Fall bonuses

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nahumya

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Fall bonuses

Post by nahumya » Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:43 pm


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4LTsPointingNorth

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Re: Fall bonuses

Post by 4LTsPointingNorth » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:08 pm

Domestic associates in good standing will be receiving special Fall bonuses in recognition of their hard work
Is there any consensus on what "in good standing" generally means at firms, particularly ones without published hours requirements? Are associate made aware that they are not in good standing?

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nahumya

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Re: Fall bonuses

Post by nahumya » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:14 pm

4LTsPointingNorth wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:08 pm
Domestic associates in good standing will be receiving special Fall bonuses in recognition of their hard work
Is there any consensus on what "in good standing" generally means at firms, particularly ones without published hours requirements? Are associate made aware that they are not in good standing?
I'm guessing this is meant to exclude those associates who were given 3 months to find a new firm.

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Re: Fall bonuses

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:54 pm

Any other news? Havent heard anything from PW.

MillllerTime

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Re: Fall bonuses

Post by MillllerTime » Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:54 pm
Any other news? Havent heard anything from PW.
I have a feeling it will be a few days and I wouldn't panic if no matches this week. Pre-Covid the top firms had approval from their committees to match whatever a set list of competitors (which would obviously include DPW for the top places) threw out there. I doubt that pre-approval is likely to still be open, so committees are going to have to discuss next Monday or whenever they meet. But just because it's not automatic doesn't mean it won't happen.

Cravaths and other heavy hitters like Milbank will match or even go over the top (we can dream). Nationwide places like K&E and Latham that are doing just fine in 2020 can't be the ones who don't play along and all of the sudden this is widespread among the top ~20 or so firms by PPP / RPL.

Nobody can write off DPW like those clowns at Gunderson or Cooley. Congratulations friends, we've made it. Buy your kid some potatoes.

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Re: Fall bonuses

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:54 pm
Any other news? Havent heard anything from PW.
Anecdotally some PW partners in my group dont think it’s necessary to match but agree with others that ultimately the firm will have to once our other peers follow suit. Just need 1-2 to start the dominoes

collegewriter

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Re: Fall bonuses

Post by collegewriter » Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:54 pm

MillllerTime wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:36 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:54 pm
Any other news? Havent heard anything from PW.
I have a feeling it will be a few days and I wouldn't panic if no matches this week. Pre-Covid the top firms had approval from their committees to match whatever a set list of competitors (which would obviously include DPW for the top places) threw out there. I doubt that pre-approval is likely to still be open, so committees are going to have to discuss next Monday or whenever they meet. But just because it's not automatic doesn't mean it won't happen.

Cravaths and other heavy hitters like Milbank will match or even go over the top (we can dream). Nationwide places like K&E and Latham that are doing just fine in 2020 can't be the ones who don't play along and all of the sudden this is widespread among the top ~20 or so firms by PPP / RPL.

Nobody can write off DPW like those clowns at Gunderson or Cooley. Congratulations friends, we've made it. Buy your kid some potatoes.
I do wonder how this will be handled by firms with high RPL but low vault rankings (like Dechert, Schulte, Cahill). Does this further stratify the rankings? Or do lower ranked firms try to catch up by playing with the big boys?

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DoveBodyWash

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Re: Fall bonuses

Post by DoveBodyWash » Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:57 pm

I don’t see how Weil doesn’t match given the hours over there since the pandemic. Have to imagine they’re having retention issues at least in Bk and the supporting groups

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Re: Fall bonuses

Post by Pulsar » Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:08 pm

I'd expect there will be a lot of stratification on this, with some high-revenue firms matching outright, some firms matching but imposing hours requirements, and many firms not matching at all.

Total comp for a fifth-year associate is hitting $280k (base) + 32,500 (fall) + 80,000 (expected end-year) = $392,500. That is kinda insane. The great majority of V100 firms are not going to be able to afford it.

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Re: Fall bonuses

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:11 pm

Pulsar wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:08 pm
I'd expect there will be a lot of stratification on this, with some high-revenue firms matching outright, some firms matching but imposing hours requirements, and many firms not matching at all.

Total comp for a fifth-year associate is hitting $280k (base) + 32,500 (fall) + 80,000 (expected end-year) = $392,500. That is kinda insane. The great majority of V100 firms are not going to be able to afford it.
I would agree. I’m at a lower v100 and I don’t think anyone expects an outright match. Firms are already down in revenue. This will certainly be tied to hours or tiered in some way.

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nahumya

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Re: Fall bonuses

Post by nahumya » Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:56 pm

Pulsar wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:08 pm
I'd expect there will be a lot of stratification on this, with some high-revenue firms matching outright, some firms matching but imposing hours requirements, and many firms not matching at all.

Total comp for a fifth-year associate is hitting $280k (base) + 32,500 (fall) + 80,000 (expected end-year) = $392,500. That is kinda insane. The great majority of V100 firms are not going to be able to afford it.
If this fifth-year bills 2000 hours at, say, $650/hour, that's $1.3m/year for the firm. Sure, you have to subtract realization and overhead, but there is plenty left over to give this associate $400k. The comp is all relative to how much money lawyers generate, which makes it less insane.

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Re: Fall bonuses

Post by Ultramar vistas » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:15 am

nahumya wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:56 pm
Pulsar wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:08 pm
I'd expect there will be a lot of stratification on this, with some high-revenue firms matching outright, some firms matching but imposing hours requirements, and many firms not matching at all.

Total comp for a fifth-year associate is hitting $280k (base) + 32,500 (fall) + 80,000 (expected end-year) = $392,500. That is kinda insane. The great majority of V100 firms are not going to be able to afford it.
If this fifth-year bills 2000 hours at, say, $650/hour, that's $1.3m/year for the firm. Sure, you have to subtract realization and overhead, but there is plenty left over to give this associate $400k. The comp is all relative to how much money lawyers generate, which makes it less insane.
Agreed and let’s be real, at the firms that are considering matching this, 5th years aren’t billed out at $650 anymore. Closer to $1000.

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Re: Fall bonuses

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:49 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:11 pm
Pulsar wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:08 pm
I'd expect there will be a lot of stratification on this, with some high-revenue firms matching outright, some firms matching but imposing hours requirements, and many firms not matching at all.

Total comp for a fifth-year associate is hitting $280k (base) + 32,500 (fall) + 80,000 (expected end-year) = $392,500. That is kinda insane. The great majority of V100 firms are not going to be able to afford it.
I would agree. I’m at a lower v100 and I don’t think anyone expects an outright match. Firms are already down in revenue. This will certainly be tied to hours or tiered in some way.
At a >V50 firm and would be surprised if no match. Firm has touted revenue and being generally up-and-to-the-right y/y. Associate compensation is increasing commensurately with the increase in revenue and proportionate decrease in equity holders.

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Re: Fall bonuses

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:04 am

Ultramar vistas wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:15 am
nahumya wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:56 pm
Pulsar wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:08 pm
I'd expect there will be a lot of stratification on this, with some high-revenue firms matching outright, some firms matching but imposing hours requirements, and many firms not matching at all.

Total comp for a fifth-year associate is hitting $280k (base) + 32,500 (fall) + 80,000 (expected end-year) = $392,500. That is kinda insane. The great majority of V100 firms are not going to be able to afford it.
If this fifth-year bills 2000 hours at, say, $650/hour, that's $1.3m/year for the firm. Sure, you have to subtract realization and overhead, but there is plenty left over to give this associate $400k. The comp is all relative to how much money lawyers generate, which makes it less insane.
Agreed and let’s be real, at the firms that are considering matching this, 5th years aren’t billed out at $650 anymore. Closer to $1000.

Yeah rates have gone way up. I’m a 4th year billing at $900+/hr, which is insane and will pull in $2.5mm revenue for the firm this year annualized. They can cough up $400k in exchange for literally every single one of my waking moments

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Re: Fall bonuses

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:05 am

Ultramar vistas wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:15 am
nahumya wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:56 pm
Pulsar wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:08 pm
I'd expect there will be a lot of stratification on this, with some high-revenue firms matching outright, some firms matching but imposing hours requirements, and many firms not matching at all.

Total comp for a fifth-year associate is hitting $280k (base) + 32,500 (fall) + 80,000 (expected end-year) = $392,500. That is kinda insane. The great majority of V100 firms are not going to be able to afford it.
If this fifth-year bills 2000 hours at, say, $650/hour, that's $1.3m/year for the firm. Sure, you have to subtract realization and overhead, but there is plenty left over to give this associate $400k. The comp is all relative to how much money lawyers generate, which makes it less insane.
Agreed and let’s be real, at the firms that are considering matching this, 5th years aren’t billed out at $650 anymore. Closer to $1000.
Yes, I'm a 5th year and billed out at exactly $1000. So $2m for 2000 hours. Insane.

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Re: Fall bonuses

Post by PMan99 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:09 am

It’s worth noting that most attorneys aren’t billing out at their rack rate - probably something more like 80% of advertised rate and, of that, 80% is collected, even for good attorneys at top firms.

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Re: Fall bonuses

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:58 am

nahumya wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:43 pm
Looks like fall bonuses might be coming:

https://abovethelaw.com/2020/09/wow-dav ... n-bonuses/
https://abovethelaw.com/2020/09/cooley-bonuses/
I mean we say firms that “match” but a lot of firms have not even completely rolled back pay cuts... so I may get another make hole payment but it is really the have abs have nots.

Just to note, firms with large bankruptcy practices are getting the rack rate for in court repesentations.

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Re: Fall bonuses

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:37 am

In scenarios like this do firms like Cooley come around to meeting the market? Seems bad for morale.

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parkslope

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Re: Fall bonuses

Post by parkslope » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:52 am

PMan99 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:09 am
It’s worth noting that most attorneys aren’t billing out at their rack rate - probably something more like 80% of advertised rate and, of that, 80% is collected, even for good attorneys at top firms.
Revenue per lawyer is a pretty good estimate: https://www.statista.com/statistics/878 ... ed-states/

Davis Polk revenue per lawyer is $1.48 million, and that is realized revenue, not notional billing rate.

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Re: Fall bonuses

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:55 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:51 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:54 pm
Any other news? Havent heard anything from PW.
Anecdotally some PW partners in my group dont think it’s necessary to match but agree with others that ultimately the firm will have to once our other peers follow suit. Just need 1-2 to start the dominoes
I’m a PW 5th year. How are you talking about bonuses with partners? Some partners have told you they don’t think its necessary to match compensation? Sounds pretty tacky.

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Re: Fall bonuses

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:00 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:55 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:51 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:54 pm
Any other news? Havent heard anything from PW.
Anecdotally some PW partners in my group dont think it’s necessary to match but agree with others that ultimately the firm will have to once our other peers follow suit. Just need 1-2 to start the dominoes
I’m a PW 5th year. How are you talking about bonuses with partners? Some partners have told you they don’t think its necessary to match compensation? Sounds pretty tacky.
Didn't have the conversation directly but another senior took a shot and asked the question. Agree the comment is tacky lol

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DoveBodyWash

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Re: Fall bonuses

Post by DoveBodyWash » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:14 am

My money is that either Simpson or Milbank match first. Cravath goes 3rd once it's clear no one is beating it.

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Re: Fall bonuses

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:30 pm

collegewriter wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:54 pm
I do wonder how this will be handled by firms with high RPL but low vault rankings (like Dechert, Schulte, Cahill). Does this further stratify the rankings? Or do lower ranked firms try to catch up by playing with the big boys?
I think they have to match if V20 matches, though likely with hours requirements.

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nahumya

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Re: Fall bonuses

Post by nahumya » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:33 pm

DoveBodyWash wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:14 am
My money is that either Simpson or Milbank match first. Cravath goes 3rd once it's clear no one is beating it.
Milbank it is.

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Re: Fall bonuses

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:36 pm

nahumya wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:33 pm
DoveBodyWash wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:14 am
My money is that either Simpson or Milbank match first. Cravath goes 3rd once it's clear no one is beating it.
Milbank it is.
From other thread -- let's be clear, Milbank is leading.
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:13 pm
Milbank here - the above anon failed to point out that if your utilization is above 110% then you get 1.5x DPW scale

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

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