How many other restructuring associates hitting 400 this month? Forum

[cheaptilts]

What is it like to work at Weil and Kirkland bankruptcy? Aren’t all of folks trying to get into like a little more sane practices? Like DLA?

You can’t make an extra $6,000 for an additional 1200 hours billed at a place like DLA.

Who would take that?

[jarofsoup]

What is it like to work at Weil and Kirkland bankruptcy? Aren’t all of folks trying to get into like a little more sane practices? Like DLA?

You can’t make an extra $6,000 for an additional 1200 hours billed at a place like DLA.

Who would take that?

Wait did you say $6,000!! The firm is so generous when you bring in a million extra and they give you a weeks pay.

[Anonymous User]

The hostility in this thread is very odd. Nobody likes working these kind of hours, but its not like this is normal or close to normal. If things stay like this, yes, I suspect attrition is going to be very high.

[LBJ's Hair]

The hostility in this thread is very odd. Nobody likes working these kind of hours, but its not like this is normal or close to normal. If things stay like this, yes, I suspect attrition is going to be very high.

they're locked in tiny apartments working 20 hour days for no additional pay. of course they're pissed lol

[stoopkid13]

What is it like to work at Weil and Kirkland bankruptcy? Aren’t all of folks trying to get into like a little more sane practices? Like DLA?

You can’t make an extra $6,000 for an additional 1200 hours billed at a place like DLA.

Who would take that?

I mean, you can't at a place like Weil either lol

[Anonymous User]

What is it like to work at Weil and Kirkland bankruptcy? Aren’t all of folks trying to get into like a little more sane practices? Like DLA?

You can’t make an extra $6,000 for an additional 1200 hours billed at a place like DLA.

Who would take that?

I mean, you can't at a place like Weil either lol

Yup, weil doesn’t give above market bonuses even to its crazy high billing BFR associates

[Anonymous User]

The hostility in this thread is very odd. Nobody likes working these kind of hours, but its not like this is normal or close to normal. If things stay like this, yes, I suspect attrition is going to be very high.

Yeah I don’t get it either. I started the thread more as a complaint to anything else, and people get personally offended at my high hours. Only on tls

[jarofsoup]

The hostility in this thread is very odd. Nobody likes working these kind of hours, but its not like this is normal or close to normal. If things stay like this, yes, I suspect attrition is going to be very high.

Yeah I don’t get it either. I started the thread more as a complaint to anything else, and people get personally offended at my high hours. Only on tls

I am not offended for the record. But seems hellish. Are you at Kirkland or Weil?

[Anonymous User]

Used to be - this crisis is eroding their market share. Skadden is getting deals, Paul Weiss, hell even white and case just filed a 25 billion liabilities chapter 11

[Anonymous User]

Anon KE bk associate again. Not sure why people above are anon, but w/e.

Really don't get attacking people saying they are busy, but hope you are well.

I think ppl are rustled because, at least IMO, it is very unlikely that ppl are doing 400 hour months legitimately -- I'm saying this as a KE corp associate who has done way too many 300+ months. I may work from 8 to midnight one day, but I am probably only billing 12-14 hours that day as that is probably an honest reflection of properly billable time -- my guess is that someone billing 400 hours is billing 16 hours for a day like that. Moreover, I know there have been complaints re these phone calls w/ advisors where like 20 KE associates are on the call, billing, even though there is no reason for them to be on the call. My guess is that there are a lot of K&E bankruptcy associates billing an hour for a call + the work they did during that hour while having the call on in the background.

You may be an outlier and very well have legitimately billed 400 hours in a month, and if that is the case I am truly sorry for you because if you are doing that honestly than I know your life is nothing more than waking up, working, then sleeping for 4 hours. But ppl are irritated in this thread because someone saying they billed 400 hours is more likely unethically billing.

[jarofsoup]

If you have to travel internationally you can hit that.

[Anonymous User]

I think ppl are rustled because, at least IMO, it is very unlikely that ppl are doing 400 hour months legitimately -- I'm saying this as a KE corp associate who has done way too many 300+ months. I may work from 8 to midnight one day, but I am probably only billing 12-14 hours that day as that is probably an honest reflection of properly billable time -- my guess is that someone billing 400 hours is billing 16 hours for a day like that. Moreover, I know there have been complaints re these phone calls w/ advisors where like 20 KE associates are on the call, billing, even though there is no reason for them to be on the call. My guess is that there are a lot of K&E bankruptcy associates billing an hour for a call + the work they did during that hour while having the call on in the background.

I'm anonymous because I'm going to K&E this fall and don't want to be even seen publicly discussing the fact that K&E associates might bill unethically.

Why would an associate do this (asked not as a challenge but as a genuine inquiry)? Don't they know that this would eventually get found out when in-house counsel gets the bill, and that the time would just be written off? Even if they can count in toward their billable hours, those hours won't be realized, and partners would just get ticked off having to strike a bunch of hours off the bill at the end of the year. Even if their (the associates') billable hours look higher, it's unlikely to generate a higher bonus or decrease their chance of being laid off. That's my logic.

Alternatively, I'm thinking that maybe associates know this, but simply being on the call gives the managers a chance to argue that some portion of the associates on the call are actually necessary so there's a chance that managers might collect on some portion of the 20 associates' time, and the associates gets credit for the hours billed at the end of the year for at least trying to be on the call instead of not being on the call at all since it's all the same if they're not paying attention and just doing work in the background? That also sounds logical.

Lastly, wouldn't someone send out an email at some point telling people who are doing that to knock if off, or is it such a basic tenet of professional responsibility that the firm doesn't see it as necessary or possibly condescending in that the people who don't do it will be offended and the people who do do it won't stop because of an email? Alternatives, maybe the firm isn't incentivized to tell people to opt-out of chances at hours that could possibly be collected on?

All of the above sounds vaguely reasonable to me. I can't figure out what the mechanics going on behind this phenomenon is. An explanation would be helpful. Thanks.

[Anonymous User]

Anon KE bk associate again. Not sure why people above are anon, but w/e.

Really don't get attacking people saying they are busy, but hope you are well.

I think ppl are rustled because, at least IMO, it is very unlikely that ppl are doing 400 hour months legitimately -- I'm saying this as a KE corp associate who has done way too many 300+ months. I may work from 8 to midnight one day, but I am probably only billing 12-14 hours that day as that is probably an honest reflection of properly billable time -- my guess is that someone billing 400 hours is billing 16 hours for a day like that. Moreover, I know there have been complaints re these phone calls w/ advisors where like 20 KE associates are on the call, billing, even though there is no reason for them to be on the call. My guess is that there are a lot of K&E bankruptcy associates billing an hour for a call + the work they did during that hour while having the call on in the background.

You may be an outlier and very well have legitimately billed 400 hours in a month, and if that is the case I am truly sorry for you because if you are doing that honestly than I know your life is nothing more than waking up, working, then sleeping for 4 hours. But ppl are irritated in this thread because someone saying they billed 400 hours is more likely unethically billing.

Nobody thinks billing for a call and the work you are actually doing is ok. Bankruptcy is literally just this crazy right now.

[jarofsoup]

Relatively sure that partners do this all the time. Like they will be on call send 10 emails bill a bunch of .1s.

Not saying it’s right. To be clear.

[Anonymous User]

Anon KE bk associate again. Not sure why people above are anon, but w/e.

Really don't get attacking people saying they are busy, but hope you are well.

I think ppl are rustled because, at least IMO, it is very unlikely that ppl are doing 400 hour months legitimately -- I'm saying this as a KE corp associate who has done way too many 300+ months. I may work from 8 to midnight one day, but I am probably only billing 12-14 hours that day as that is probably an honest reflection of properly billable time -- my guess is that someone billing 400 hours is billing 16 hours for a day like that. Moreover, I know there have been complaints re these phone calls w/ advisors where like 20 KE associates are on the call, billing, even though there is no reason for them to be on the call. My guess is that there are a lot of K&E bankruptcy associates billing an hour for a call + the work they did during that hour while having the call on in the background.

You may be an outlier and very well have legitimately billed 400 hours in a month, and if that is the case I am truly sorry for you because if you are doing that honestly than I know your life is nothing more than waking up, working, then sleeping for 4 hours. But ppl are irritated in this thread because someone saying they billed 400 hours is more likely unethically billing.

OP here - I will refrain from responding to you how I want to respond to you for accusing me of being unethical because it will probably get me banned. I’ll just point out that you are clearly thinking of this backwards. There’s literally zero incentive for me to inflate my hours from 350 to 400. Zero. Tons of people unethically Bill, and in my experience it is much more frequently done by people with lower hours due to the pressures to increase their billables. That’s an actual incentive to unethically bill and is common sense.

I accept your apology in advance.

[lawlo]

Restructuring midlevel here at one of the top shops - currently sitting at 195 billables through day 14 of 31 of this month. Work from home quarantine makes this possible because there’s no commuting, getting dressed for work, etc. just roll out of bed after a few hours of sleep and start grinding away the billables.

So how many other restructuring associates are gonna hit 400 this month with me? No fluff or bs padding of hours counts

OP or other busy BK people - - what is your schedule like? Would love a rundown on how your day looks and also how you have enough energy to work for so long with little sleep.

[LBJ's Hair]

and also how you have enough energy to work for so long with little sleep.

Can answer this one -- fear

[Anonymous User]

Restructuring midlevel here at one of the top shops - currently sitting at 195 billables through day 14 of 31 of this month. Work from home quarantine makes this possible because there’s no commuting, getting dressed for work, etc. just roll out of bed after a few hours of sleep and start grinding away the billables.

So how many other restructuring associates are gonna hit 400 this month with me? No fluff or bs padding of hours counts

OP or other busy BK people - - what is your schedule like? Would love a rundown on how your day looks and also how you have enough energy to work for so long with little sleep.

OP here - my days are pretty standard at this point - wake up between 8 and 8:30 to about 50 unread emails, spend next couple hours trying to catch up, and then all day taking calls, doing emails, and working on documents. Go to bed between 3-4 and repeat the next day. During those waking hours I’m billing at 95% efficiency since I don’t have to commute, make myself look presentable, etc. it’s just roll out of bed and spend every waking minute grinding out stuff that has to get done and is very time sensitive.

[jarofsoup]

I am guessing that you aren’t married and don’t have kids because you could not work like that if you did.

You need to cut it back a bit. You must feel like you have the flu every day and are risking your health.

Are you at Kirkland? Like what hellish place do you work...

[Anonymous User]

I am guessing that you aren’t married and don’t have kids because you could not work like that if you did.

You need to cut it back a bit. You must feel like you have the flu every day and are risking your health.

Are you at Kirkland? Like what hellish place do you work...

Yeah, I do wonder what would happen if OP had kids. How would an associate in that situation manage this? Is there even room to push back when the group is so busy?

[Excellent117]

If I ever had a 400-hour month, I would quit on the spot.

[Anonymous User]

Restructuring midlevel here at one of the top shops - currently sitting at 195 billables through day 14 of 31 of this month. Work from home quarantine makes this possible because there’s no commuting, getting dressed for work, etc. just roll out of bed after a few hours of sleep and start grinding away the billables.

So how many other restructuring associates are gonna hit 400 this month with me? No fluff or bs padding of hours counts

OP or other busy BK people - - what is your schedule like? Would love a rundown on how your day looks and also how you have enough energy to work for so long with little sleep.

BK midlevel, working at home with kids, spouse is still working. I wake up at 545, try to get in a quick workout while clearing out my inbox from overnight. Take a quick shower, play with the kids for a bit, try to do a bit of e-learning (lol), and then go to my office to about 50 unread emails, never really catch up, have partners bitching at all day about things. Calls all fucking day, commonly two at a time, sometimes three (I use the one I'm actually listening to for billing purposes), try to get other work done at the same time and in between. Stop at 6 to eat, play with kids, chill for a bit, then back on my comp from 8 until 11-12, depending on how bad things are.

That's me setting boundaries right now, and I'm still crushed and never feel like I'm caught up--I'm senior enough that I can delegate to somewhat competent mids/juniors. Billing efficiency is close to 100% b/c I have so much to do, but actual work efficiency has probably been cut in half.

[The Lsat Airbender]

Billing efficiency is close to 100% b/c I have so much to do, but actual work efficiency has probably been cut in half.

*pathern's mouth waters*

[lawlo]

Restructuring midlevel here at one of the top shops - currently sitting at 195 billables through day 14 of 31 of this month. Work from home quarantine makes this possible because there’s no commuting, getting dressed for work, etc. just roll out of bed after a few hours of sleep and start grinding away the billables.

So how many other restructuring associates are gonna hit 400 this month with me? No fluff or bs padding of hours counts

OP or other busy BK people - - what is your schedule like? Would love a rundown on how your day looks and also how you have enough energy to work for so long with little sleep.

BK midlevel, working at home with kids, spouse is still working. I wake up at 545, try to get in a quick workout while clearing out my inbox from overnight. Take a quick shower, play with the kids for a bit, try to do a bit of e-learning (lol), and then go to my office to about 50 unread emails, never really catch up, have partners bitching at all day about things. Calls all fucking day, commonly two at a time, sometimes three (I use the one I'm actually listening to for billing purposes), try to get other work done at the same time and in between. Stop at 6 to eat, play with kids, chill for a bit, then back on my comp from 8 until 11-12, depending on how bad things are.

That's me setting boundaries right now, and I'm still crushed and never feel like I'm caught up--I'm senior enough that I can delegate to somewhat competent mids/juniors. Billing efficiency is close to 100% b/c I have so much to do, but actual work efficiency has probably been cut in half.

Is this how it often is in BK work? A not insignificant number of pre-covid high-hours horror stories involved BK work.
Further, why do you all do BK? Was it just that it was the job available? Seems unlikely considering those at top shops likely had other options at some point, or atleast the chance to transfer practice areas.

Just find it hard to understand. Very few people on earth work as hard or have ever worked as hard as many of you are right now. Nevertheless, I respect the drive you all have and I would do the same to provide for my fam.

[Sackboy]

Further, why do you all do BK? Was it just that it was the job available? Seems unlikely considering those at top shops likely had other options at some point, or atleast the chance to transfer practice areas.

This is the question I always wanted to know the answer to. I work in a practice that is notorious for having bad hours compared to almost every other practice area, but they pale in comparison to what the folks on our BK team do. BK always intrigued me, but I just can't imagine that many hours. Are you all just S tier masochists?