OCI HELP: BigLaw, eventually AUSA? Prestige of law firm? Smaller office/market? Forum

[blahblah5577]

I am a 2L at a T6, currently preparing my bid list for OCI. My goal is to get a BigLaw gig in litigation and eventually (after 3-5 years) transition into a USA’s office to work as a criminal AUSA. I realize that transitioning from BigLaw into an AUSA position is extremely competitive. I’m hoping that my demonstrated interest in criminal law and government during law school will give me a bit of a boost. This spring, I plan on applying to clerkships in federal district courts (which I’ve heard are more-or-less a requirement for AUSAs).

In terms of picking a firm, I want to make sure that I am setting myself up for success for a later transition into a USA’s office. From what I’ve gathered from other threads, these are some important factors:
• Pick a litigation practice, not a transactional one (duh…)
• Pick a firm where you will be able to get a “fair amount” of trial experience (compared to other BigLaw firms—maybe even somewhere where you could eventually second-chair before your tenure is up)
• Pick a practice that does white collar criminal defense and/or FCPA
• Pick a firm/practice where former USAs or AUSAs work

Any other tips for picking a BigLaw firm/practice when thinking ahead to a transition into the federal government (specifically to become a criminal AUSA)?

Also, I am currently focusing my job search on satellite offices in a smaller legal market (think Denver/Seattle/Charlotte). I understand the disadvantage of working in a satellite office in general, but do you think it would sabotage my transition into a USA’s office? Ideally, I’d like to eventually work as an AUSA in the same small legal market. Do you think that is realistic or do BigLaw people typically have to apply to a bunch of USA offices to land an AUSA position? If that's the case, would coming from a smaller legal market be a big disadvantage?

Similarly, how important is it that the firm is in the V10 or V20?

Thank you in advance for your advice!

[Anonymous User]

I've interacted with quite a few AUSAs in a market similar to those you mentioned (albeit slightly smaller), and I think the networking/geographic ties would make it quite a bit easier to move from, say, a Denver satellite office to the Colorado USAO than from say, an NY office to Colorado USAO. However, white collar work in non-NY/non-DC USAOs and law firms is relatively scarce. Getting into a Denver/Seattle/Charlotte satellite office in the first place will likely require some pretty significant ties to the area because each of those offices tend the hire only a handful of SAs. USAOs will still value general litigation experience at a biglaw satellite office (or even a regional midlaw firm), it just isn't quite as applicable as a more dedicated white collar/FCPA practice.

I think the question here is whether you want to do white collar crime or if you want to be a criminal prosecutor in a smaller market. If you want to do the former, I'd recommend shooting for DC/NY biglaw. But if you want to be in a smaller market, there wouldn't really be harm in applying for those BigLaw satellite offices, but trying the DoJ honors program or work as a DA in a smaller market could also be a pretty good pathway to a USAO. In the USAO where I live, I think it's a pretty decent split between former ADAs (~40%), former local midlaw (~40%), and former out-of-state biglaw (~20%). They're all viable paths that different USAOs see different value in. I say try for whatever you think you would be happiest doing even if you never end up becoming an AUSA.

[Anonymous User]

Plenty of biglaw people do have to apply to a lot of USAOs to get in the door, but plenty transition in their local market, too. Especially in smaller markets (the only kind I've ever practiced in), everyone knows each other, and ties matter. It might even be easier for a biglaw associate in Denver to move into the Denver USAO than for a similarly qualified biglaw associate in NYC to move into the Denver USAO, at least if the NYC associate doesn't have ties. Some of it will depend on who is the USA at the time you're looking to move, who they know and what they're looking for, but I think you've IDed the important things in your list. Don't rule out plain old criminal pro bono work, though.

[blahblah5577]

I've interacted with quite a few AUSAs in a market similar to those you mentioned (albeit slightly smaller), and I think the networking/geographic ties would make it quite a bit easier to move from, say, a Denver satellite office to the Colorado USAO than from say, an NY office to Colorado USAO. However, white collar work in non-NY/non-DC USAOs and law firms is relatively scarce. Getting into a Denver/Seattle/Charlotte satellite office in the first place will likely require some pretty significant ties to the area because each of those offices tend the hire only a handful of SAs. USAOs will still value general litigation experience at a biglaw satellite office (or even a regional midlaw firm), it just isn't quite as applicable as a more dedicated white collar/FCPA practice.

I think the question here is whether you want to do white collar crime or if you want to be a criminal prosecutor in a smaller market. If you want to do the former, I'd recommend shooting for DC/NY biglaw. But if you want to be in a smaller market, there wouldn't really be harm in applying for those BigLaw satellite offices, but trying the DoJ honors program or work as a DA in a smaller market could also be a pretty good pathway to a USAO. In the USAO where I live, I think it's a pretty decent split between former ADAs (~40%), former local midlaw (~40%), and former out-of-state biglaw (~20%). They're all viable paths that different USAOs see different value in. I say try for whatever you think you would be happiest doing even if you never end up becoming an AUSA.

Wow! Thank you so much for such a substantive reply. I really appreciate it.

Luckily, I do have what I think are sufficiently strong ties to have a shot at BigLaw satellite offices in the smaller legal market I'm interested in. Snagging one of the limited BigLaw SA spots in that market will definitely be the first hurdle though.

I'm really not particularly interested in white collar crime—so it's kind of a relief to hear that outside of NY and DC this isn't a practice area requirement for moving from BigLaw into a USAO, and that general litigation experience in a BigLaw satellite office would probably be sufficient to become a criminal AUSA handling guns/drugs/violent crime.

I think for many reasons I would be happier at a satellite office in the smaller legal market. It's good to hear that I'm not sabotaging my chances at an AUSA position by starting at a satellite office in the area.

If anyone has other thoughts about how to maximize my chances of eventually exiting into a USAO, I'm all ears!

Thanks again!

[blahblah5577]

Plenty of biglaw people do have to apply to a lot of USAOs to get in the door, but plenty transition in their local market, too. Especially in smaller markets (the only kind I've ever practiced in), everyone knows each other, and ties matter. It might even be easier for a biglaw associate in Denver to move into the Denver USAO than for a similarly qualified biglaw associate in NYC to move into the Denver USAO, at least if the NYC associate doesn't have ties. Some of it will depend on who is the USA at the time you're looking to move, who they know and what they're looking for, but I think you've IDed the important things in your list. Don't rule out plain old criminal pro bono work, though.

Thank you!

It's still amazing to me how much networking matters in the world of AUSA hiring, but I guess that would only work to my advantage if I had already been practicing in the small legal market for a while. And that makes sense that a lot would depend on who the USA is at the time I'm looking to transition. If they had come from out of state or out of the area, then they may not care as much that I'd been around for a while.

[blahblah5577]

Any thoughts on the importance of the prestige of the BigLaw firm?

[Anonymous User]

Most USAs will probably be pretty local, FWIW, in that they'll either be home-grown or will have worked there for a long time. It's more that some USAs favor local prosecutors, some favor big law, someone who went to the local law school may not care as much about pedigree, etc.

The question about firm prestige is likewise going to depend a little on the USA and office culture, mostly because there aren't a lot of clear measures of prestige. Vault rankings are incredibly limited and NY-centric. A given USA may favor particular firms, but that may not match up with conventional rankings. And a firm that's prestigious in a small market may not be prestigious in NYC or DC or the like. A firm that offers you substantive litigation experience and/or has a lot of former AUSAs is going to be much more helpful than a firm that's prestigious in a vacuum.

[Anonymous User]

I agree with the above anon re: firm prestige. In any given smaller market, there will only be a handful of biglaw firms with a significant footprint. Go to whichever one you think will give you the most substantive litigation experience or one that seems to have ties to the local USAO (i.e. partners who have previously worked there). I also wouldn't limit yourself to Vault 100 firms; plenty of more regional firms are just as prestigious locally as their more nationally-focused counterparts.

[Iowahawk]

I am a 2L at a T6, currently preparing my bid list for OCI. My goal is to get a BigLaw gig in litigation and eventually (after 3-5 years) transition into a USA’s office to work as a criminal AUSA. I realize that transitioning from BigLaw into an AUSA position is extremely competitive. I’m hoping that my demonstrated interest in criminal law and government during law school will give me a bit of a boost. This spring, I plan on applying to clerkships in federal district courts (which I’ve heard are more-or-less a requirement for AUSAs).

In terms of picking a firm, I want to make sure that I am setting myself up for success for a later transition into a USA’s office. From what I’ve gathered from other threads, these are some important factors:
• Pick a litigation practice, not a transactional one (duh…)
• Pick a firm where you will be able to get a “fair amount” of trial experience (compared to other BigLaw firms—maybe even somewhere where you could eventually second-chair before your tenure is up)
• Pick a practice that does white collar criminal defense and/or FCPA
• Pick a firm/practice where former USAs or AUSAs work

Any other tips for picking a BigLaw firm/practice when thinking ahead to a transition into the federal government (specifically to become a criminal AUSA)?

Also, I am currently focusing my job search on satellite offices in a smaller legal market (think Denver/Seattle/Charlotte). I understand the disadvantage of working in a satellite office in general, but do you think it would sabotage my transition into a USA’s office? Ideally, I’d like to eventually work as an AUSA in the same small legal market. Do you think that is realistic or do BigLaw people typically have to apply to a bunch of USA offices to land an AUSA position? If that's the case, would coming from a smaller legal market be a big disadvantage?

Similarly, how important is it that the firm is in the V10 or V20?

Thank you in advance for your advice!

Just a few points on this
1. My impression is that FCPA is (a) incredibly DC-heavy and (b) never involves trials
2. If you want to work as an AUSA in the jurisdiction it makes complete sense to try to work at a firm there
3. Vault is mostly about transactional practices in NYC, definitely do not pay attention to it for white collar or commercial lit in a small market. Look at Chambers and Partners and firm websites to see who seems to have the best and most litigators, look at Litigation Analytics on Westlaw to see who seems to have the most and biggest cases/clients, talk to alumni or older students from the market, etc.
4. Don't necessarily limit yourself to biglaw, as an example in my small hometown market (Iowa) the top local firms are probably more prestigious than the biglaw satellites (Dorsey and Faegre), there's a 25 attorney firm that pays 1.5x as much as the biglaw firms, and the best white collar practice is at a 5 attorney lit boutique.
5. Expect a lot of the top firms in your market to not be at OCI unless your law school is close to it geographically. Follow directions on their website for how to apply.

[nahumya]

As someone who interviewed for AUSA in a big city market: Litigation experience will matter much more than prestige of the firm. Look into litigation boutiques, since you'll get much more hands on experience there (and potentially get paid more than at biglaw). Do hands-on pro bono litigation cases. Get in touch with the AUSA office and let them know you are interested even if there is no open position posted. In the office where I applied, they maintain a rolling list of folks in the area who are interested and notify them when a position opens up, since the hiring itself is done in a pretty rigid way.

[blahblah5577]

I agree with the above anon re: firm prestige. In any given smaller market, there will only be a handful of biglaw firms with a significant footprint. Go to whichever one you think will give you the most substantive litigation experience or one that seems to have ties to the local USAO (i.e. partners who have previously worked there). I also wouldn't limit yourself to Vault 100 firms; plenty of more regional firms are just as prestigious locally as their more nationally-focused counterparts.

Thank you! Good to know that regional firms can be just as prestigious locally—I've already applied to a few. My only concern is the pay gap between those kinds of firms and the BigLaw satellite offices. But targeting a smaller market, I guess I can't be too picky.

[blahblah5577]

Just a few points on this
1. My impression is that FCPA is (a) incredibly DC-heavy and (b) never involves trials
2. If you want to work as an AUSA in the jurisdiction it makes complete sense to try to work at a firm there
3. Vault is mostly about transactional practices in NYC, definitely do not pay attention to it for white collar or commercial lit in a small market. Look at Chambers and Partners and firm websites to see who seems to have the best and most litigators, look at Litigation Analytics on Westlaw to see who seems to have the most and biggest cases/clients, talk to alumni or older students from the market, etc.
4. Don't necessarily limit yourself to biglaw, as an example in my small hometown market (Iowa) the top local firms are probably more prestigious than the biglaw satellites (Dorsey and Faegre), there's a 25 attorney firm that pays 1.5x as much as the biglaw firms, and the best white collar practice is at a 5 attorney lit boutique.
5. Expect a lot of the top firms in your market to not be at OCI unless your law school is close to it geographically. Follow directions on their website for how to apply.

Thank you! That's surprising to learn that some of the local firms pay more than the BigLaw satellites. So far, I'm seeing the opposite in the small market I'm looking at, but I'm also unable to find salaries at some of the local firms. I appreciate you taking the time.

[blahblah5577]

As someone who interviewed for AUSA in a big city market: Litigation experience will matter much more than prestige of the firm. Look into litigation boutiques, since you'll get much more hands on experience there (and potentially get paid more than at biglaw). Do hands-on pro bono litigation cases. Get in touch with the AUSA office and let them know you are interested even if there is no open position posted. In the office where I applied, they maintain a rolling list of folks in the area who are interested and notify them when a position opens up, since the hiring itself is done in a pretty rigid way.

Thank you! Exceedingly helpful