Ways to prepare for academia as 1st year BigLaw Associate? Forum

[Anonymous User]

As the title suggests I'm currently 1st year BigLaw associate in a large market. I went to a T14 and was on two journals and published an article, but neither were law review. I externed with a federal judge in law school but didn't clerk. So I don't expect to be even looking at a tenure track position before gaining more experience. I'm hoping to apply to some clinical/adjunct/writing positions at schools in my state, and slowly start to build a career in academia. Does anyone have experience with that application process who had stats similar to mine?

Also, when's the best time to look for those positions? I don't think I want to stay in BigLaw more than a year or two.

[nealric]

As the title suggests I'm currently 1st year BigLaw associate in a large market. I went to a T14 and was on two journals and published an article, but neither were law review. I externed with a federal judge in law school but didn't clerk. So I don't expect to be even looking at a tenure track position before gaining more experience. I'm hoping to apply to some clinical/adjunct/writing positions at schools in my state, and slowly start to build a career in academia. Does anyone have experience with that application process who had stats similar to mine?

Also, when's the best time to look for those positions? I don't think I want to stay in BigLaw more than a year or two.

I think your best bet is to clerk after a stint in biglaw, ideally a circuit court eventually. Many firms will help you find a clerkship. My old firm had a judge that basically had a reserved seat for firm associates. They publicly announced that anybody interesting in clerking should talk to PartnerX about setting up an interview with JudgeY. You may have a situation like that you can exploit.

You'll also need to publish more. Find something you are interested in and write an article. It may help if you can find a partner willing to put their name on it. My sense is that being an adjunct writing prof won't help much in getting a full tenure track job.

Anyhow, I'd count on it being an uphill battle. Legal academia is a tough nut to crack even with gold plated academic credentials.

[nixy]

In addition to what nealric said, do you have connections with faculty from your school? I would reach out to them for advice (it’s often the one career field they have relevant experience in).

Look into the fellowship programs like Climenko et al - not sure if you’re competitive (don’t know your grades) but they’re a traditional stepping stone to academia - and visiting assistant professor positions.

I agree that legal writing/clinical positions aren’t going to translate to tenure-track doctrinal positions (many legal writing/clinical gigs aren’t tenure track), but they can be a good alternative academic path, especially if you want something more focused on practice/working with students rather than on producing research. For these, key is getting decent practice experience and/or clerking (for writing positions), and you may need to work in such a position part time before getting a full time gig.

[stoopkid13]

I think the general rule of thumb is that tenure track positions generally require two of the following: a PhD, an appellate clerkship, a teaching fellowship (like Climenko or Bigelow). But, by far, the most important piece is the research proposal. So I'd focus on trying to publish (maybe co-writing with a partner at your firm), and figuring out your research area.

I'd also push back on the other posters about teaching legal writing not leading to tenure track, because my understanding is that's basically what Climenko and Bigelow fellows do. That said, these positions are highly competitive, also require some type of research proposal, and many (but not all) fellows are coming from clerkships or PhD programs.

[nixy]

I was distinguishing “generic legal writing job” from Climenko/Bigelow fellowships - they’re very different prospects.

[Iowahawk]

My understanding is that you can't really move from legal writing positions or adjuncting to tenure-track academia. Yale and Chicago at least used to have helpful guides online. You might also listen to Orin Kerr's new Legal Academy podcast, which is on this sort of thing. For tenure-track, unless you do a Ph.D., you're going to need a VAP or a fellowship first. The top fellowships (Climenko and Bigelow, already mentioned) are really obscenely competitive and now generally require:
(1) a good publication or two, plus
(2) either (a) a clerkship with at least a COA judge with a national reputation, ideally SCOTUS, or (b) a top Ph.D.
Not all fellowships are Bigelow/Climenko competitive, but the others require the same sorts of things just in lesser degrees. That means you need to clerk to get a fellowship, which you need to get a tenure-track job. Aside from the credential competition you also need a clerkship just to have time to write to prepare to apply for fellowships. Talk to profs at your law school about your interest in academia. It's a very, very hard path that requires a lot of planning ahead.

[Anonymous User]

Not OP but another junior biglaw associate. I'm only interested in legal writing/LRW positions (as opposed to doctrinal), which I realize often aren't TT. Wondering how/if the criteria mentioned above changes at all if I'm only targeting these types of jobs. Are publications and clerkships both still essentially required to be competitive?

I don't have Bigelow-level credentials (lower T14, top 1/3 of class, V10), but am eventually hoping to land in a permanent LRW position.

[Pneumonia]

Not OP but another junior biglaw associate. I'm only interested in legal writing/LRW positions (as opposed to doctrinal), which I realize often aren't TT. Wondering how/if the criteria mentioned above changes at all if I'm only targeting these types of jobs. Are publications and clerkships both still essentially required to be competitive?

I don't have Bigelow-level credentials (lower T14, top 1/3 of class, V10), but am eventually hoping to land in a permanent LRW position.

In my experience, these positions most often go to established practitioners in a market. Teaching is fun, and there are plenty of people who want to do it. Best way to get one of these jobs is to establish a practice in a city that has a law school and then connect with a current writing instructor to make your interest known. I'd think you need minimum ten years' experience to get one of these though. At least that's how it is in the cities I work in (which together have 10 or so law schools). As with anything else, browse several law schools' "instructor" pages to see who they're hiring for LRW and what kind of credentials and experience those people have.

[Anonymous User]

Not OP but another junior biglaw associate. I'm only interested in legal writing/LRW positions (as opposed to doctrinal), which I realize often aren't TT. Wondering how/if the criteria mentioned above changes at all if I'm only targeting these types of jobs. Are publications and clerkships both still essentially required to be competitive?

I don't have Bigelow-level credentials (lower T14, top 1/3 of class, V10), but am eventually hoping to land in a permanent LRW position.

LRW positions generally require a minimum of 5 years of (preferably diverse) experience and some display of genuine interest in (a) teaching and (b) legal writing. Traditional academic credentials (i.e. school rank, class rank, journal membership, honors) are considerably less emphasized, although they're obviously not ignored.

Non-TT LRW positions (aka 90% of them) pay terribly compared to tenure-track roles. Your tenured full professor (as opposed to assistant/associate professor) might make $180,000 while you struggle to clear $85,000 as a full LRW professor. A TT professor will go from assistant to full in the industry-standard five years. It might take you fifteen years to go from LRW assistant to full, if your school even lets LRW professors be full professors. You're also likely to have a modifier on your title: clinical (professor), (professor) of instruction, (professor) of lawyering skills, etc.

While you won't be asked to publish at 90% of institutions, you'll still probably work harder than the podium/doctrinal professors, because you're reviewing multiple versions of lengthy legal writing, making thoughtful critiques (vs counting points), and constantly doing 1:1 sessions with students.

If you're still interested in it having read all of that, diversify your experience (5yrs between Biglaw + Clerkship + BigFed is a better candidate than 5yrs of Biglaw), get into the class room (adjunct wherever you can)(preferably teaching legal writing), and try to engage with the discipline by writing brief essays for your state bar (or any legal publication) on practice tips for better writing, analysis, or research. Finally, apply.

[Iowahawk]

There was also a good series of posts on this stuff (both TT and LRW) on Will Baude and Adam Chilton's blog that's worth reading

[Anonymous User]

There was also a good series of posts on this stuff (both TT and LRW) on Will Baude and Adam Chilton's blog that's worth reading

Poster before Iowahawk. I don't have the link on hand and am lazy, but the specific post Iowahawk is referencing on Baude/Chilton's blog is a guest post by Rachel Gurvich and Beth Wilensky. Don't remember the title.

[Lestersandy]

As the title suggests I'm currently 1st year BigLaw associate in a large market. I went to a T14 and was on two journals and published an article, but neither were law review. I externed with a federal judge in law school but didn't clerk. So I don't expect to be even looking at a tenure track position before gaining more experience. I'm hoping to apply to some clinical/adjunct/writing positions at schools in my state, and slowly start to build a career in academia. Does anyone have experience with that application process who had stats similar to mine?

Also, when's the best time to look for those positions? I don't think I want to stay in BigLaw more than a year or two.

If you want to adjunct, that’s fine, but it’s not leading to tenure track. If you want tenure track, you need to clerk. With a circuit court and probably a “preftigious” COA judge.

Being a first year biglaw associate won’t really help.