My summer firms are in denial about coronavirus Forum

[Anonymous User]

[sorry, I meant to originally post this here]

I'm not sure how unique this problem is or if other people are experiencing it but not talking about it. I've split this summer at two large-ish firms in a mid-size city in the South. They wouldn't be considered Big Law, but they're elite firms in this region (they only hire from the top of the class at local law schools).

I've been shocked at how these firms have dealt with Covid. They asked everyone to come back to the office as soon as the state allowed office buildings to reopen--even though I know some attorneys were not actually comfortable coming back. Many older partners, and even some associates, who I assume are politically conservative, do not wear masks in the office. They've been scheduling lunches for summers and groups of attorneys at restaurants. This all makes me very uncomfortable because my own family is being much more careful and mostly staying home, but I've felt like I had to play along.

Obviously this reflects the fact that I'm in the South, where many people are not taking the virus seriously. But I would have thought these regionally prestigious firms would be more progressive and sophisticated in their response to this crisis. It makes me doubt their leadership, and has made the whole summer more stressful than it needed to be.

Has anyone else experienced this? Is this a sign that I really shouldn't work at one of these firms if I get an offer?

[The Lsat Airbender]

Elite law firms are run by shitboomers. That applies in SF just as much as in Memphis. It just manifests in different ways depending on local politics.

I'm sorry you had to deal with that, and I hope your family stays healthy, but I would not (for this reason alone) decide not to work at a firm.

[EzraFitz]

Is your law firm the one from The Firm??

[Anonymous User]

Is your law firm the one from The Firm??

Not quite, but similar vibe

[Anonymous User]

Elite law firms are run by shitboomers. That applies in SF just as much as in Memphis. It just manifests in different ways depending on local politics.

I'm sorry you had to deal with that, and I hope your family stays healthy, but I would not (for this reason alone) decide not to work at a firm.

Yeah, that's definitely true. I may be overreacting, but at this point it seems like the main thing I'll remember from this summer is disapproving of these firms' attitudes and stressing about my family's health, so it's a real turn-off.

[JusticeChuckleNutz]

Elite law firms are run by shitboomers. That applies in SF just as much as in Memphis. It just manifests in different ways depending on local politics.

I'm sorry you had to deal with that, and I hope your family stays healthy, but I would not (for this reason alone) decide not to work at a firm.

[legalpotato]

Elite law firms are run by shitboomers. That applies in SF just as much as in Memphis. It just manifests in different ways depending on local politics.

I'm sorry you had to deal with that, and I hope your family stays healthy, but I would not (for this reason alone) decide not to work at a firm.

Yeah, that's definitely true. I may be overreacting, but at this point it seems like the main thing I'll remember from this summer is disapproving of these firms' attitudes and stressing about my family's health, so it's a real turn-off.

Well, a bunch of students had their summers cancelled with no pay and no return offer. Sure, some firms like my v10 basically paid summers the full pay for the full summer to do nothing and gave them return offers, but this is definitely a minority in the overall legal landscape.

All that said, curious if you would prefer your current firm's approach or prefer the approach of a majority of the law firms in the country right now (i.e., cancel your program w/out pay and no offer).

[Anonymous User]

It is sad that American society still haven't fully realized how serious this pandemic is after six months with more than 140,000 killed by covid19.

[Anonymous User]

I'm also in Texas but our firm is taking it seriously. Sounds like we won't go back to the office at full capacity until there is a vaccine. The attorneys in my group are able to work remotely no problem.

All our official summer events were over zoom and we were specifically told not to invite any summers to coffee/lunch/dinner because the firm did not want to pressure summers to do something they were not comfortable with.

[legalfella12]

Many older partners, and even some associates, who I assume are politically conservative, do not wear masks in the office . . . Obviously this reflects the fact that I'm in the South, where many people are not taking the virus seriously.

Please don't generalize the South.

1. I don't think its fair to say not wearing masks is representative of all conservatives. Some conservatives refusing to wear masks does not equate to all conservatives refuse to wear masks. Just like some liberals believe the government should be violently overthrown doesn't equate to all liberals believe the government should be violently overthrown (extreme example true but it makes my point).

2. It's not correct to say that the entire South has many people who do not take the virus seriously. The leftwing news media does a great job of portraying conservatives generally in an unfavorable light. Similarly, the right wing media does a great job of portraying liberals generally in an unfavorable light. It is important not to buy into either of these biased narratives "hook line and sinker" and find the middle-ground. That's usually where the truth is.

There's enough divisiveness going on today. Lets not spread that fire.

[nixy]

Saying that people who don't wear masks are conservative isn't the same as saying that all conservatives don't wear masks. I think it's pretty fair to assume that anti-maskers are politically conservative.

[istan]

Saying that people who don't wear masks are conservative isn't the same as saying that all conservatives don't wear masks. I think it's pretty fair to assume that anti-maskers are politically conservative.

Exactly. The only people who have made mask-wearing a divisive issue are the political conservatives, led by Donald Trump, who have refused to wear masks.

[Anonymous User]

Elite law firms are run by shitboomers. That applies in SF just as much as in Memphis. It just manifests in different ways depending on local politics.

I'm sorry you had to deal with that, and I hope your family stays healthy, but I would not (for this reason alone) decide not to work at a firm.

Yeah, that's definitely true. I may be overreacting, but at this point it seems like the main thing I'll remember from this summer is disapproving of these firms' attitudes and stressing about my family's health, so it's a real turn-off.

Well, a bunch of students had their summers cancelled with no pay and no return offer. Sure, some firms like my v10 basically paid summers the full pay for the full summer to do nothing and gave them return offers, but this is definitely a minority in the overall legal landscape.

All that said, curious if you would prefer your current firm's approach or prefer the approach of a majority of the law firms in the country right now (i.e., cancel your program w/out pay and no offer).

OP here. I certainly am grateful to have been employed this summer and think I'm in a privileged situation compared to those who lost their jobs. But it has been hard to have this issue make me feel like I don't fit in at either of these firms when, if things were normal, I may have enjoyed myself.

As for the politics behind masks in the office, I definitely think that partners who are politically conservative set the tone of not requiring masks in the office for ideological reasons. There's no getting around that given how attitudes about masks clearly fall along political lines. But once that tone was set, I think others in the office who may not explicitly agree with that ideology stopped wearing masks because no one was making them and it's more comfortable not to. I don't think that's a valid justification because it still puts vulnerable people at risk, which is why offices should have a clear mask policy, but it helps explain the situation.

[legalfella12]

Considering that I can't pm the moderator to ask this - why was my anon post outed? Is there a set of rules about this somewhere or am I being outed because I'm giving a political opinion?

If I broke I rule I'd like to know which one. New to the site so please let me know.

[cavalier1138]

Considering that I can't pm the moderator to ask this - why was my anon post outed? Is there a set of rules about this somewhere or am I being outed because I'm giving a political opinion?

If I broke I rule I'd like to know which one. New to the site so please let me know.

Here you go. (It's the thread with "Read Before Posting" in the title.)

[Daboose]

Sorry for your experience OP. I'm a conservative attorney in Texas and I've found that most conservatives I know are taking the virus seriously and are fine wearing a mask so I hope your experience is the exception and not the rule for other Texas law firms.

For me personally I think that as a party that tries to be pro small business, we should do our part to slow the spread or at least help people feel more comfortable so the economy can keep moving as much as possible. I think that's important because when people lose their livelihood that creates a bunch of other problems for society on top of the virus. If masks help with that, all the better.

I'm not 100% sure thought that masks are the best solution - maybe that is why the CDC went back and forth on recommending it in the beginning. I see a lot of people touching their mask or the rest of their face and getting closer to each than 6 feet - so maybe the mask provides a false sense of security and another temptation to touch your face. But I am all for the fundamentals of social distancing, washing hands and limiting unnecessary contact. Not a huge fan of gloves though - unless you change them frequently enough, I think you are better off washing your hands or using hand sanitizer.

But if wearing a mask is the official guidance/approach, I think people should do it. If anything it's a signal to those around you that you care and you are taking this seriously.

[The Lsat Airbender]

If anything it's a signal to those around you that you care and you are taking this seriously.

Which is precisely why people of a certain political bent (itself not per se "conservative," IMO, but which overlaps almost 100% with Donald Trump and Gary Johnson voters) refuse to wear them.

[Anonymous User]

[sorry, I meant to originally post this here]

I'm not sure how unique this problem is or if other people are experiencing it but not talking about it. I've split this summer at two large-ish firms in a mid-size city in the South. They wouldn't be considered Big Law, but they're elite firms in this region (they only hire from the top of the class at local law schools).

I've been shocked at how these firms have dealt with Covid. They asked everyone to come back to the office as soon as the state allowed office buildings to reopen--even though I know some attorneys were not actually comfortable coming back. Many older partners, and even some associates, who I assume are politically conservative, do not wear masks in the office. They've been scheduling lunches for summers and groups of attorneys at restaurants. This all makes me very uncomfortable because my own family is being much more careful and mostly staying home, but I've felt like I had to play along.

Obviously this reflects the fact that I'm in the South, where many people are not taking the virus seriously. But I would have thought these regionally prestigious firms would be more progressive and sophisticated in their response to this crisis. It makes me doubt their leadership, and has made the whole summer more stressful than it needed to be.

Has anyone else experienced this? Is this a sign that I really shouldn't work at one of these firms if I get an offer?

A good firm will not treat their employees like this during a pandemic. I work at a generally conservative firm that has taken this very seriously. We just started re-opening specific offices and even once the office is fully re-opened, they will not be requiring people to come in (at least according to what we've been provided). I doubt I'll ever go to my office again other than very late at night to pick up my belongings. Any firm that treats this situation like the OP's is utter shit, politics has nothing to do with it. Look at going to another firm, preferably one in a more moderate state. Even in my state, which is pretty much 50/50, people take this very seriously, especially if they have large offices in other moderate/blue states.

[Anonymous User]

[sorry, I meant to originally post this here]

I'm not sure how unique this problem is or if other people are experiencing it but not talking about it. I've split this summer at two large-ish firms in a mid-size city in the South. They wouldn't be considered Big Law, but they're elite firms in this region (they only hire from the top of the class at local law schools).

I've been shocked at how these firms have dealt with Covid. They asked everyone to come back to the office as soon as the state allowed office buildings to reopen--even though I know some attorneys were not actually comfortable coming back. Many older partners, and even some associates, who I assume are politically conservative, do not wear masks in the office. They've been scheduling lunches for summers and groups of attorneys at restaurants. This all makes me very uncomfortable because my own family is being much more careful and mostly staying home, but I've felt like I had to play along.

Obviously this reflects the fact that I'm in the South, where many people are not taking the virus seriously. But I would have thought these regionally prestigious firms would be more progressive and sophisticated in their response to this crisis. It makes me doubt their leadership, and has made the whole summer more stressful than it needed to be.

Has anyone else experienced this? Is this a sign that I really shouldn't work at one of these firms if I get an offer?

A good firm will not treat their employees like this during a pandemic. I work at a generally conservative firm that has taken this very seriously. We just started re-opening specific offices and even once the office is fully re-opened, they will not be requiring people to come in (at least according to what we've been provided). I doubt I'll ever go to my office again other than very late at night to pick up my belongings. Any firm that treats this situation like the OP's is utter shit, politics has nothing to do with it. Look at going to another firm, preferably one in a more moderate state. Even in my state, which is pretty much 50/50, people take this very seriously, especially if they have large offices in other moderate/blue states.

OP here. This really captures how I feel. I honestly am considering moving to another market, because both firms I've worked at have had this lax attitude and it seems like many other firms in my area have as well (though some have been respectful of the rules). But the fact that this behavior flies in my area makes me feel like I don't fit into the culture here (even though I grew up here). Before Covid, I could have handled being in the political minority in my area, but the situation has brought all these tensions to the forefront and I'm over it.
I'm now considering applying to big firms in DC or NYC, but my concern is that my resume so far has been focused on my area. I'm at the top of my class and have a clerkship lined up, but my school is pretty regional. Plus the hiring prospects of those firms is obviously unpredictable right now.