Some in-hose tax attorneys move on to more generalist corporate roles in-house. I know of several former tax attorneys who are now AGCs/GCs in non-tax roles, and one of my company's former corporate officers started out as tax counsel.

Overall, I'd highly recommend tax if you have an opportunity to do it at a well-regarded firm. Your biglaw experience is likely to be less brutal than the M&A folks, but the backend will likely be just as good.

Thank you, this was really great. You've assuaged some of my concerns!

[papermateflair]

One thing I would add is that if you indicate you want to go in house it's very much in the firm's interest for you to go in house to a client as their tax counsel, so partners may be motivated to place you with a client. Clients who have a need may also reach out - I've seen folks at my firm go in-house and get the exact same compensation because it just made more sense for them to go work directly for the client. I assume it's the same in other specialties, but like others have said, the tax world is pretty small and so a well-placed associate who rises through the ranks can keep the client from wandering to a new firm. I haven't seen tax associates fail to land an in-house gig if that's what they wanted.

[Stevenmilbe]

Has anyone here gone from tax in biglaw to in-house at a FAANG? Is that common/realistic?

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone here gone from tax in biglaw to in-house at a FAANG? Is that common/realistic?

In-house tax counsel at a FAANG is not unrealistic.