Cravath vs Watchell Forum

[Anonymous User]

It's unclear to me what OP wants to do in their career - that is always the first place to start with this type of question.

If you want to focus on M&A, buyout deals, etc. go for WLRK. Same with their litigation - my impression is that a lot of the lit there is the fast-moving Delaware stuff.

CSM is for the generalist - a biglaw standard. In the corporate group, you don't get to choose a specialty - every 2 years they're going to rotate you into a new area. The lit practice also has a generalist focus. There's IP, antitrust, big commercial cases, investigations.

Lay prestige - WLRK has higher standards during campus interviews, probably a bit more "elite." CSM has prestige too, but as well documented on this thread, CSM is a peer of DPW, S&C, and the other top tier NY-based biglaw firms. And let's clarify here that those are all pretty excellent firms.

Culture - Cant speak to WLRK. I gather that CSM's rotation system enforces a no bullshit (or minimal bullshit) culture. You don't need to brown-nose partners for work or compete with your peers, because you're already assigned to a partner who gives you work. You all get paid exactly the same salary. This is a major distinction from the Lathams and Kirklands.

Pay - WLRK pays significantly more. The comp structure is pretty lucrative.

Hours - you're going to work slightly more at WLRK. You're still going to work a hell of a lot at CSM with the knowledge that your peers at WLRK and some of the other elite firms are getting paid significantly more.

[nealric]

what is this silly flame thread

It's not really a silly flame thread when everything that has been said so far is true. Here is a short list of what I've seen stated and find to be pretty accurate:

Despite Vault's general ranking, WLRK is more prestigious/impressive than Cravath.
WLRK is the public M&A king.
Cravath now has many peers in the public M&A space.
Cravath also has largely abandoned "up or out" and looks much more similar to a typical V10.
WLRK has far better partner:associate ratios.
There are many big firms and litigation boutiques that rival or surpass WLRK/Cravath in litigation strength.
WLRK will work you harder.
WLRK will pay you substantially better.
WLRK BK/Finance isn't quite on the same level as places like Kirkland/Weil.

Re: poster wondering about who turns down Wachtell. The only person I know personally who has done so had SCOTUS-level credentials and pursued a Kellogg-type firm instead. I think it made sense for my friend, because my friend had no interest in living in NY after giving it a try.

Also, this is a bit of flame, but Cravath celebrated their bicentennial last year (or maybe it was this year? 2020 has been long), and their promo materials were hilarious. It starts with them arguing groundbreaking cases in front of the Supreme Court that I remember reading in law school. As their timeline progresses, everything remotely interesting disappears, and it becomes represented [insert large corporation] in [insert commercial suit] for [insert large monetary value]. I don't even think they are in the top 10 firms arguing in front of the Supreme Court by volume anymore.

THE PARTNER IS DEAD, THE FIRM LIVES

THE PARTNER IS DEAD, THE FIRM LIVES

The "Cravath Walk" is supposedly apocryphal. But funny in a sort of creepy way.

https://abovethelaw.com/2018/04/lawyers ... -funerals/

[The Lsat Airbender]

WLRK is the firm that Cravath wants to see in the mirror

[Anonymous User]

what is this silly flame thread

It's not really a silly flame thread when everything that has been said so far is true. Here is a short list of what I've seen stated and find to be pretty accurate:

Despite Vault's general ranking, WLRK is more prestigious/impressive than Cravath.
WLRK is the public M&A king.
Cravath now has many peers in the public M&A space.
Cravath also has largely abandoned "up or out" and looks much more similar to a typical V10.
WLRK has far better partner:associate ratios.
There are many big firms and litigation boutiques that rival or surpass WLRK/Cravath in litigation strength.
WLRK will work you harder.
WLRK will pay you substantially better.
WLRK BK/Finance isn't quite on the same level as places like Kirkland/Weil.

Re: poster wondering about who turns down Wachtell. The only person I know personally who has done so had SCOTUS-level credentials and pursued a Kellogg-type firm instead. I think it made sense for my friend, because my friend had no interest in living in NY after giving it a try.

Also, this is a bit of flame, but Cravath celebrated their bicentennial last year (or maybe it was this year? 2020 has been long), and their promo materials were hilarious. It starts with them arguing groundbreaking cases in front of the Supreme Court that I remember reading in law school. As their timeline progresses, everything remotely interesting disappears, and it becomes represented [insert large corporation] in [insert commercial suit] for [insert large monetary value]. I don't even think they are in the top 10 firms arguing in front of the Supreme Court by volume anymore.

THE PARTNER IS DEAD, THE FIRM LIVES

THE PARTNER IS DEAD, THE FIRM LIVES

The "Cravath Walk" is supposedly apocryphal. But funny in a sort of creepy way.

https://abovethelaw.com/2018/04/lawyers ... -funerals/

I was at Andrew Thompson's funeral in April 2017. There was no chanting. But the partners did walk in, in the order elected. The female partners all had on matching Hermes scarfs. It was a somber and extremely tasteful sendoff to a kind and brilliant man. I miss Andrew. He was a good man, quick to teach, and quicker to make a hilarious joke under his breath.