Bankruptcy Career Paths Forum

[Anonymous User]

I am currently a junior associate at a big law firm doing bankruptcy work (debtor-side). I enjoy the substantive work quite a bit but I am starting to question how long I can make it in big law bankruptcy. It's not necessarily the volume of hours that I work that bothers me, but the insane unpredictability of the hours (like not knowing what is coming the next day/spending days busting your ass and canceling your plans only to find out you're not filing/etc.) + the intense travel requirements (I only experienced a bit of this pre-COVID and I wonder how much of it will continue in the future as flying associates all over the country probably seems like an unproductive expense now. A little bit of travel, like 2-4 nights a month, is probably the most I can handle being away from my wife and kids. Plus I have heard so many travel horror stories and I am just not well suited for the kind of regular discomfort that comes from traveling and working at an airport).

I also see that these circumstances don't really improve as your career progresses into becoming a partner. Sure, you may know more information about the case so there is a little less unpredictability, but you still have a volatile and difficult schedule. I honestly don't know how the partners with families do it.

But like I said, I do enjoy bankruptcy work quite a bit. I know most bankruptcy jobs for lawyers are going to be in private practice/big law. Does representing creditors require the same unpredictability and level of travel as representing debtors? What other options exist besides private practice can I pursue? What kind of experiences and requirements would these options require? Can I do something with 3-5 years of experience in bankruptcy, or will I need to be a senior associate/nonshare partner level to obtain those kinds of opportunities?

[Anonymous User]

I am a sixth year associate handling both debtor and creditor work. My advice is to run while you can. I think it is a horrible practice in terms of trying to manage your time and your life.

When you’re dealing with financial distress and a company that can’t make payroll it is truly horrible. It’s an emergency to file. Then they find the money and don’t file. The cycle repeats for months.

It’s no better with a committee. You have to draft a full blown DIP or cash collateral objection only to settle at the last minute. Then you have to revise the order. Then it’s lien investigation, challenges, etc.

Auctions and sales are also atrocious.

The practice might be fun for a few years but that quickly expires.

I actually think I would like staying at a firm but for this atrocious practice, which is too bad. Other practices don’t really understand how bad our practice is. I always laugh when someone from another group tells me they’re busy. They have no idea what we deal with.

Exit options suck. Be prepared to have to sell all of your “experience” dealing with a lot of transactional stuff to get a job. It won’t be easy.

Just my thoughts.

[Sackboy]

Honestly, I'm not a BK person, but it might be easier to sell your litigation experience. I've seen a few BK colleagues move in-house in lit roles. They generally sell all the drafting they do in combination with their project management skills.

[umichman]

I am a sixth year associate handling both debtor and creditor work. My advice is to run while you can. I think it is a horrible practice in terms of trying to manage your time and your life.

When you’re dealing with financial distress and a company that can’t make payroll it is truly horrible. It’s an emergency to file. Then they find the money and don’t file. The cycle repeats for months.

It’s no better with a committee. You have to draft a full blown DIP or cash collateral objection only to settle at the last minute. Then you have to revise the order. Then it’s lien investigation, challenges, etc.

Auctions and sales are also atrocious.

The practice might be fun for a few years but that quickly expires.

I actually think I would like staying at a firm but for this atrocious practice, which is too bad. Other practices don’t really understand how bad our practice is. I always laugh when someone from another group tells me they’re busy. They have no idea what we deal with.

Exit options suck. Be prepared to have to sell all of your “experience” dealing with a lot of transactional stuff to get a job. It won’t be easy.

Just my thoughts.

Why dont you switch practice groups???

[Anonymous User]

I am a sixth year associate handling both debtor and creditor work. My advice is to run while you can. I think it is a horrible practice in terms of trying to manage your time and your life.

When you’re dealing with financial distress and a company that can’t make payroll it is truly horrible. It’s an emergency to file. Then they find the money and don’t file. The cycle repeats for months.

It’s no better with a committee. You have to draft a full blown DIP or cash collateral objection only to settle at the last minute. Then you have to revise the order. Then it’s lien investigation, challenges, etc.

Auctions and sales are also atrocious.

The practice might be fun for a few years but that quickly expires.

I actually think I would like staying at a firm but for this atrocious practice, which is too bad. Other practices don’t really understand how bad our practice is. I always laugh when someone from another group tells me they’re busy. They have no idea what we deal with.

Exit options suck. Be prepared to have to sell all of your “experience” dealing with a lot of transactional stuff to get a job. It won’t be easy.

Just my thoughts.

Why dont you switch practice groups???

You don’t switch practice groups as a sixth year associate. I’m not taking a class hit.

[umichman]

I am a sixth year associate handling both debtor and creditor work. My advice is to run while you can. I think it is a horrible practice in terms of trying to manage your time and your life.

When you’re dealing with financial distress and a company that can’t make payroll it is truly horrible. It’s an emergency to file. Then they find the money and don’t file. The cycle repeats for months.

It’s no better with a committee. You have to draft a full blown DIP or cash collateral objection only to settle at the last minute. Then you have to revise the order. Then it’s lien investigation, challenges, etc.

Auctions and sales are also atrocious.

The practice might be fun for a few years but that quickly expires.

I actually think I would like staying at a firm but for this atrocious practice, which is too bad. Other practices don’t really understand how bad our practice is. I always laugh when someone from another group tells me they’re busy. They have no idea what we deal with.

Exit options suck. Be prepared to have to sell all of your “experience” dealing with a lot of transactional stuff to get a job. It won’t be easy.

Just my thoughts.

Why dont you switch practice groups???

You don’t switch practice groups as a sixth year associate. I’m not taking a class hit.

That reasoning doesnt make sense to me. You sound absolutely miserable. You are 6 years into what is likely a 25-30 year career, and you wont consider taking a pay cut for a few years to do something you may like more for a long time? Am also a big law mid-level associate, and I know this is definitely possible.

[Anonymous User]

What about going in-house to work for a bank or fund? Would those hours be better and is it an attainable exit option?
What other practice groups could I feasibly lateral into? Debt finance? I would be interested in switching to litigation too tbh but I don't think I have the credentials for that at my firm (I did go to a t14 and made cum laude/was on a journal, but nothing special).
What about working for the US trustee? I know it's a massive pay cut though...

[Iowahawk]

As with most things in big law, if you have ties you can try to lateral into a smaller firm/market that deals with matters that are less sophisticated (and I imagine the drop-off in sophistication is probably much higher in BK than in generic commercial lit) and lower-paying but with more reasonable and predictable hours.

One randomly chosen creditor-side example: https://www.dgslaw.com/what-we-do/exper ... ors-rights

[bajablast]

For the travel aspect of OP's concerns, I can't imagine you will travel as much as you used to. None of us has a crystal ball that tells us when COVID will no longer be a concern and what the world will look like at that point in time. But I think the trend across all professions and industries is going to be less in-person time, which includes travel. Most law firms have seen an increase in productivity with WFH and are even considering downsizing their real estate footprints. This especially makes sense for bankruptcy - why waste the debtors' estate on plane tickets when there is zoom? Unless the debtor's firm wants to foot the bill, I know creditors are going to jump all over that shit.

[soft blue]

I am a sixth year associate handling both debtor and creditor work. My advice is to run while you can. I think it is a horrible practice in terms of trying to manage your time and your life.

When you’re dealing with financial distress and a company that can’t make payroll it is truly horrible. It’s an emergency to file. Then they find the money and don’t file. The cycle repeats for months.

It’s no better with a committee. You have to draft a full blown DIP or cash collateral objection only to settle at the last minute. Then you have to revise the order. Then it’s lien investigation, challenges, etc.

Auctions and sales are also atrocious.

The practice might be fun for a few years but that quickly expires.

I actually think I would like staying at a firm but for this atrocious practice, which is too bad. Other practices don’t really understand how bad our practice is. I always laugh when someone from another group tells me they’re busy. They have no idea what we deal with.

Exit options suck. Be prepared to have to sell all of your “experience” dealing with a lot of transactional stuff to get a job. It won’t be easy.

Just my thoughts.

Anon, are you at Akin? Only NYC BigLaw I can think of that does UCC reps like you're describing and I'd guess you have a few debtor reps like the other major creditor houses do.

[anonguest]

I would say that the work at most of the Chambers topped-ranked creditor shops will be similar in terms of workload/pacing (i.e. Akin/PW/Milbank/DPW will all be pretty similar). Once you drop to lower ranked firms that don't have the same type of Ad Hoc/UCC/Debtor representations (and instead are representing ITs, Agents, individual creditors, etc.) I think the equation changes significantly.

[Anonymous User]

I would say that the work at most of the Chambers topped-ranked creditor shops will be similar in terms of workload/pacing (i.e. Akin/PW/Milbank/DPW will all be pretty similar). Once you drop to lower ranked firms that don't have the same type of Ad Hoc/UCC/Debtor representations (and instead are representing ITs, Agents, individual creditors, etc.) I think the equation changes significantly.

How so?

[Anonymous User]

Fifth year at a band 1 with a more creditor tilt. All of our exits in the past 2 years have been to desk lawyer positions at funds or credit/distressed desks or to smaller firms back home. Twice as many to funds. Feels like debtor shops generally exit to other BigLaw or FAs

[Anonymous User]

Right now should be a great time to try solo at bk. Covid is ruining a lot of businesses. Plus destroying a lot of retirement plans. I know people getting hurt on purpose for disability claims. Even more so than usual. It's nuts. Plus almost no one is taking taxes out on those pandemic unemployment payments, so THAT is going to hit the fan soon. Now is the time. Advertise on Craigslist and stuff. They'll flock to you.

[samlarson]

As with most things in big law, if you have ties you can try to lateral into a smaller firm/market that deals with matters that are less sophisticated (and I imagine the drop-off in sophistication is probably much higher in BK than in generic commercial lit) and lower-paying but with more reasonable and predictable hours.

One randomly chosen creditor-side example: https://www.dgslaw.com/what-we-do/descriptive/bankruptcy-creditors-rights

[Anonymous User]

What about going in-house to work for a bank or fund? Would those hours be better and is it an attainable exit option?
What other practice groups could I feasibly lateral into? Debt finance? I would be interested in switching to litigation too tbh but I don't think I have the credentials for that at my firm (I did go to a t14 and made cum laude/was on a journal, but nothing special).
What about working for the US trustee? I know it's a massive pay cut though...

Also interested in hearing about possibility of bank/fund in-house exit options for bk lawyers

[Anonymous User]

What about going in-house to work for a bank or fund? Would those hours be better and is it an attainable exit option?
What other practice groups could I feasibly lateral into? Debt finance? I would be interested in switching to litigation too tbh but I don't think I have the credentials for that at my firm (I did go to a t14 and made cum laude/was on a journal, but nothing special).
What about working for the US trustee? I know it's a massive pay cut though...

Also interested in hearing about possibility of bank/fund in-house exit options for bk lawyers

Creditor-side band 1 anon here who knows people who made those exits. You'll be a workouts guy at a bank or fund most likely; less likely but possible that you're helping buyside evaluate distressed investment opportunities. Hours and lifestyle vary considerably; general thesis is that it's better to be at a bank than a fund but compensation reflects that. Familiarity with outside-bankruptcy restructuring is very helpful (people I know who got those jobs had a solid finance / remedies background). They tell me they are kinda like general contractors: they supervise the outside attorneys (who do the sophisticated or heavy-labor stuff) and do basic matters themselves.

[Anonymous User]

What about going in-house to work for a bank or fund? Would those hours be better and is it an attainable exit option?
What other practice groups could I feasibly lateral into? Debt finance? I would be interested in switching to litigation too tbh but I don't think I have the credentials for that at my firm (I did go to a t14 and made cum laude/was on a journal, but nothing special).
What about working for the US trustee? I know it's a massive pay cut though...

Also interested in hearing about possibility of bank/fund in-house exit options for bk lawyers

Creditor-side band 1 anon here who knows people who made those exits. You'll be a workouts guy at a bank or fund most likely; less likely but possible that you're helping buyside evaluate distressed investment opportunities. Hours and lifestyle vary considerably; general thesis is that it's better to be at a bank than a fund but compensation reflects that. Familiarity with outside-bankruptcy restructuring is very helpful (people I know who got those jobs had a solid finance / remedies background). They tell me they are kinda like general contractors: they supervise the outside attorneys (who do the sophisticated or heavy-labor stuff) and do basic matters themselves.

Guy who works at a fund now. Super interesting part is often times, you also have options to do the business side as well (underwriting, sitting on boards, sitting on committees). Aka not in house counsel.

You'd be surprised how many lawyers are on the business side in RX roles.

[soft blue]

You'd be surprised how many lawyers are on the business side in RX roles.

Could you PM me?