Stressed that I might lose offer due to 3L Grades Forum

[Anonymous User]

How worried should I be about losing my offer at a V20 due to a slip in 3L grades? My evidence class has been a complete shit show this semester, and it's starting to look like I'm probably going to end up with C, C+, or B-. My lowest grade up until this point was a B+. Am I at serious risk of having my offer rescinded? I'm pretty freaking stressed at the moment about this.

I looked at my offer letter and it does say that I need to provide a transcript after receiving my last semester grades for "proof of graduation and enrollment." One glimmer of hope is that over the summer, one of the partners on the hiring committee mentioned that he couldn't care less about 3L grades.

[LS989]

How worried should I be about losing my offer at a V20 due to a slip in 3L grades? My evidence class has been a complete shit show this semester, and it's starting to look like I'm probably going to end up with C, C+, or B-. My lowest grade up until this point was a B+. Am I at serious risk of having my offer rescinded? I'm pretty freaking stressed at the moment about this.

I looked at my offer letter and it does say that I need to provide a transcript after receiving my last semester grades for "proof of graduation and enrollment." One glimmer of hope is that over the summer, one of the partners on the hiring committee mentioned that he couldn't care less about 3L grades.

First off, from everything I've heard, no. If a partner on the hiring committee told you that, just dont fail.
Secondly, can you just take it pass fail? I know a lot of schools are providing lenient P/F options due to covid and remote learning.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for replying. That's definitely reassuring to hear that I shouldn't be overly stressed about losing my offer. I hope that the partner genuinely meant it when he said that — yeah, he essentially said just don't fail any classes.

I met with one of the Deans and they essentially told me that I could take an incomplete, but that's about it . . . which obviously doesn't do me any good as a 3L since I need the units to graduate and can't fit an additional 4 units into my last semester.

[nixy]

Also, unless your evidence class has a series of graded assignments over the course of the semester that all count, you can't know what grade you're going to get yet (if you do have such assignments, ignore me, but that's not very common).

[Anonymous User]

Also, unless your evidence class has a series of graded assignments over the course of the semester that all count, you can't know what grade you're going to get yet (if you do have such assignments, ignore me, but that's not very common).

We have a midterm, participation points, and a final — the syllabus lists out the total available points for the course and specifies how many points everything is worth. For some god foresaken reason, my professor has decided not to use a curve for this semester (only 1L courses have to follow the mandatory curve), so I'm basing my final grade on how I performed on the midterm.

[blair.waldorf]

How do you manage a C outside of extraordinary circumstances? I thought you had to actively not do anything to get a C at a good law school.

[Anonymous User]

How do you manage a C outside of extraordinary circumstances? I thought you had to actively not do anything to get a C at a good law school.

Professor is a dick and has decided that he's not going to curve the class. This is at a T20.

[Definitely Not North]

How do you manage a C outside of extraordinary circumstances? I thought you had to actively not do anything to get a C at a good law school.

Making the mistake of taking a combo Biglaw lit/BigGov gunner class filled with 1Ls during a recession as a 3L is the extraordinary circumstance i think

[Definitely Not North]

Also I did the same thing with Crim Pro during 3L spring like an idiot and got a C+. My biglaw offer did not get rescinded

[Anonymous User]

How do you manage a C outside of extraordinary circumstances? I thought you had to actively not do anything to get a C at a good law school.

Making the mistake of taking a combo Biglaw lit/BigGov gunner class filled with 1Ls during a recession as a 3L is the extraordinary circumstance i think

Yup. Filled with 2L gunners. I'm one of a handful of 3Ls, and it was a huge mistake. Did your firm say anything about the C+?

[bwh8813]

Also, unless your evidence class has a series of graded assignments over the course of the semester that all count, you can't know what grade you're going to get yet (if you do have such assignments, ignore me, but that's not very common).

This was my thought as well. If it's that you're not getting the material the way it's being taught, just get a supplement and study based off that. My Property class was a disaster because the prof was a nightmare, so I did the reading, tried to stay as tuned in during class as possible, but mostly studied off old exams and a supplement. Ended up with an A.

But, as others said, your offer is not in jeopardy (at least in normal times). The final transcript is just for recruiting to check a box.

[Dahl]

Unless the firm is looking for an excuse to not bring you on, no one will care at all. Don’t stress. You’ll send your final transcript to the HR/recruiter. No one else is going to see it.

[gasfard]

Had a couple of C+ in my 3L and still here at my V25, don't worry

[nixy]

How do you manage a C outside of extraordinary circumstances? I thought you had to actively not do anything to get a C at a good law school.

Making the mistake of taking a combo Biglaw lit/BigGov gunner class filled with 1Ls during a recession as a 3L is the extraordinary circumstance i think

Depending where the OP goes
to school, this may not be be the case. My school required all students to take evidence, so it wasn’t a gunner class, and didn’t do 1L electives. So evidence wasn’t worse than any other black letter law class.

[goldenflash19]

Unless your firm is an outlier, they would care even during a normal year. It is especially likely that no one is going to care now when your grade is based on one exam after a semester of Zoom classes.

[Anonymous User]

Had a friend at a T25 outright fail--as in, actually got an F--and retook to get a C+. She didn't lose her offer at a V30; the firm only cared that she graduated on time.

[jacketyellow]

Some law firms at the very tippy top of the Vault or Amlaw lists may rescind based on that. But most firms won't even care and won't even see your transcript.

[Definitely Not North]

Some law firms at the very tippy top of the Vault or Amlaw lists may rescind based on that. But most firms won't even care and won't even see your transcript.

Got anything to back this up because I don’t think you do

[Anonymous User]

Someone in my starting class got straight Cs 3L year, ended up with a 3.2 at a V15 that swears they have a hard cutoff of 3.6. I don't think anyone even looked at his transcript, he says no one talked to him about it (wouldn't put it past him to lie about it though).

[Anonymous User]

At my notoriously grades-focused firm, I've literally never heard of anyone not being allowed back because of poor 3L grades (and I definitely know people who let their grades drop).

Having said that, unless your professor is teaching some kind of abstract version of Evidence that publicly available materials wouldn't be helpful for, you can almost certainly avoid this problem altogether. There are tons of Evidence flashcard decks on the various flashcard apps, many of them free, and there are loads of Evidence-related bar prep materials, practice quizzes, supplements, etc. out there. Similar to Tax, Evidence is actually pretty learnable, the volume of the material just makes it feel super overwhelming.

[***0123L]

Hi! First of all, I really, really wouldn't be worried about getting your offer recinded. If that's even possible, it would take much more than one C.

[Feel free to ignore this part if you don't want advice about the class itself.] That said, evidence has a wealth of study aids I can personally attest to and I don't think you have to resign yourself to a C+. I'd start with listening to the Steven Goode evidence tapes and taking notes. They should give you a great base. Then the evidence E&E is very good. The E&E is on the short side and the tapes are probably only about 7-8 hours, so you can get through those easily with just a few hours a week. Lastly, there are several multiple choice books (especially great if you have any MC questions, but helpful anyways because evidence is rule focused and doing MC questions helps drill rules.) Many of these are on westlaw study aids you probably have access to for free, if not you can get an E&E that's a version or two old.

[HamlinMcgill]

I think you'll be glad you took evidence when you're studying for the bar. Just study and do your best. Even if you do poorly, as others have said, the chances of a firm rescinding an offer over a single grade are pretty low. If they want to hire you, that means they have a job they need to fill. They're not going to put themselves in a jam just to punish someone for one subpar grade.