Salary inquiry Forum

[Anonymous User]

Howdy all,

Just got an offer from a firm (lets call it firmW) in a small southern market - think Louisville/NOLA/ LR/Mem/Bham/Richmond- with a pretty decent sized firm, top 3 size wise in the market. They offered me 80. I'm ecstatic I got the offer and it is the firm I really want to be with. I also received another offer in a different market with higher pay; however, it is not in the city I want to practice in. FirmW knows I got this other offer, and while they don't know the exact salary I was offered they know and have told me they won't be able to be competitive with these kind of numbers. I don't need them to match it by any means, but would it be acceptable to ask for slightly more? I was kinda hoping to push them to 85 or 90; is it worth asking for or should I accept and try negotiating after being with them for a year? Thanks y'all

[Anonymous User]

Having worked for firms in one of those cities, my sense is that negotiating is not the norm for new associates just starting out. My experience is that firms offer what they can, which is presumably the market rate in the city, and I haven't heard of anyone trying to push that higher. But it probably wouldn't hurt to ask politely while emphasizing that you're just checking and not planning to go with the other firm if they say no.

[sparty99]

Howdy all,

Just got an offer from a firm (lets call it firmW) in a small southern market - think Louisville/NOLA/ LR/Mem/Bham/Richmond- with a pretty decent sized firm, top 3 size wise in the market. They offered me 80. I'm ecstatic I got the offer and it is the firm I really want to be with. I also received another offer in a different market with higher pay; however, it is not in the city I want to practice in. FirmW knows I got this other offer, and while they don't know the exact salary I was offered they know and have told me they won't be able to be competitive with these kind of numbers. I don't need them to match it by any means, but would it be acceptable to ask for slightly more? I was kinda hoping to push them to 85 or 90; is it worth asking for or should I accept and try negotiating after being with them for a year? Thanks y'all

I would ask for 92 and don't tell them you would accept regardless of their answer as they would have no incentive to raise the salary. $80 seems low for an attorney even in a small market.

[CanadianWolf]

The firm already told you that they cannot compete. Asking for $92,000 when their offer to you is $80,000 might cause the firm to move on as it appears that you are clearly dissatisfied with the $80,000 offer. If anything, ask for a $5,000 bonus for passing the bar exam.

[nixy]

It probably depends on how much higher pay your other offer is. If the offer that FirmW has already said they can’t be competitive with is say, $95k, then yeah, asking for $92k probably won’t fly. If the other firm is offering like $100-110k, there may be room to move.

[Anonymous User]

This is the OP. The other firm offered me 105-120 range. I'm thinking of asking for 88k and just restating how interested I am etc.; they kind of know that they are my number 1 choice at this point. I originally asked firmW for an offer, as the other firm made me an offer first; I went to firmW and told them about the other offer and how firmW was my number 1 choice (as it is in the city I need to be in for personal reasons and I honestly prefer firmW). When having this initial discussion firmW stated they couldn't match the pay scale of the other firm but stated they'd potentially be able to offer around 85k. I'm hoping by asking for 88 I don't look like too much of a dickhead, don't look too petty, and am able to land at 85- is that reasonable or should I ask for 85 or just take the offer as is? It isn't world ending money, but helps some with debt and other expenses etc.
Thanks everyone for the help, I really appreciate it.

[CanadianWolf]

If your preferred firm indicated that they could go to $85,000, then why argue over $3,000 ?

It's interesting that, knowing of your other offer, the firm's partners stated that they are willing to go to $85,000, but only offered you $80,000.

[Anonymous User]

If your preferred firm indicated that they could go to $85,000, then why argue over $3,000 ?

It's interesting that, knowing of your other offer, the firm's partners stated that they are willing to go to $85,000, but only offered you $80,000.

Yeah, it took me a little by surprise. It was an impromptu meeting with one of the partners (kinda my mentor) and he told me it would be "like around 85" and didn't say much else regarding it. A few weeks went by and I know he went to the board and then when they officially gave me the offer it was for 80- so I'm not sure how to move next basically.
You think then just asking for the 85 is the go to move?

[4LTsPointingNorth]

Would you be deeply unhappy working at the firm offering 105-120? If so ask for 85.

If the other firm and its location is not ideal but you could live with it for some period of time, then I would ask for at least 90 or more from your preferred firm. If they push back, ask if you can settle for a lower annual salary (i.e., 85) but get a 5-10K signing bonus or something along those lines.

You have much more leverage to negotiate your starting salary up front now, particularly since you have a higher offer in hand, than you will when it comes time to ask for a raise later.

[Anonymous User]

Based on my experience, if you want to get to 85, you need to ask for 90. As long as you are respectful, I have a hard time believing someone would rescind an offer over a little salary negotiation. For all you know, they offered 80 to leave some room in case you do ask for more.

[nixy]

If your preferred firm indicated that they could go to $85,000, then why argue over $3,000 ?

It's interesting that, knowing of your other offer, the firm's partners stated that they are willing to go to $85,000, but only offered you $80,000.

Because why leave money on the table? Maybe FirmW expects the OP to negotiate. I agree with the post above this one that respectful negotiation shouldn't lead a firm to rescind an offer. If they did, that would be a bullet dodged, I would think.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks all so much for the advice. Any advice on how to ask for it?
I was thinking of something along the lines of "Thanks so much for the offer, and I'm really excited etc; due to debt, and other things, I was hoping we could start 90k, would that work with you all?" Something akin to that? Sorry, hah, I'm really bad at negotiating and haven't really done it before. Thanks again!

[sparty99]

Thanks all so much for the advice. Any advice on how to ask for it?
I was thinking of something along the lines of "Thanks so much for the offer, and I'm really excited etc; due to debt, and other things, I was hoping we could start 90k, would that work with you all?" Something akin to that? Sorry, hah, I'm really bad at negotiating and haven't really done it before. Thanks again!

Thank you for the offer. I am really excited about the possibility of working for xyz. The salary offered was at 80k, based on my market research, i was hoping for a salary of $92,000. Is there any flexibility on your base offer?

You can also Google how to ask. I just think 80k is low especially since other firm is offering 40k more. That's a big difference. I would be aggressive in my negotiation. You have a back up.

[sparty99]

Also, asking for a bonus instead of a salary increase is not smart because you want the higher base. You only ask for a sign on bonus after they reject your 92k.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks all so much for the advice. Any advice on how to ask for it?
I was thinking of something along the lines of "Thanks so much for the offer, and I'm really excited etc; due to debt, and other things, I was hoping we could start 90k, would that work with you all?" Something akin to that? Sorry, hah, I'm really bad at negotiating and haven't really done it before. Thanks again!

Thank you for the offer. I am really excited about the possibility of working for xyz. The salary offered was at 80k, based on my market research, i was hoping for a salary of $92,000. Is there any flexibility on your base offer?

You can also Google how to ask. I just think 80k is low especially since other firm is offering 40k more. That's a big difference. I would be aggressive in my negotiation. You have a back up.

Hey Sparty, this is the OP; thanks so much for the advice. The higher salary actually is in a different region though and a bigger city. It isn't the same payscale as this city. Does that alter anything?

[sparty99]

Thanks all so much for the advice. Any advice on how to ask for it?
I was thinking of something along the lines of "Thanks so much for the offer, and I'm really excited etc; due to debt, and other things, I was hoping we could start 90k, would that work with you all?" Something akin to that? Sorry, hah, I'm really bad at negotiating and haven't really done it before. Thanks again!

Thank you for the offer. I am really excited about the possibility of working for xyz. The salary offered was at 80k, based on my market research, i was hoping for a salary of $92,000. Is there any flexibility on your base offer?

You can also Google how to ask. I just think 80k is low especially since other firm is offering 40k more. That's a big difference. I would be aggressive in my negotiation. You have a back up.

Hey Sparty, this is the OP; thanks so much for the advice. The higher salary actually is in a different region though and a bigger city. It isn't the same payscale as this city. Does that alter anything?

It would probably make a difference. I would also check NALP to see what the two other larger firms in the market pay.

[CanadianWolf]

A job offer for an inexperienced law graduate in one's preferred location during the pandemic is significant. Have you even passed the relevant state bar ?

Asking for $90,000 when having been offered $80,000 after having been told that the firm might be able to go to $85,000 probably will be perceived as an indication that you are willing to take the other offer in a different region. Are your ties and talents that much more valuable to this firm than those of other job candidates seeking to work in your preferred city ?

I recommend asking for a $5,000 bonus for passing the bar because you are much more likely to get it than an immediate 12.5% pay increase.

While the willingness and ability to negotiate in an effective manner is an important skill for attorneys, exhibiting common sense is an even more important talent. Asking for well above market pay as an inexperienced recent law graduate does not show that one possesses common sense grounded in reality and it risks pushing the law firm to move on to a more reasonable candidate for the position.

In short, only ask for $90,000 if you are willing to accept the loss of this job offer and feel confident that the offer for more pay in the bigger city located in a different region will still be available.

How much negotiating leverage do you think that you have ?

Are you willing to & able to take the other offer if Firm W decides to move on to another candidate for the position ?

[sparty99]

A job offer for an inexperienced law graduate in one's preferred location during the pandemic is significant. Have you even passed the relevant state bar ?

Asking for $90,000 when having been offered $80,000 after having been told that the firm might be able to go to $85,000 probably will be perceived as an indication that you are willing to take the other offer in a different region. Are your ties and talents that much more valuable to this firm than those of other job candidates seeking to work in your preferred city ?

I recommend asking for a $5,000 bonus for passing the bar because you are much more likely to get it than an immediate 12.5% pay increase.

While the willingness and ability to negotiate in an effective manner is an important skill for attorneys, exhibiting common sense is an even more important talent. Asking for well above market pay as an inexperienced recent law graduate does not show that one possesses common sense grounded in reality and it risks pushing the law firm to move on to a more reasonable candidate for the position.

In short, only ask for $90,000 if you are willing to accept the loss of this job offer and feel confident that the offer for more pay in the bigger city located in a different region will still be available.

How much negotiating leverage do you think that you have ?

Are you willing to & able to take the other offer if Firm W decides to move on to another candidate for the position ?

I wouldn't listen to Canadian wolf and you might tell the firm that your other offer is at 120k to provide context.

[CanadianWolf]

Firm W already knows what the competing firm offers first year associates.

You are free to take any approach that you want in trying to negotiate for more money.