Jumping Ship Due to Pushed Start Date

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Jumping Ship Due to Pushed Start Date

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:03 pm

Anon for obvious reasons and I'll keep this short. Is anyone who received a January 2021 start for their biglaw firm considering finding another opportunity that starts sooner? I was planning on working in a large market for a year then clerking in my target market for two. We heard a few weeks ago that we're being forced to start in January and I can't really afford to unemployed for another 5 months. I want to potentially find a job for a year at a firm in my target market to cut down on moving costs and have a place to go back to after I clerk. Any thoughts greatly appreciated.

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Re: Jumping Ship Due to Pushed Start Date

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:09 pm

I know two people who were pushed back to Jan/Feb who jumped ship for federal clerkships. If you get another offer that starts sooner and is interesting to you, don't be afraid to jump ship. Not a single managing partner or recruiter lost a wink of sleep over pushing you back to 2021—you don't owe your firm any loyalty.

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Re: Jumping Ship Due to Pushed Start Date

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:13 pm

In same boat and applying to other firms. This is a big differentiator and shows clearly which firms are willing to put their money where their mouth is and value incoming associates and their reputation (or which firms are struggling financially and which are going along strong). Especially disconcerting are the firms offering advances and not stipends for the deferral. Many of us had options in OCI that have not deferred to Jan or that have offered generous stipends.

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Re: Jumping Ship Due to Pushed Start Date

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:02 pm

I have considered starting to apply elsewhere after the bar this fall. My firm deferred, and while I can afford the deferral until January, I’m genuinely a bit worried about further deferral. Plus, I’m wanting to switch markets anyway (originally, I was planning to transfer offices).

My main concern is that my firm will find out I’m applying elsewhere and rescind my offer or something. The market I’m hoping to transfer to is nearby (think NY/DC, Houston/Dallas, etc.), and my firm has an office there. I’m worried that if I apply, it’ll get back to my firm.

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Re: Jumping Ship Due to Pushed Start Date

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:13 pm

Previously anon in the same boat. That's seems a fair worry that it could get back to the firm. I'm taking that chance anyway and if it does get back to them, well maybe it's not so bad because they should know they took the cheap/easy way out and that has repercussions. I understand pandemic and struggling economy, but other firms are doing right and have set the benchmark for desirability.

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Re: Jumping Ship Due to Pushed Start Date

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:13 pm
Previously anon in the same boat. That's seems a fair worry that it could get back to the firm. I'm taking that chance anyway and if it does get back to them, well maybe it's not so bad because they should know they took the cheap/easy way out and that has repercussions. I understand pandemic and struggling economy, but other firms are doing right and have set the benchmark for desirability.
Generally, I agree, but I'm not super confident in finding another firm job due to the economy and I don't want to risk getting my offer rescinded and just being totally screwed.

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Re: Jumping Ship Due to Pushed Start Date

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:43 pm

Incoming first year in major market in the same boat except that I’m already barred in my state because I took the exam in February. My school’s career office flat out told me not to apply elsewhere because it’s unprofessional to back out- clearly they’re concerned about their rep with the firm and not my job security. I’m applying to firms where I see actual postings for first years but in terms of high caliber firms, the postings are few and far between. Are you all mass mailing? I’m afraid to go the mass mailing route in case it does get back to my firm, like another poster said.

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Re: Jumping Ship Due to Pushed Start Date

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:43 pm
Incoming first year in major market in the same boat except that I’m already barred in my state because I took the exam in February. My school’s career office flat out told me not to apply elsewhere because it’s unprofessional to back out- clearly they’re concerned about their rep with the firm and not my job security. I’m applying to firms where I see actual postings for first years but in terms of high caliber firms, the postings are few and far between. Are you all mass mailing? I’m afraid to go the mass mailing route in case it does get back to my firm, like another poster said.
Above anon who expressed concerns about her firm finding out. If I choose to apply, I will mass mail, because I've seen zero postings for my (major) market.

Ignore your career office. They're looking out for themselves.

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Re: Jumping Ship Due to Pushed Start Date

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:52 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:43 pm
Incoming first year in major market in the same boat except that I’m already barred in my state because I took the exam in February. My school’s career office flat out told me not to apply elsewhere because it’s unprofessional to back out- clearly they’re concerned about their rep with the firm and not my job security. I’m applying to firms where I see actual postings for first years but in terms of high caliber firms, the postings are few and far between. Are you all mass mailing? I’m afraid to go the mass mailing route in case it does get back to my firm, like another poster said.
Above anon who expressed concerns about her firm finding out. If I choose to apply, I will mass mail, because I've seen zero postings for my (major) market.

Ignore your career office. They're looking out for themselves.
I agree the career office is definitely looking out for themselves. I haven’t decided if mass mailing is worth the risk, especially in this economy/world situation, simply because I think there’s less of a chance that people are hiring.

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Daboose

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Re: Jumping Ship Due to Pushed Start Date

Post by Daboose » Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:09 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:57 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:52 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:43 pm
Incoming first year in major market in the same boat except that I’m already barred in my state because I took the exam in February. My school’s career office flat out told me not to apply elsewhere because it’s unprofessional to back out- clearly they’re concerned about their rep with the firm and not my job security. I’m applying to firms where I see actual postings for first years but in terms of high caliber firms, the postings are few and far between. Are you all mass mailing? I’m afraid to go the mass mailing route in case it does get back to my firm, like another poster said.
Above anon who expressed concerns about her firm finding out. If I choose to apply, I will mass mail, because I've seen zero postings for my (major) market.

Ignore your career office. They're looking out for themselves.
I agree the career office is definitely looking out for themselves. I haven’t decided if mass mailing is worth the risk, especially in this economy/world situation, simply because I think there’s less of a chance that people are hiring.
As a current biglaw associate, mass mailing seems weird to me in this situation. Doubt you guys will be able to find something given COVID unfortunately.

Mass mailing is expected of law students and those that are unemployed post-grad but it comes across a bit strange to me for those that already have a job. I know that in my market, the legal recruiters at all the large firms know each other and they talk. In the lateral market, spamming your resume across town is generally a bad look. That said, if you have networking connections or hear about open positions, I think it is not a bad idea to reach out with a targeted approach. Or if you are trying to switch markets or practice groups, that would make sense.

But if you summered in Chicago for example and you are now just handing your resume out to every firm in Chicago, I think that does more harm to your reputation for a low likelihood of providing any results.

Anonymous User
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Re: Jumping Ship Due to Pushed Start Date

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:23 am

Daboose wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:09 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:57 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:52 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:43 pm
Incoming first year in major market in the same boat except that I’m already barred in my state because I took the exam in February. My school’s career office flat out told me not to apply elsewhere because it’s unprofessional to back out- clearly they’re concerned about their rep with the firm and not my job security. I’m applying to firms where I see actual postings for first years but in terms of high caliber firms, the postings are few and far between. Are you all mass mailing? I’m afraid to go the mass mailing route in case it does get back to my firm, like another poster said.
Above anon who expressed concerns about her firm finding out. If I choose to apply, I will mass mail, because I've seen zero postings for my (major) market.

Ignore your career office. They're looking out for themselves.
I agree the career office is definitely looking out for themselves. I haven’t decided if mass mailing is worth the risk, especially in this economy/world situation, simply because I think there’s less of a chance that people are hiring.
As a current biglaw associate, mass mailing seems weird to me in this situation. Doubt you guys will be able to find something given COVID unfortunately.

Mass mailing is expected of law students and those that are unemployed post-grad but it comes across a bit strange to me for those that already have a job. I know that in my market, the legal recruiters at all the large firms know each other and they talk. In the lateral market, spamming your resume across town is generally a bad look. That said, if you have networking connections or hear about open positions, I think it is not a bad idea to reach out with a targeted approach. Or if you are trying to switch markets or practice groups, that would make sense.

But if you summered in Chicago for example and you are now just handing your resume out to every firm in Chicago, I think that does more harm to your reputation for a low likelihood of providing any results.
Wow, this is fascinating to me. I am the anon who wants to transfer offices in the near future, and if it didn't work out with my firm, I was planning to basically just mass mail my resume around town and hope to get a bite. I am trying to move fairly soon due to personal reasons, so I figured (pre-COVID.. I know COVID changes everything) that mass mailing might be a more effective approach than using a recruiter. Is that just not the case? I mean, it's one thing if it's ineffective, but I certainly wouldn't want to harm my reputation.

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Re: Jumping Ship Due to Pushed Start Date

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:49 am

Thanks for the reply, current associate. I'm one of the previous anons. I understand that impression, but I don't think it bothers me. That it may be a "bad look" is unfortunate, but the firm isn't doing what they can to take care of me coming in so they have a bad look too. Unless my offer is rescinded, are people at the firm going to hold that over me when I start? Seems silly and detrimental to the firm to do so. Why onboard someone just to shaft them and get shafted back by them doing the minimum because of the poor treatment, coasting for a year or two while applying elsewhere from day 1 and then jumping ship as soon as they can? The start date at a firm *should* be a new beginning for all and regardless of whether you tried to go elsewhere. Once you join, there you are and will try hard and they should embrace you as an eager junior. Plans change, interests change, some firms make good decisions and some make poor ones that should have negative effects for recruiting

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Skool

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Re: Jumping Ship Due to Pushed Start Date

Post by Skool » Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:07 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:49 am
Thanks for the reply, current associate. I'm one of the previous anons. I understand that impression, but I don't think it bothers me. That it may be a "bad look" is unfortunate, but the firm isn't doing what they can to take care of me coming in so they have a bad look too. Unless my offer is rescinded, are people at the firm going to hold that over me when I start? Seems silly and detrimental to the firm to do so. Why onboard someone just to shaft them and get shafted back by them doing the minimum because of the poor treatment, coasting for a year or two while applying elsewhere from day 1 and then jumping ship as soon as they can? The start date at a firm *should* be a new beginning for all and regardless of whether you tried to go elsewhere. Once you join, there you are and will try hard and they should embrace you as an eager junior. Plans change, interests change, some firms make good decisions and some make poor ones that should have negative effects for recruiting
I think some of the anons in this thread are taking this a little too personally.

You shouldn’t feel any loyalty to some firm. If you can get an offer to start this fall instead of waiting for your new firm in 2021, take it, no matter what your career services jokers say. I would try and get my resume out there in a targeted way. But probably low risk to mass mail with current firm on resume.

But it isn’t TTT for the firm to offer an advance instead of a stipend. Lots of good firms do that for summer bar study. Nor is it inherently TTT to wait til 2021 to onboard people in these circumstances. I haven’t followed it closely, but it seems like there’s a lot of uncertainty about the bar exam date.

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Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Jumping Ship Due to Pushed Start Date

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:00 am

Daboose wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:09 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:57 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:52 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:43 pm
Incoming first year in major market in the same boat except that I’m already barred in my state because I took the exam in February. My school’s career office flat out told me not to apply elsewhere because it’s unprofessional to back out- clearly they’re concerned about their rep with the firm and not my job security. I’m applying to firms where I see actual postings for first years but in terms of high caliber firms, the postings are few and far between. Are you all mass mailing? I’m afraid to go the mass mailing route in case it does get back to my firm, like another poster said.
Above anon who expressed concerns about her firm finding out. If I choose to apply, I will mass mail, because I've seen zero postings for my (major) market.

Ignore your career office. They're looking out for themselves.
I agree the career office is definitely looking out for themselves. I haven’t decided if mass mailing is worth the risk, especially in this economy/world situation, simply because I think there’s less of a chance that people are hiring.
As a current biglaw associate, mass mailing seems weird to me in this situation. Doubt you guys will be able to find something given COVID unfortunately.

Mass mailing is expected of law students and those that are unemployed post-grad but it comes across a bit strange to me for those that already have a job. I know that in my market, the legal recruiters at all the large firms know each other and they talk. In the lateral market, spamming your resume across town is generally a bad look. That said, if you have networking connections or hear about open positions, I think it is not a bad idea to reach out with a targeted approach. Or if you are trying to switch markets or practice groups, that would make sense.

But if you summered in Chicago for example and you are now just handing your resume out to every firm in Chicago, I think that does more harm to your reputation for a low likelihood of providing any results.
Thanks for your insight and comments! I'm the anon that just graduated/is already barred and talked to career services. I think this pretty much solidifies that I'm just going to keep checking to see if any firms do post open spots for first years. And I might have to throw my hat into the clerkship ring. I really don't want to do nothing for the next five months.

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Re: Jumping Ship Due to Pushed Start Date

Post by DCESQ » Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:30 pm

As a mid-level, I just wanted to jump in to say that I don't see a problem with trying to find a new job, but I think you're going to have a difficult time finding openings for first-years, when many firms haven't decided how they plan to handle their former summer associates. Unless you plan to be a bankruptcy associate and maybe M&A, I'm not sure others practices areas are looking for people immediately.

On another note, I get the money issue completely. I drove for Uber/Lyft after the bar before starting work. But you will miss having free time once you start. I billed 75 hours last week, and will probably bill another 50-60 this week. Add that to constantly having to check my phone and work late because we get things from the client late in the day, I wouldn't mind a couple of months off.

Finally, unless your new start date is October, do you really want to start work right before the holiday season? I've had many Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Year's celebrations impacted by work. Just some other things to consider.

Anonymous User
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Re: Jumping Ship Due to Pushed Start Date

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:02 pm
My firm deferred, and while I can afford the deferral until January, I’m genuinely a bit worried about further deferral.
This. Why expect the reasons behind deferral now (being fiscally conservative; not having enough work for first years; partner greed) to magically disappear by January? PR?
[Edit. accidental anon, please de-anon. Thanks]

Anonymous User
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Re: Jumping Ship Due to Pushed Start Date

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:46 pm

Daboose wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:09 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:57 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:52 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:43 pm
Incoming first year in major market in the same boat except that I’m already barred in my state because I took the exam in February. My school’s career office flat out told me not to apply elsewhere because it’s unprofessional to back out- clearly they’re concerned about their rep with the firm and not my job security. I’m applying to firms where I see actual postings for first years but in terms of high caliber firms, the postings are few and far between. Are you all mass mailing? I’m afraid to go the mass mailing route in case it does get back to my firm, like another poster said.
Above anon who expressed concerns about her firm finding out. If I choose to apply, I will mass mail, because I've seen zero postings for my (major) market.

Ignore your career office. They're looking out for themselves.
I agree the career office is definitely looking out for themselves. I haven’t decided if mass mailing is worth the risk, especially in this economy/world situation, simply because I think there’s less of a chance that people are hiring.
As a current biglaw associate, mass mailing seems weird to me in this situation. Doubt you guys will be able to find something given COVID unfortunately.

Mass mailing is expected of law students and those that are unemployed post-grad but it comes across a bit strange to me for those that already have a job. I know that in my market, the legal recruiters at all the large firms know each other and they talk. In the lateral market, spamming your resume across town is generally a bad look. That said, if you have networking connections or hear about open positions, I think it is not a bad idea to reach out with a targeted approach. Or if you are trying to switch markets or practice groups, that would make sense.

But if you summered in Chicago for example and you are now just handing your resume out to every firm in Chicago, I think that does more harm to your reputation for a low likelihood of providing any results.
I think OP and all of the anonymous posters asking about jumping ship have stated that they're looking to switch markets.

I'm starting in October, but if my firm had deferred, I'd for sure be mass mailing. In fact, I did mass mail/cold email alumni to successfully switch markets after my 2L SA. Never worried about my SA firm finding out. There's really no downside as long as you're not doing it within the same market as your current firm/office. The fact that it's unlikely you'll find anything doesn't mean you shouldn't try. Especially if you're not lit-focused and had options at OCI.

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