Lease Renewal/COVID Forum

[Anonymous User]

I figure many may be in a similar situation so I am wondering people's thoughts on this are. I live fairly close to my NYC office and pay a premium for that. My lease renewal will be coming up in a couple months but it seems from my firm's communications that it is highly unlikely we will be required to go into the office in 2020.
The way I see it, there are two options with this in mind that will both save me a lot of money.
1. I move further away from the office (think moving into NJ suburbs) and save approximately 10-15k on a yearlong lease.

2. I move home to another state and continue working remotely as long as possible and save approximately 40k on a yearlong lease by living for free with my family.

Both are risks because with 1, if we start going back to the office, I'll have a ridiculous commute and be locked into a new lease. With 2, I would be completely unable to go into the office and would have to move back. 2 does grant flexibility, however, because I wouldnt need to a break a lease or anything to come back and live closer to the office. I am also not sure how I would approach this with my work though, they dont have an office in my home state if that matters (but during this time I have heard of associates working from their home states for the last few months and our firm really only has offices in a couple states).

The third option would obviously be to keep my current place and throw money down the drain since I'm paying a premium to live close to the office but not working in the office.

1 additional consideration: I am planning to potentially leave my firm within a year or two and moving to my home state anyways, living at home would allow me to substantially accelerate my savings depending on how long remote work stays (6 months of living at home would save me approximately 20-25k).

[Lesion of Doom]

Given how far-flung many *partners* are at the moment, firms will have to grant everyone time to return to the office. They aren't going to force you back in one week, so I doubt moving out of state would be a problem. Besides, maybe you can do some career networking while you're at it.

Moving wasn't an option for us for other reasons, but many of my NYC colleagues are in the Midwest and down South. I damn sure wouldn't sign a new lease if I didn't need to or just really wanted to experience a gimped NYC summer.

[notinbiglaw]

Keep in mind it’s highly unlikely we will get to work from home for the duration of your next lease.

I think the right play is to try to negotiate on rent and hope you can save a few grand a year

[RaceJudicata]

Id move in with parents. Even if you are out of office for 3 more months (which seems unlikely - probably longer), you are saving a ton of money. Put stuff in storage so you don’t have to schlep it all to parents, and can probably get a place and move back to city in short order. Also agree with post above- you are going to have some lead time on returning to office, so won’t have to rush back in the span of a week.

[Anonymous User]

Also in a similar situation, and leaning towards not renewing and just saving $$$ while living with the 'rents for a couple months. Anyone know how much storage for 1 bedroom apartment worth of furniture runs? I'm sure it's a PITA to pack it all up for storage purposes and then set it all up again, but probs worth the significant $ savings. Also I think rent prices will go down, so you may end up with a better lease in a few months when you want to move back, but that's my totally uneducated guess.

[Anonymous User]

Just another perspective, I have a neighbor in my complex who tried to negotiate after they announced rent increases for us in Austin, Texas. He was unsuccessful, and they leased his unit less than a week later for a lease starting in August. Probably much different in Austin than NYC for a number of reasons, but thought I'd mention it. It surprised me.

[cheaptilts]

Just another perspective, I have a neighbor in my complex who tried to negotiate after they announced rent increases for us in Austin, Texas. He was unsuccessful, and they leased his unit less than a week later for a lease starting in August. Probably much different in Austin than NYC for a number of reasons, but thought I'd mention it. It surprised me.

It’s much different in NYC.

[Babum]

I'd just be careful about potential UPL by working in a state in which you are not licensed.

[blair.waldorf]

I'd just be careful about potential UPL by working in a state in which you are not licensed.

Is this really an issue? What about when people work remotely during the holidays and such?

[Auxilio]

I'm planning on keeping my apartment, but similar units are currently going for ~500/month less than I'm paying so will be happy to just lock in that savings.

[kovdak02]

I'd just be careful about potential UPL by working in a state in which you are not licensed.

Is this really an issue? What about when people work remotely during the holidays and such?

Every bar seems to overlook working from X temporarily on vacation, etc. while your legitimate permanent address is in the state, but it’s just not the same to actually move out of state and continue practicing as though you still live in New York.

[Crickets]

I'd just be careful about potential UPL by working in a state in which you are not licensed.

Is this really an issue? What about when people work remotely during the holidays and such?

Every bar seems to overlook working from X temporarily on vacation, etc. while your legitimate permanent address is in the state, but it’s just not the same to actually move out of state and continue practicing as though you still live in New York.

What about living in Connecticut or New Jersey and being barred in NY? Or living in Maryland or Virginia and barred in D.C.? Aren’t those instances of prolonged working in a state in which you aren’t barred?

[kovdak02]

I'd just be careful about potential UPL by working in a state in which you are not licensed.

Is this really an issue? What about when people work remotely during the holidays and such?

Every bar seems to overlook working from X temporarily on vacation, etc. while your legitimate permanent address is in the state, but it’s just not the same to actually move out of state and continue practicing as though you still live in New York.

What about living in Connecticut or New Jersey and being barred in NY? Or living in Maryland or Virginia and barred in D.C.? Aren’t those instances of prolonged working in a state in which you aren’t barred?

It’s probably closer. But those circumstances also likely involve people living in Arlington and coming into DC to work in a DC office. Their work from home (nights, weekends, the occasional WFH day) is incidental to their work in the office building. It would be different for a DC barred, DC firm, DC resident associate to move out to the suburbs in MD and VA in order to work from home indefinitely. And it *might* be different enough for the bar association to take note of it. Committing UPL and getting caught for UPL are two different things.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

I'd just be careful about potential UPL by working in a state in which you are not licensed.

Is this really an issue? What about when people work remotely during the holidays and such?

Every bar seems to overlook working from X temporarily on vacation, etc. while your legitimate permanent address is in the state, but it’s just not the same to actually move out of state and continue practicing as though you still live in New York.

What about living in Connecticut or New Jersey and being barred in NY? Or living in Maryland or Virginia and barred in D.C.? Aren’t those instances of prolonged working in a state in which you aren’t barred?

It’s probably closer. But those circumstances also likely involve people living in Arlington and coming into DC to work in a DC office. Their work from home (nights, weekends, the occasional WFH day) is incidental to their work in the office building. It would be different for a DC barred, DC firm, DC resident associate to move out to the suburbs in MD and VA in order to work from home indefinitely. And it *might* be different enough for the bar association to take note of it. Committing UPL and getting caught for UPL are two different things.

No state bar is ever going to sanction someone barred in State X who works for a firm with an office in State X and doesn't work on anything governed by Not State X or hang a shingle in Not State X; I don't care if they work full time out of the Disney Cruise business center. No one has ever been sanctioned for anything like that and telling OP to waste time or money planning for it because the rules are so dogshittily vague that it's theoretically possible is pointlessly pedantic.

[Anonymous User]

With apologies for hijacking the thread, has anyone had to renew their lease in NYC since COVID and if so have landlords/rental agencies been accommodating? We are due to renew in September. I would love to be able to transition to a month to month lease and/or get a slight discount on rent or rent freeze. If they try to raise our rent I might have to look elsewhere out of principle.

[Anonymous User]

I'd just be careful about potential UPL by working in a state in which you are not licensed.

Is this really an issue? What about when people work remotely during the holidays and such?

Every bar seems to overlook working from X temporarily on vacation, etc. while your legitimate permanent address is in the state, but it’s just not the same to actually move out of state and continue practicing as though you still live in New York.

What about living in Connecticut or New Jersey and being barred in NY? Or living in Maryland or Virginia and barred in D.C.? Aren’t those instances of prolonged working in a state in which you aren’t barred?

It’s probably closer. But those circumstances also likely involve people living in Arlington and coming into DC to work in a DC office. Their work from home (nights, weekends, the occasional WFH day) is incidental to their work in the office building. It would be different for a DC barred, DC firm, DC resident associate to move out to the suburbs in MD and VA in order to work from home indefinitely. And it *might* be different enough for the bar association to take note of it. Committing UPL and getting caught for UPL are two different things.

No state bar is ever going to sanction someone barred in State X who works for a firm with an office in State X and doesn't work on anything governed by Not State X or hang a shingle in Not State X; I don't care if they work full time out of the Disney Cruise business center. No one has ever been sanctioned for anything like that and telling OP to waste time or money planning for it because the rules are so dogshittily vague that it's theoretically possible is pointlessly pedantic.

Agree totally with this (but anon bc i'm too much of a bitch to say so openly). My old NYC firm made us report where we worked for tax purposes though. I don't think anyone bothered when working from home if they lived in NJ or something (I don't personally know, i lived in nyc), but you were supposed to do it while traveling especially.

Despite this system, nobody worried about UPL, even though we were leaving a record of all the UPL we were doing (if that counts, which it doesn't) for tax purposes.

[Anonymous User]

With apologies for hijacking the thread, has anyone had to renew their lease in NYC since COVID and if so have landlords/rental agencies been accommodating? We are due to renew in September. I would love to be able to transition to a month to month lease and/or get a slight discount on rent or rent freeze. If they try to raise our rent I might have to look elsewhere out of principle.

Yeah, my apartment is managed by Rose and they agreed to hold my rent flat on year-long lease and also will allow me to cancel the lease within the first three months. I know someone who rents from Related who got a similar deal. If the big landlords are doing this, I'd expect the small landlords (who are really feeling the heat) are even more willing to do whatever it takes to keep someone in the apartment.

My understanding is that conditions of the mortgages for these buildings often makes it tough to reduce the face amount of rent or truly have a month-to-month, but I'd ask for a concession of at least one free month in exchange for a renewal. Maybe start with two free months and let them bargain you down. I unfortunately told them I'm planning to leave the city within the next few months which limited my ability to negotiate for this, otherwise I'd have tried it.

[anon because my firm doesn't know I'm moving yet.]

[hellolawschool]

I opted not to renew my lease in NYC (ending 5/31/2020). I attempted to negotiate a rent reduction with my landlord, but the best they could offer was allowing me to delay our decision to renew. Presumably, that meant I could continue to pay the current rental rate on a month-to-month basis. Since I've been living at my parents' house since mid-March, I decided to end the lease, move my stuff to storage and save on rent for the time being.

[boredtodeath]

I just went through this. I ended up renewing on a lease expiring at the end of June. Landlord couldn't offer month-to-month because unit is rent-stabilized (not sure if this is true or not, but didn't bother to research it). Didn't ask about concessions but I don't think they would have budged as I see other similar units in my building currently up for rent at higher prices than I pay.

I think the analysis really depends on how long we will be working remotely and what the city looks like over the next few months. Also depends what you value personally (do you have friends or family that are remaining in the city, etc) and how much you're paying in rent. FWIW I think we'll probably be working remotely through the end of the year, but I didn't want to lose my apartment and deal with the hassle and cost of moving twice + putting all my possessions into storage if the city is back to some semblance of normalcy by September/October.