Behind as a midlevel? Forum

[Anonymous User]

I know of very few firms where a third year is midlevel.

EC/VC midlevel in the Bay Area at a top firm in my field -- third years are 100% midlevels at my firm and expected to run deals with minimal senior associate/partner input. Draft and turn comments to the main financing documents, handle communication with the client and company/investor-side counsel, coordinate the team running diligence, and supervise juniors drafting ancillaries. The ramp up is pretty quick and you're expected to have the deal flow process locked down by the time you're done with your second year.

Agree generally with the thread that third years in M&A deals are still junior to a large extent and going to be performing tasks in that vein but overall, imagine that this tends to be pretty practice group-specific.

To be more helpful toward OP, think what you're feeling at the moment is fairly normal and something that's only going to subside with the benefit of time and getting reps doing midlevel tasks during deals. You'll take your lumps but probably better to be overly inquisitive towards partners/senior associates than not so.

[Anonymous User]

I know of very few firms where a third year is midlevel.

EC/VC midlevel in the Bay Area at a top firm in my field -- third years are 100% midlevels at my firm and expected to run deals with minimal senior associate/partner input. Draft and turn comments to the main financing documents, handle communication with the client and company/investor-side counsel, coordinate the team running diligence, and supervise juniors drafting ancillaries. The ramp up is pretty quick and you're expected to have the deal flow process locked down by the time you're done with your second year.

Agree generally with the thread that third years in M&A deals are still junior to a large extent and going to be performing tasks in that vein but overall, imagine that this tends to be pretty practice group-specific.

To be more helpful toward OP, think what you're feeling at the moment is fairly normal and something that's only going to subside with the benefit of time and getting reps doing midlevel tasks during deals. You'll take your lumps but probably better to be overly inquisitive towards partners/senior associates than not so.

That's a fair point and I agree, at least from what I've seen/heard, third years do/can run VC financings. I've also definitely seen late third years run relatively straight forward bank financings as well. It all depends on how complicated the transactions are. If you are doing M&A, or similarly complicated transactional work, at some point in your third year, I would expect you to be able to handle more or less running dilligence, running the checklist, run the closing, all the simple ancillaries, all the coordination with specialists and begin to get opportunities on more substantive documents/issues but generally not produce something particularly good or spot most/all the issues or concerns. If you are in a more complicated practice area, it just takes a really long time to get good. I really wouldn't be concerned over lack of mastery until your 5/6 year.

[polareagle]

I know of very few firms where a third year is midlevel.

I doubt that there are any, despite the fervent protestations of second and third years in this thread

I've wondered about this. At my firm, we refer to 3rd years as midlevels, at least in the corporate group. In fact, I'm speaking on a panel during orientation for the new class and it's labeled as "advice from midlevels to juniors." I'm a third year.

We also generally view 5th years as seniors. Not sure if that's the case at other firms, too.

I’m at a high end lit boutique and 3rd year is definitely midlevel here. We have a 6ish year partnership track so it’s 1-2 years junior, 3-4 years midlevel, and 5-6/7 as a senior. A 3rd year at my boutique is expected to have argued in court, taken depositions, and run clients (at least by the end of ones 3rd year). But we are a lit boutique, we don’t have the associate bloat where a junior or midlevel can hide for much longer than a month or two before it’s painfully obvious they aren’t a good fit.

Curious, are you counting years spent clerking for year credit, or are you saying people in their third year at the firm are midlevels. I know of at least one semi-boutique that starts associates as "first years" after their clerkships are completed. At most big law firms, you get class credit for your clerkship, so it's easy to arrive at the very end of your second year after you've completed two clerkships.

I guess to put a finer point on it, are you saying that at your firm, people who do a district court and COA clerkship arrive in say September and four months later are considered midlevels, despite, you know, never having actually practiced law?

[FedFan123]

Lol, amazing the number of second and third years passionately arguing in this thread that third years are midlevels - relax guys, you’ll get there soon enough

[Anonymous User]

If the group doesn't pick up you'll become even more senior and with that comes more explaining to do about why you don't have more experience when you hit the lateral market.