How far out can I go?

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proudgunner

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How far out can I go?

Post by proudgunner » Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:47 pm

Hi, all. I am at a T2 in a very small area in the top ten percent of my class. No real major cities close by. The closest one is probably Chicago (4 hours). How far out can I go from where I am at now without really needing ties? With the job market as scarce as it is, I will really work anywhere, but I know that employers don't really buy that. I have been mass mailing and have sent out about 50 emails to every firm imaginable within 3 hours. I just feel like there aren't a lot around here. Any advice?

nixy

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Re: How far out can I go?

Post by nixy » Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:22 pm

Apply to NYC.

proudgunner

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Re: How far out can I go?

Post by proudgunner » Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:26 pm

nixy wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:22 pm
Apply to NYC.
Any place you recommend starting? I'm still going to try, but what do you think my chances are? I never really dreamed I'd be able to end up there.

TigerIsBack

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Re: How far out can I go?

Post by TigerIsBack » Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:34 am

proudgunner wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:47 pm
Hi, all. I am at a T2 in a very small area in the top ten percent of my class. No real major cities close by. The closest one is probably Chicago (4 hours). How far out can I go from where I am at now without really needing ties? With the job market as scarce as it is, I will really work anywhere, but I know that employers don't really buy that. I have been mass mailing and have sent out about 50 emails to every firm imaginable within 3 hours. I just feel like there aren't a lot around here. Any advice?
One clarification: it's not so much that employers don't "buy" that you're willing to work anywhere. It's more that in most secondary markets, if you don't have ties, they assume (often rightfully so) that once they've invested time and money into training you for 1-3 years, you'll leave and go back to somewhere where you have ties. That's not usually worth the investment/risk for the firm, when there are other candidates with ties.

That applies less so in major markets (and basically doesn't apply at all in NYC), because the large firms will churn and burn, so even if they only get 1 year out of you, usually they'll have made some money off of you in that time.

So to answer your question, if Chicago is the closest major city, it's very reasonable to apply there and say you want to do sophisticated work and this is the closest/best city in the world, blah, blah, blah, and then apply to any firm you can find recruiter contact info for in NYC (even if a job opening isn't listed). Also try other major cities if there's any you have any remote ties to. I started out of law school in a major city where I had effectively zero ties and just sold it as "I've always wanted to live/work here", but focus first on (1) Chi/NYC, (2) major markets with remote ties, (3) all other markets.

nixy

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Re: How far out can I go?

Post by nixy » Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:07 am

proudgunner wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:26 pm
nixy wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:22 pm
Apply to NYC.
Any place you recommend starting? I'm still going to try, but what do you think my chances are? I never really dreamed I'd be able to end up there.
I can't be any help on the details, but NYC is the least ties-conscious market there is and hires a ton of lawyers, so it's definitely worth applying there. It's an easier market than most smaller cities that want ties and have fewer slots. I would look for any alumni from your school in NYC and hit them up for advice but yeah, apply to any NYC firm you can find (try Vault and/or the AmLaw100 for listings of firms).

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UnfrozenCaveman

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Re: How far out can I go?

Post by UnfrozenCaveman » Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:28 am

What year are you?

NYC is a good bet simply because it's a numbers game, but it if it's a school they don't normally see and you don't have some sort of in, it could be tough. Work your undergrad a law school network no matter how slim it is.

proudgunner

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Re: How far out can I go?

Post by proudgunner » Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:36 am

UnfrozenCaveman wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:28 am
What year are you?

NYC is a good bet simply because it's a numbers game, but it if it's a school they don't normally see and you don't have some sort of in, it could be tough. Work your undergrad a law school network no matter how slim it is.
2L

nixy

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Re: How far out can I go?

Post by nixy » Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:49 am

Yeah, I don’t mean that NYC is guaranteed, and whatever major metro your school feeds to most often is your best bet (it sounds like Chicago maybe), but of random cities you don’t have ties to, NYC is likely easier to crack than smaller cities.

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nealric

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Re: How far out can I go?

Post by nealric » Fri Aug 28, 2020 10:15 am

nixy wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:07 am
proudgunner wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:26 pm
nixy wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:22 pm
Apply to NYC.
Any place you recommend starting? I'm still going to try, but what do you think my chances are? I never really dreamed I'd be able to end up there.
I can't be any help on the details, but NYC is the least ties-conscious market there is and hires a ton of lawyers, so it's definitely worth applying there. It's an easier market than most smaller cities that want ties and have fewer slots. I would look for any alumni from your school in NYC and hit them up for advice but yeah, apply to any NYC firm you can find (try Vault and/or the AmLaw100 for listings of firms).
Of course people do that in NYC, but the difference is that firms build their business model around the assumption of high turnover in the junior and midlevel ranks.

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nixy

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Re: How far out can I go?

Post by nixy » Fri Aug 28, 2020 10:32 am

? (Just want to understand if I said something inaccurate.)

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nealric

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Re: How far out can I go?

Post by nealric » Fri Aug 28, 2020 10:40 am

nixy wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 10:32 am
? (Just want to understand if I said something inaccurate.)
I was agreeing with you.

proudgunner

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Re: How far out can I go?

Post by proudgunner » Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:15 am

nealric wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 10:15 am
nixy wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:07 am
proudgunner wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:26 pm
nixy wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:22 pm
Apply to NYC.
Any place you recommend starting? I'm still going to try, but what do you think my chances are? I never really dreamed I'd be able to end up there.
I can't be any help on the details, but NYC is the least ties-conscious market there is and hires a ton of lawyers, so it's definitely worth applying there. It's an easier market than most smaller cities that want ties and have fewer slots. I would look for any alumni from your school in NYC and hit them up for advice but yeah, apply to any NYC firm you can find (try Vault and/or the AmLaw100 for listings of firms).
Of course people do that in NYC, but the difference is that firms build their business model around the assumption of high turnover in the junior and midlevel ranks.
And just to clarify -- are you guys talking about doing informational interviews with partners in the relevant practice group? Or are you talking about just cold applying?

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