Pre-OCI 2020 Forum

[MovingForward212]

I realize the world is a bit crazy right now, but is this even a thing anymore? If so, shall we discuss?

[Anonymous User]

I realize the world is a bit crazy right now, but is this even a thing anymore? If so, shall we discuss?

I have tossed a few emails out, and so has one of my buddies. I am applying to NY/DC, and he is applying to a non-costal market. He has received a decent amount of feedback, and I expect him to land a job before OCI in January. I had one firm get back to me, but I had somewhat of a relationship with the guy before the world became crazy. The vibe I am getting is that firms are willing to talk, but not necessarily give offers (my buddy is probably an exception as he has stellar grades at a top school).

[rando1312]

Is it worth emailing people one has connected with before? See if recruiting is going on? Any news on Pre-OCI for V25 firms?

[jackshunger]

I realize the world is a bit crazy right now, but is this even a thing anymore? If so, shall we discuss?

I have tossed a few emails out, and so has one of my buddies. I am applying to NY/DC, and he is applying to a non-costal market. He has received a decent amount of feedback, and I expect him to land a job before OCI in January. I had one firm get back to me, but I had somewhat of a relationship with the guy before the world became crazy. The vibe I am getting is that firms are willing to talk, but not necessarily give offers (my buddy is probably an exception as he has stellar grades at a top school).

I spoke with a partner who would know at a top firm (in a conversation that prior to COVID I am 100% certain was a screener), and (s)he more or less said they were impressed by my year and to check back with them at the end of the summer when I'd hopefully be back on campus. Can't imagine anyone is getting offers right now, things are too uncertain.

[Anonymous User]

Current 1L SA who also had a fair number of screeners/callbacks for 1L SAs back in January in the same (Non-NYC) market. T-14 top 10%. I had a half dozen firms let me know in January that they wanted my information as soon as it was available at the end of spring semester. I sent it this morning. Got two almost immediate responses from recruiters I trust (who's the fool?) that their timelines, which had been previously personally communicated to be focused on pre-OCI hiring, are pushed back until the end of the summer but that they'll be in touch then. I'm not sure how much weight I put in that latter portion.

I'll update if/when I get more concrete information.

[Anonymous User]

Current 1L SA who also had a fair number of screeners/callbacks for 1L SAs back in January in the same (Non-NYC) market. T-14 top 10%. I had a half dozen firms let me know in January that they wanted my information as soon as it was available at the end of spring semester. I sent it this morning. Got two almost immediate responses from recruiters I trust (who's the fool?) that their timelines, which had been previously personally communicated to be focused on pre-OCI hiring, are pushed back until the end of the summer but that they'll be in touch then. I'm not sure how much weight I put in that latter portion.

I'll update if/when I get more concrete information.

I would guess a lot of firms are still worried about 2020 summers and figuring out what they're doing about new associates who were supposed to start in the fall. Most firms (including mine and all my friends') still haven't announced start dates. Once that stuff is all settled, then I'd guess they move on to 2021 hiring.

[Anonymous User]

Current 1L SA who also had a fair number of screeners/callbacks for 1L SAs back in January in the same (Non-NYC) market. T-14 top 10%. I had a half dozen firms let me know in January that they wanted my information as soon as it was available at the end of spring semester. I sent it this morning. Got two almost immediate responses from recruiters I trust (who's the fool?) that their timelines, which had been previously personally communicated to be focused on pre-OCI hiring, are pushed back until the end of the summer but that they'll be in touch then. I'm not sure how much weight I put in that latter portion.

I'll update if/when I get more concrete information.

I was in a similar situation pre-COVID but I haven't reached out to firms yet. My school went P/F and I assume firms would want another semester of grades. Did you still send in an updated transcript with P/F grades?

[BrainsyK]

I have nothing except for precedent of what happened during the great financial crisis and an intuitive sense of how this is just how everything seems to work around the world these days to base this off of, but here it goes.

If hiring is impacted, which I suspect that it will be, the difference between rich and poor (in terms of recruiting currency) will be more pronounced. My bet is that as soon as firms settle the class of 2020/2021's business, pre-OCI will begin, and firms will be even more aggressive and selective than usual such that those with top grades, LR, and high end, professional service based work experience will be swimming in more CBs than is usually the case, while those in the murky middle that in the past might've gotten a few bites, will have relatively little to no interesting shown in them.

This will in turn impact OCI recruiting and make its statistics look worse than it actually is. At OCI, it will again be a situation where people are swimming in CBs or have one or maybe three tops, and even more than usual, a lot of people will be coming out of OCI with only one offer at a firm that might be underwhelming relative to their grades, work experience, and personality.

[Anonymous User]

Current 1L SA who also had a fair number of screeners/callbacks for 1L SAs back in January in the same (Non-NYC) market. T-14 top 10%. I had a half dozen firms let me know in January that they wanted my information as soon as it was available at the end of spring semester. I sent it this morning. Got two almost immediate responses from recruiters I trust (who's the fool?) that their timelines, which had been previously personally communicated to be focused on pre-OCI hiring, are pushed back until the end of the summer but that they'll be in touch then. I'm not sure how much weight I put in that latter portion.

I'll update if/when I get more concrete information.

I was in a similar situation pre-COVID but I haven't reached out to firms yet. My school went P/F and I assume firms would want another semester of grades. Did you still send in an updated transcript with P/F grades?

Anon to whom you replied. I haven't heard anything from any firm to which I've applied. Yes, I sent in my transcript with P/F grades. If Pre-OCI is going to be a thing at all it's going to have to be with one semester of grades in many cases. Our grades won't possibly be out more than a few weeks before actual OCI. That might be enough time to schedule screeners and callbacks in the first/second week of January. Who knows? I didn't apply anywhere yet that I didn't have at least one contact on the inside since I'm honestly happy with the firm I'm currently SAing with. It was more about fulfilling promises that I had previously made to specific individuals; I didn't want to seem like a flake.

A few partners I've talked with have expressed some concerns with declining realization rates for their firms but that information will be concrete before OCI season. I do agree with the poster above that Pre-OCI is going to be a thing and even if it's not I'm not going to be caught lagging behind if it is. I'd say if your one semester of grades is above their traditional recruiting median at your school you shouldn't wait. The worst thing they'll say is, "thanks, we'll see you at OCI" or something of that nature. I'm a big believer that the job hunt, if you don't already have an offer, is more about putting 50 poles in the water and walking away than putting 2 in and watching them intently.

[Anonymous User]

Current 1L SA who also had a fair number of screeners/callbacks for 1L SAs back in January in the same (Non-NYC) market. T-14 top 10%. I had a half dozen firms let me know in January that they wanted my information as soon as it was available at the end of spring semester. I sent it this morning. Got two almost immediate responses from recruiters I trust (who's the fool?) that their timelines, which had been previously personally communicated to be focused on pre-OCI hiring, are pushed back until the end of the summer but that they'll be in touch then. I'm not sure how much weight I put in that latter portion.

I'll update if/when I get more concrete information.

I was in a similar situation pre-COVID but I haven't reached out to firms yet. My school went P/F and I assume firms would want another semester of grades. Did you still send in an updated transcript with P/F grades?

Anon to whom you replied. I haven't heard anything from any firm to which I've applied. Yes, I sent in my transcript with P/F grades. If Pre-OCI is going to be a thing at all it's going to have to be with one semester of grades in many cases. Our grades won't possibly be out more than a few weeks before actual OCI. That might be enough time to schedule screeners and callbacks in the first/second week of January. Who knows? I didn't apply anywhere yet that I didn't have at least one contact on the inside since I'm honestly happy with the firm I'm currently SAing with. It was more about fulfilling promises that I had previously made to specific individuals; I didn't want to seem like a flake.

A few partners I've talked with have expressed some concerns with declining realization rates for their firms but that information will be concrete before OCI season. I do agree with the poster above that Pre-OCI is going to be a thing and even if it's not I'm not going to be caught lagging behind if it is. I'd say if your one semester of grades is above their traditional recruiting median at your school you shouldn't wait. The worst thing they'll say is, "thanks, we'll see you at OCI" or something of that nature. I'm a big believer that the job hunt, if you don't already have an offer, is more about putting 50 poles in the water and walking away than putting 2 in and watching them intently.

Thanks for the response. I'm also lucky enough to be at a firm I like this summer, so there's only a few firms (unfortunately, grade-selective ones) I'd pick over this one. But you're right, it doesn't seem like I have much to lose by reaching out. Will update here if I hear anything!

[Anonymous User]

Just as an update, haven’t heard anything about either coastal market. Apparently a few screeners but I’ve yet to hear of any offers at my school (CCNMVP).

[rando1312]

Do they tell us when it's a screener? or are calls with partners possible screeners?

[AllAboutTheBasis]

Do they tell us when it's a screener? or are calls with partners possible screeners?

Treat everything as a screener/real interview. I got coffee with attorneys a couple of times which ended up serving as a screener and got me to final round interviews.

[Anonymous User]

Of the two v10s I was in touch with pre-corona, one seems to no longer be doing pre-OCI while the other is waiting until fall.

[Anonymous User]

Have it on good authority that multiple Texas firms have started moving forward with pre-OCI. This includes both traditional Texas firms and larger national firms. Probably not surprising since Texas always moves early.

[Anonymous User]

OCI seems like a low priority at my V10 firm. We just finished our summer program and just announced new associates starting in November. Hiring committee seems to have not really ramped up thinking about next summer yet.

We're more of a follower than a leader so if we start hearing that other firms are making offers, I'm sure we'll pick up our pace.

[bigbeau]

Have it on good authority that multiple Texas firms have started moving forward with pre-OCI. This includes both traditional Texas firms and larger national firms. Probably not surprising since Texas always moves early.

Dallas or Houston or both? And I know some firms have been opening their applications but I haven’t heard any movement yet

[Anonymous User]

A friend of mine (top 5% at CCN / LR) has done multiple remote pre-OCI callbacks with Houston offices but has not gotten bites at any NY shops.

My NYC V10 is likely going to begin doing pre-OCI in September. We're not yet sure of how selective we will be, how much of the class we want to fill this way, etc. (Source: am close to two recruiting people at the firm but am not on recruiting committee.)

[Anonymous User]

A friend of mine (top 5% at CCN / LR) has done multiple remote pre-OCI callbacks with Houston offices but has not gotten bites at any NY shops.

My NYC V10 is likely going to begin doing pre-OCI in September. We're not yet sure of how selective we will be, how much of the class we want to fill this way, etc. (Source: am close to two recruiting people at the firm but am not on recruiting committee.)

Anon for obvious reasons. Not to hijack this thread, but any chance you know what your firm is doing about 3L hiring? I've been told by one NYC V10 that they aren't looking at 3Ls until January. Radio silence from the rest.

[Anonymous User]

A friend of mine (top 5% at CCN / LR) has done multiple remote pre-OCI callbacks with Houston offices but has not gotten bites at any NY shops.

My NYC V10 is likely going to begin doing pre-OCI in September. We're not yet sure of how selective we will be, how much of the class we want to fill this way, etc. (Source: am close to two recruiting people at the firm but am not on recruiting committee.)

Anon for obvious reasons. Not to hijack this thread, but any chance you know what your firm is doing about 3L hiring? I've been told by one NYC V10 that they aren't looking at 3Ls until January. Radio silence from the rest.

Anon from above:

We hire 3Ls for niche positions we couldn't fill over the summer (e.g. exec comp, tax, patent). If you have a strong & demonstrated interest in something specific (e.g. soft IP transactions, real estate, funds), we would take a look if your interest fit a need. If you were just a generalist, you would probably not be considered.

Recruiting people tell me that 3L hiring for us is driven by practice need, so if they want to hire someone now, they will -- and if they want to wait until Feb, they'll do that.

[Anonymous User]

A friend of mine (top 5% at CCN / LR) has done multiple remote pre-OCI callbacks with Houston offices but has not gotten bites at any NY shops.

My NYC V10 is likely going to begin doing pre-OCI in September. We're not yet sure of how selective we will be, how much of the class we want to fill this way, etc. (Source: am close to two recruiting people at the firm but am not on recruiting committee.)

Anon for obvious reasons. Not to hijack this thread, but any chance you know what your firm is doing about 3L hiring? I've been told by one NYC V10 that they aren't looking at 3Ls until January. Radio silence from the rest.

Anon from above:

We hire 3Ls for niche positions we couldn't fill over the summer (e.g. exec comp, tax, patent). If you have a strong & demonstrated interest in something specific (e.g. soft IP transactions, real estate, funds), we would take a look if your interest fit a need. If you were just a generalist, you would probably not be considered.

Recruiting people tell me that 3L hiring for us is driven by practice need, so if they want to hire someone now, they will -- and if they want to wait until Feb, they'll do that.

3L Anon here. Thanks! So if I applied to general corporate but discussed some experiences that could fit into real estate, restructuring, funds, etc., that would still be too broad?

[Anonymous User]

Have it on good authority that multiple Texas firms have started moving forward with pre-OCI. This includes both traditional Texas firms and larger national firms. Probably not surprising since Texas always moves early.

Dallas or Houston or both? And I know some firms have been opening their applications but I haven’t heard any movement yet

My source told me she had interviews from offices in Houston only. No offers as of yet to my knowledge.

[Anonymous User]

Is pre-OCI a thing for people with mediocre grades?

(T14, below median with 1 semester's worth of grades + 1 semester P/F)

[BrainsyK]

Is pre-OCI a thing for people with mediocre grades?

(T14, below median with 1 semester's worth of grades + 1 semester P/F)

Yes, I had a friend land 4 pre-OCI offers with probably bottom third grades.

[Anonymous User]

Is pre-OCI a thing for people with mediocre grades?

(T14, below median with 1 semester's worth of grades + 1 semester P/F)

Questions this general are sort of silly. It depends on the market, your prior work experience, your ties to firms, your law school, if you are URM, etc.

Conventional wisdom is that you should mass-mail / reach out to contacts, because 1.) you never know who will bite and 2.) there's no downside to doing so unless you catastrophically fuck up somehow.

FWIW my NYC v10 wouldn't bite on any < median without someone at the firm really going to bat for them, clear interest in a practice where we have trouble getting people (e.g. exec comp), or really compelling work experience (i.e. ibanking, buyside anything, 1L firm job).