Working in state/local government in NYC Forum

[istan]

I’ve decided I’m not interested in biglaw and have been thinking about government jobs. I want to be in NYC, and I think local government jobs are a good option (obviously there are also federal jobs in NYC, but I like the idea of working for the city and I think local jobs might be more attainable and have better work-life balance).

I don’t know much about these jobs or how to get one (they’re not discussed much on here). I’m interested in the NYC law department, but I’m also wondering about other ways lawyers work for state and local government. I assume there are state and city agencies that hire lawyers, the city council hires lawyers to draft legislation, etc. It would be helpful to hear about other opportunities to look into.

My main concern is that my resume so far doesn’t show an interest in this kind of job. I’m a 3L at a T50 school (not in the Northeast, but does have an alumni presence in NYC and a few at the NYC law department) and I spent my 2L summer at a large firm in a secondary market. I’m doing a federal district clerkship in the same city next year, and then I would be applying to these jobs. I’m on law review and expect to graduate in the top 10%, so I imagine I might have a competitive edge over a lot of the people that apply to these jobs, but I’m not sure.

Is it a problem that I’ve never lived in NYC? Or that I don’t have experience in local government or the public sector? (I did work for a nonprofit before law school, so I could talk up my public service side.) I know the NYC law department has a summer program—will it be difficult to lateral in since I haven’t done that?

Also, will hiring for these jobs be way down after budget shortfalls due to Covid?

Finally, I know these jobs pay a lot less than firm jobs and aren’t really prestigious, but I think I would find working in local government fulfilling and I don’t need a big salary, so only helpful comments about how to make this happen please.

[nixy]

I can’t give a lot of specific advice, but it seems to me that trying to jump both to public service and to an entirely different market is going to be a bit of an issue. It makes sense for biglaw people to want to be in NYC as it’s the center of that universe, but I don’t think you can say the same for city/local government, so you may have to have a more compelling explanation.

In the smaller settings than NYC that I’m familiar with. city/local government jobs largely seemed to go to people who 1) had pertinent practice experience already and/or 2) connections. Certainly there can be some entry level stuff, but it seemed that generally they followed the typical government thing of trying to hire experienced people.

That said, I’d hit up every alum from your school that you can find in the NYC law department and get as much information from them as you can - that will be much more practical and helpful than likely most responses you’ll get here.

[sparty99]

I’ve decided I’m not interested in biglaw and have been thinking about government jobs. I want to be in NYC, and I think local government jobs are a good option (obviously there are also federal jobs in NYC, but I like the idea of working for the city and I think local jobs might be more attainable and have better work-life balance).

I don’t know much about these jobs or how to get one (they’re not discussed much on here). I’m interested in the NYC law department, but I’m also wondering about other ways lawyers work for state and local government. I assume there are state and city agencies that hire lawyers, the city council hires lawyers to draft legislation, etc. It would be helpful to hear about other opportunities to look into.

My main concern is that my resume so far doesn’t show an interest in this kind of job. I’m a 3L at a T50 school (not in the Northeast, but does have an alumni presence in NYC and a few at the NYC law department) and I spent my 2L summer at a large firm in a secondary market. I’m doing a federal district clerkship in the same city next year, and then I would be applying to these jobs. I’m on law review and expect to graduate in the top 10%, so I imagine I might have a competitive edge over a lot of the people that apply to these jobs, but I’m not sure.

Is it a problem that I’ve never lived in NYC? Or that I don’t have experience in local government or the public sector? (I did work for a nonprofit before law school, so I could talk up my public service side.) I know the NYC law department has a summer program—will it be difficult to lateral in since I haven’t done that?

Also, will hiring for these jobs be way down after budget shortfalls due to Covid?

Finally, I know these jobs pay a lot less than firm jobs and aren’t really prestigious, but I think I would find working in local government fulfilling and I don’t need a big salary, so only helpful comments about how to make this happen please.

While you may not be interested in big law, you should still apply to big law positions in NYC. Even a year or 2 at Big law will give you a nice salary and a lot of government jobs want prior experience which you may satisfy with your clerkship, but I would also seek out big law.

[istan]

I can’t give a lot of specific advice, but it seems to me that trying to jump both to public service and to an entirely different market is going to be a bit of an issue. It makes sense for biglaw people to want to be in NYC as it’s the center of that universe, but I don’t think you can say the same for city/local government, so you may have to have a more compelling explanation.

In the smaller settings than NYC that I’m familiar with. city/local government jobs largely seemed to go to people who 1) had pertinent practice experience already and/or 2) connections. Certainly there can be some entry level stuff, but it seemed that generally they followed the typical government thing of trying to hire experienced people.

That said, I’d hit up every alum from your school that you can find in the NYC law department and get as much information from them as you can - that will be much more practical and helpful than likely most responses you’ll get here.

Yeah, I hear this (and definitely plan to talk to alumni who work at the NYC law department)--but would my clerkship potentially help? I think a clerkship is arguably a public service job that would provide some insight into working in government, and basically counts as a year of experience, right?

[Pomeranian]

Anecdotally, NYC's government has a blanket hiring freeze right now due to the budget shortfall caused by COVID-19. Congress is debating state and local funding in the next stimulus bill, so this may change things, but who knows?
In addition to the Law Department, you can also look at the various city agencies, many of which have their own legal departments.

[nixy]

I can’t give a lot of specific advice, but it seems to me that trying to jump both to public service and to an entirely different market is going to be a bit of an issue. It makes sense for biglaw people to want to be in NYC as it’s the center of that universe, but I don’t think you can say the same for city/local government, so you may have to have a more compelling explanation.

In the smaller settings than NYC that I’m familiar with. city/local government jobs largely seemed to go to people who 1) had pertinent practice experience already and/or 2) connections. Certainly there can be some entry level stuff, but it seemed that generally they followed the typical government thing of trying to hire experienced people.

That said, I’d hit up every alum from your school that you can find in the NYC law department and get as much information from them as you can - that will be much more practical and helpful than likely most responses you’ll get here.

Yeah, I hear this (and definitely plan to talk to alumni who work at the NYC law department)--but would my clerkship potentially help? I think a clerkship is arguably a public service job that would provide some insight into working in government, and basically counts as a year of experience, right?

The clerkship is great, and certainly helps more than not having a clerkship, and counts as a year of experience for things like salary purposes. But it's not practice experience, it's federal law not state (obviously federal law isn't totally irrelevant but NY state law will be huge), and I mean more like 3-7 years' experience, not 1.

[Anonymous User]

I work for the City in an agency’s counsels office (but I work closely with the Law Dept as well). There is a hiring freeze but agencies are still hiring to backfill vacancies.

I have really enjoyed my time here. I hated Big Law. Not for the hours but the billing process and the culture. Comparatively, the lifestyle at city gvmt is great, and there are a lot of good benefits too. There’s still a pension even though Tier 6 isn’t as great as what was offered before.

When it comes to work, that’ll depend on your agency and your GC. I love the type of work I fell into (started here at a very low position after leaving big law and have climbed my way up) and I love my boss. The hardest part of city gvmt work is dealing with administration changes. I was here under Bloomberg and it was very different than under deblasio.

Law Dept is also a great place, though depending on your division it can have limited exit options. Torts and Family Law work some crazy hours. It’ll also be easiest to get a job in those divisions though and you can always apply to move to another division later.

Overall very happy with my career here and while things are incredibly difficult for the City right now, I feel hopeful about being part of our rebuilding.

[istan]

While you may not be interested in big law, you should still apply to big law positions in NYC. Even a year or 2 at Big law will give you a nice salary and a lot of government jobs want prior experience which you may satisfy with your clerkship, but I would also seek out big law.

Yeah, but it's more than a lack of interest in the work big firms do (though that is part of it, and I would much rather feel like I'm working for the public's benefit)--it's that I'm not okay with the huge sacrifices of time and autonomy that big firms in NYC require. I want to avoid regularly working 60-hour weeks and getting calls about urgent projects on weekends, and I think a gov job is more accommodating in that way. That's why the pay cut is worth it to me.

[istan]

I work for the City in an agency’s counsels office (but I work closely with the Law Dept as well). There is a hiring freeze but agencies are still hiring to backfill vacancies.

I have really enjoyed my time here. I hated Big Law. Not for the hours but the billing process and the culture. Comparatively, the lifestyle at city gvmt is great, and there are a lot of good benefits too. There’s still a pension even though Tier 6 isn’t as great as what was offered before.

When it comes to work, that’ll depend on your agency and your GC. I love the type of work I fell into (started here at a very low position after leaving big law and have climbed my way up) and I love my boss. The hardest part of city gvmt work is dealing with administration changes. I was here under Bloomberg and it was very different than under deblasio.

Law Dept is also a great place, though depending on your division it can have limited exit options. Torts and Family Law work some crazy hours. It’ll also be easiest to get a job in those divisions though and you can always apply to move to another division later.

Overall very happy with my career here and while things are incredibly difficult for the City right now, I feel hopeful about being part of our rebuilding.

This is great to hear! Do you have any advice on whether I need experience (e.g. at a firm) before applying to a city job after my clerkship? Or are there opportunities for recent grads?

[Anonymous User]

This is great to hear! Do you have any advice on whether I need experience (e.g. at a firm) before applying to a city job after my clerkship? Or are there opportunities for recent grads?

There are definitely entry level positions. I’ve hired 2 straight out of law school attorneys during my time here. And your clerkship will be treated as one year experience when it comes to starting salary. Which will still be quite low - don’t get shell shocked by that because you can move up pretty quickly at agencies. The Law Dept is fairly lockstep for Assistant Corporation Counsel levels, but agencies have more discretion.

You can search the city website for current openings to get an idea of what they look for and figure out what you might be interested in. If you want courtroom time, I would focus on the Law Dept. But otherwise, each agency will have their own unique legal work. Attorneys at DOMHM will deal more with healthcare law, DCAS more with privacy law and cyber security, DOF with financial transactions. There are also various public authorities, the Comptrollers Office and elected officials who all have legal teams. Lots of options! And if you’re not applying for another year, hopefully the hiring freeze will be over and we will be in better fiscal shape.

[istan]

This is great to hear! Do you have any advice on whether I need experience (e.g. at a firm) before applying to a city job after my clerkship? Or are there opportunities for recent grads?

There are definitely entry level positions. I’ve hired 2 straight out of law school attorneys during my time here. And your clerkship will be treated as one year experience when it comes to starting salary. Which will still be quite low - don’t get shell shocked by that because you can move up pretty quickly at agencies. The Law Dept is fairly lockstep for Assistant Corporation Counsel levels, but agencies have more discretion.

You can search the city website for current openings to get an idea of what they look for and figure out what you might be interested in. If you want courtroom time, I would focus on the Law Dept. But otherwise, each agency will have their own unique legal work. Attorneys at DOMHM will deal more with healthcare law, DCAS more with privacy law and cyber security, DOF with financial transactions. There are also various public authorities, the Comptrollers Office and elected officials who all have legal teams. Lots of options! And if you’re not applying for another year, hopefully the hiring freeze will be over and we will be in better fiscal shape.

Awesome, thanks. Any insight into whether it would matter that I don't have previous connections to NYC? Would I be better off applying to these jobs after living and working in the city for a year or so, or is it normal to recruit people from elsewhere?

[Anonymous User]

You don’t really need ties to NYC - it’s such a popular destination for young professionals, no one questions why anyone would want to come here. Even now, with things as they are. What you’ll need more is a showing of commitment to the public sector and interest in civic work. Your clerkship should help with that.

[Anonymous User]

I can give you firsthand feedback on what it is like working at the Office of Corporation Counsel. First, if you want to be a litigator—in the courtroom—within your first year out of law school (or in your case out of your clerkship) then the NYC Law Dept. is one of the best kept secrets within New York City.

Specifically, if you want early federal court experience—try getting into one of the more elite units within Corp. Counsel. The only government legal offices in NYC where junior litigators serve as LEAD attorneys on major cases valued at $2 million and above are (i) Assistant Corporation Counsels or (ii) Assistant U.S. Attorneys. In some divisions of Corp Counsel, there are first year attorneys that are getting admitted to state court and immediately appearing pro hac vice in federal court with their supervisors serving as lead attorneys until they are admitted (it use to take 1 - 2 months b/t getting state admitted and applying/being approved for federal…but its been a while obviously since I went through the process.)


If you are lucky to work in one of the units that does federal litigation—some of them have complex class actions where the outcomes will fundamentally change how the city operates as a whole. Junior attorneys are OFTEN paired with more senior attorneys and appear on the docket as co-counsel in these major class actions. To have this on your resume within the first 3-4 years of law school is almost unheard of—especially in New York City.

ACCs (nicknames for attorneys) go on to have stellar careers doing all kinds of jobs after they leave the law department. If you look at some of the sitting federal and state judges you will see that many started their careers as ACCs in Corp. Counsel. Its a great training ground for young attorneys to get practical experience and learn how to litigate. The work you do can be extremely challenging and yet rewarding.

Hiring: The City of New York is on a hiring freeze…HOWEVER, you should always consult recruitment . In my experience, I will FREQUENTLY hear one thing about hiring/raises/promotions etc. and then the New York Times will break an article where I learn something different. (No joke…the NYT usually beats our HR team in announcing breaking news.) So with that said, reach out to recruitment and be intentional about following up.

Connection to NYC: not necessary. You just need to prove a dedication to public service through a thorough cover letter, proven research on the agency, and diligent efforts to get hired. I cannot stress enough how important it is to LEARN ABOUT THE DIFFERENT DIVISIONS before accepting the first placement Corp Counsel offers. The divisions do very different work and transferring between divisions is possible …BUT it usually takes 1.5-2 years before you are eligible to move between units.

Agencies: As an initial matter, corp. counsel is the only agency that appears in federal court on behalf of the city or any of its agencies (with maybe a few exceptions a year). If your goal is to be the attorney in a courtroom doing jury trials and/or negotiating settlements—you work at Corporation Counsel (the law department). Others have mentioned interesting work done at the agency….however, the agencies are the CLIENTS of corporation counsel. So…. Corp. Counsel is the agency that actually goes into court and represents the agencies (DOHMH, NYPD, Dept. Corrections, Dept. Education, etc.). Therefore, if you apply to an AGENCY…..you will be providing litigation support to Corp. Counsel. You do not go to Court on their cases, your name does not appear on the docket, and you are not involved in settlement negotiations. An agency attorney oftentimes participate in phone calls where they provide logistical support (gathering documents, arranging witnesses, following-up on affidavits, etc.) Some agencies do administrative trial work where they do serve as lead attorneys—however, this work is limited in scope and (9/10) only in state court and/or administrative tribunals.

With that said....now is a difficult time to be working at the agency. There is reduced staffing, limited resources, an increased caseload, and frozen salaries. BUT.... As a junior lawyer, I came to New York City to be trained to be one of the best trial lawyers and argue in some of the oldest/most prestigious courts in the country. I won trials, lost trials, gained more experience than 99% of my law school classmates, and have gained the respect of judges, partners at firms, and professors whom I've met along the way.

Just like anything else in this town--you move to NYC with a dream and how that materializes is completely up to you.