Capital Markets QOL (CA vs NYC) Forum

[Anonymous User]

I’m curious - can anyone speak to quality of life/hours differences for corporate associates based in NYC vs. SF/Silicon Valley. Would be great if anyone could speak to capital markets type work. Understanding this maybe be firm specific, I’m wondering if CA capital markets group expect associates to bill 250+ hours every month or if this is more of an NYC standard?

[Anonymous User]

Having worked in CA (M&A, not cap markets), I found the biggest difference was the amount of facetime. I haven't worked in NY, but from what I hear there's a heavier facetime requirement in the evening hours, whereas most people I knew at my firm and others in town were generally heading home around 5-7 and logging back on at night.

Obviously, you could still end up working for a partner that requires FT, and as far as 250+ months that's probably just dependent on the firm and whether they have that much work. I don't think 250 is expected anywhere that doesn't have the work to support it (which many places don't).

[Anonymous User]

This is based on a few colleagues who used to do Capital Markets in New York. Mind you, they all left because they thought the workplace was too intense and demanding, and from the stories, most associates don't survive for more than three years, so perhaps this is an issue at that specific office. This could also point to understaffing problems, and associates getting burned out because they have to do the work of multiple associates. So again, this might only be this office.

They said NY was really intense. Weekends were generally to be spent working. Partners were very demanding. Any second of your day, at any point in the week was fair game, without any notice. There also seemed to be a strong culture of being late, purely for the sake of appearing available and looking like you want to do more, instead of taking any work home or leaving early because you had an easy day. I didn't ask about the hours they were hitting, but it definitely sounded like 250+.

[Anonymous User]

I’ve always been at CA firms so I’m not going to try to compare the environment against NY firms since I don’t have firsthand experience in NY. But what I will say is that apart from the firm environment, time zones are a very relevant consideration in capital markets, probably even more so than in M&A.

You are going to be working long hours anywhere, but in CA you are mostly going to have very early mornings vs mostly very late nights in NY. So if you are very much an early bird or a night owl, factor that in to your decision. Of course, I have pulled the occasional all nighter in CA on capital markets deals, but it is much more often that I’m waking up at 4:30am than not getting to bed until 2:30am.

Edit: With respect to your hours question, I am not pure capital markets. I also do M&A and VC financings, but 250 hour months are pretty unusual for me. I’ve probably only hit 250 four or five times over the past five years and only hit 300 once. 200+ hour months are pretty typical, although I probably average between 180-190.

[Anonymous User]

This is based on a few colleagues who used to do Capital Markets in New York. Mind you, they all left because they thought the workplace was too intense and demanding, and from the stories, most associates don't survive for more than three years, so perhaps this is an issue at that specific office. This could also point to understaffing problems, and associates getting burned out because they have to do the work of multiple associates. So again, this might only be this office.

They said NY was really intense. Weekends were generally to be spent working. Partners were very demanding. Any second of your day, at any point in the week was fair game, without any notice. There also seemed to be a strong culture of being late, purely for the sake of appearing available and looking like you want to do more, instead of taking any work home or leaving early because you had an easy day. I didn't ask about the hours they were hitting, but it definitely sounded like 250+.

NY V5 Cap markets associate here. There are currently four homegrown associates north of third year in the whole group, and none north of 6th year. Every senior associate is a lateral because the homegrown folks burned out. Everyone I know who was 5th year and below was looking before COVID (but staying put now for job security), and certainly more than 75% of my class year (fifth year) has moved on to inhouse or lower ranked firms doing more generalist work. Above is basically accurate.

[Anonymous User]

I’ve always been at CA firms so I’m not going to try to compare the environment against NY firms since I don’t have firsthand experience in NY. But what I will say is that apart from the firm environment, time zones are a very relevant consideration in capital markets, probably even more so than in M&A.

As someone who's done it on both coasts, adding that the time zone matters for QOL purposes more than you think (especially if you also do 34 Act work), unless you're one of those obsessed-with-hiking, granola-eating, 4am-pacific-waking types.