Prediction: When will NYC lawyers return to the office? Forum

[Joachim2017]

Please consider sending a tip to ATL so that other firms will start to feel the pressure to provide certainty to their associates.

Lol, getting their cage rattled by ATL is near the bottom of the list of considerations for firms planning when to phase out of WFH

Yup. It's a shame, too, because ATL could have been somewhat effective. But they squandered the chance. When ATL was more judicious/insightful in its own editorials, it had a little more capacity for influence and accountability. But it's now clearly become a hyper-partisan blog where 2-3 people (I don't know if they were ever actually successful lawyers?) reflexively pontificate with little actual reflection or critical thinking. A few firms will still throw them a bone because younger associates tend to be liberals and be influenced by ATL until they get out into the real world, but it's mostly PR at this point. After Lat left, most of us stopped reading and now occasionally stop by. At least Elie Mystal was entertaining!

[Anonymous User]

Please consider sending a tip to ATL so that other firms will start to feel the pressure to provide certainty to their associates.

Lol, getting their cage rattled by ATL is near the bottom of the list of considerations for firms planning when to phase out of WFH

Yup. It's a shame, too, because ATL could have been somewhat effective. But they squandered the chance. When ATL was more judicious/insightful in its own editorials, it had a little more capacity for influence and accountability. But it's now clearly become a hyper-partisan blog where 2-3 people (I don't know if they were ever actually successful lawyers?) reflexively pontificate with little actual reflection or critical thinking. A few firms will still throw them a bone because younger associates tend to be liberals and be influenced by ATL until they get out into the real world, but it's mostly PR at this point. After Lat left, most of us stopped reading and now occasionally stop by. At least Elie Mystal was entertaining!

Removing the comment section really ended ATL for me.

[Anonymous User]

My V50 just announced work from home is extended until January 31, 2021 at the earliest. The messaging from firm leadership is that we have been doing quite well the past few months and that they are re-thinking our real estate strategy.

[Anonymous User]

Is that in NYC? My NYC V10 hasn’t said anything yet, but they did say business has been good and workflow better than expected (we still making $$$).

[Anonymous User]

My V20 said today that it's prepping to have people return Jan 2021 and no one will be required to return before then. This from a non-NYC major market, but the firm said it'll apply across all US offices. They said business has been better than expected and productivity hasn't been down since starting WFH.

[Anonymous User]

My V20 said today that it's prepping to have people return Jan 2021 and no one will be required to return before then. This from a non-NYC major market, but the firm said it'll apply across all US offices. They said business has been better than expected and productivity hasn't been down since starting WFH.

Was on a call last week where the partners were tossing around return dates, some said June and some said January, but January sounds more likely.

Does anyone have any actual insight into partner level discussions about the "new normal" or are we all just associate speculating?

There seem to be three camps imo--(1) boomer partners who are deathly scared of the virus, don't want to come back (2) boomer partners who like working remotely and don't really want to have to come back to the city, (3) senior associates or junior partners who have physically moved to locations that are in a non-commuting distances and (4) partners who like coming into the office and don't trust associates to work remotely and also like having a bunch of associates sniffing their ass in person all day.

Imo, (1) will fall away after a vaccine comes out. But there's a lot of (2) and (3).

There are lots of articles about the "wealthy" not wanting to come back to NYC, not sure how much this overlaps with boomer partners. If they don't come back we won't have to either.

[Anonymous User]

My V20 said today that it's prepping to have people return Jan 2021 and no one will be required to return before then. This from a non-NYC major market, but the firm said it'll apply across all US offices. They said business has been better than expected and productivity hasn't been down since starting WFH.

Was on a call last week where the partners were tossing around return dates, some said June and some said January, but January sounds more likely.

Does anyone have any actual insight into partner level discussions about the "new normal" or are we all just associate speculating?

The problem with these discussions (whether among the partners or among associates speculating about the likeliest decision) is that nobody can reliably predict the situation in January. The return to office planning thus far has mainly consisted of picking an arbitrary date far enough into the future to seem like things “should” be okay by then, approaching that date and realizing things are not going to be okay, then shifting attention to another arbitrary future date. First it was Memorial Day, then September, now January. Everyone understandably wants clarity, but in a situation as uncertain as this, nobody (including the partners) can credibly commit to a future plan. So we’re condemned to basically pointless speculation.

[Anonymous User]

My V20 said today that it's prepping to have people return Jan 2021 and no one will be required to return before then. This from a non-NYC major market, but the firm said it'll apply across all US offices. They said business has been better than expected and productivity hasn't been down since starting WFH.

Was on a call last week where the partners were tossing around return dates, some said June and some said January, but January sounds more likely.

Does anyone have any actual insight into partner level discussions about the "new normal" or are we all just associate speculating?

The problem with these discussions (whether among the partners or among associates speculating about the likeliest decision) is that nobody can reliably predict the situation in January. The return to office planning thus far has mainly consisted of picking an arbitrary date far enough into the future to seem like things “should” be okay by then, approaching that date and realizing things are not going to be okay, then shifting attention to another arbitrary future date. First it was Memorial Day, then September, now January. Everyone understandably wants clarity, but in a situation as uncertain as this, nobody (including the partners) can credibly commit to a future plan. So we’re condemned to basically pointless speculation.

I heard that partners at my firm (V100) were basically not expecting anyone to be back in the office until January 2021, but that was a couple of months ago, and more recently I've heard next summer (influenced by Google's decision, obviously). At this point, we haven't even made it into the second phase of our return to the office plan (two months later...), and it doesn't look like we're going to get there any time soon. Honestly, I think if we're out of the office for a YEAR it will be very difficult to get people to come back and sit at their desk for 12 hours a day. Everyone has a long commute, and I doubt folks are suddenly going to want to make their lives measurably worse by going back to the office every single day, and yes, that includes the types of demanding partners who are sneaking back into closed offices. Give them another couple of months living in their lake houses and they may decide that face time is over rated.

[Anonymous User]

PW told us that folks have the option of coming into office starting August 10 but that we should just continue to work remotely if we can given all the in-office restrictions. Internally i don't think any of the partners or associates expect to return to office until sometime 2021

[Anonymous User]

At my firm (V10), general expectation is that attorneys won't be returning until next year. Recently, our managing partner has made some comments that seem to suggest attorneys will have the choice to work from home until there is a vaccine.

Last update we got was that our production is slightly under budget but still up compared to last year (probably due more to rate increases as opposed to an actual increase in billable hours).

[Anonymous User]

Had a town hall this week at my v10 firm and they are expecting to phase people into the office in January. Does anyone think this will actually happen unless a vaccine is out?

[Anonymous User]

Had a town hall this week at my v10 firm and they are expecting to phase people into the office in January. Does anyone think this will actually happen unless a vaccine is out?

No, at least not on a mandatory basis. Imagine the headlines if a young associate dies from the rona because his boomer law firm forced him to ride public transport and come into an office when being indoors with multiple people is the main way COVID is transmitted.

I also think we are going to have a nasty second wave this winter that might scare people.

[Anonymous User]

Had a town hall this week at my v10 firm and they are expecting to phase people into the office in January. Does anyone think this will actually happen unless a vaccine is out?

No, at least not on a mandatory basis. Imagine the headlines if a young associate dies from the rona because his boomer law firm forced him to ride public transport and come into an office when being indoors with multiple people is the main way COVID is transmitted.

I also think we are going to have a nasty second wave this winter that might scare people.

Word. If my firm wants to pay for me to take a car to and from work so I can avoid public transport I’d consider going back to the office. But they won’t pay for that so I won’t.

[TatteredDignity]

Had a town hall this week at my v10 firm and they are expecting to phase people into the office in January. Does anyone think this will actually happen unless a vaccine is out?

No, at least not on a mandatory basis. Imagine the headlines if a young associate dies from the rona because his boomer law firm forced him to ride public transport and come into an office when being indoors with multiple people is the main way COVID is transmitted.

I also think we are going to have a nasty second wave this winter that might scare people.

Word. If my firm wants to pay for me to take a car to and from work so I can avoid public transport I’d consider going back to the office. But they won’t pay for that so I won’t.

Also you could get infected by your driver.

[cisscum]

Had a town hall this week at my v10 firm and they are expecting to phase people into the office in January. Does anyone think this will actually happen unless a vaccine is out?

No, at least not on a mandatory basis. Imagine the headlines if a young associate dies from the rona because his boomer law firm forced him to ride public transport and come into an office when being indoors with multiple people is the main way COVID is transmitted.

I also think we are going to have a nasty second wave this winter that might scare people.

If there's a second wave I agree with you. Without one, I think firms are eager to get people back into the office. Finance is already doing it

[Anonymous User]

Had a town hall this week at my v10 firm and they are expecting to phase people into the office in January. Does anyone think this will actually happen unless a vaccine is out?

No, at least not on a mandatory basis. Imagine the headlines if a young associate dies from the rona because his boomer law firm forced him to ride public transport and come into an office when being indoors with multiple people is the main way COVID is transmitted.

I also think we are going to have a nasty second wave this winter that might scare people.

If there's a second wave I agree with you. Without one, I think firms are eager to get people back into the office. Finance is already doing it

On a mandatory basis? I know my firm allows people to pop in once in awhile, but people are still staying home 99% of the time. I just can't see firms forcing people to risk their lives when indoor transmission is so common. It seems like a huge liability. Especially for firms that have some people sharing offices.

Also, didn't JPMorgan go back to the office and then go back to remote work because of an outbreak?

[purplegoldtornado]

Predictions for summer associate programs?

[Anonymous User]

Had a town hall this week at my v10 firm and they are expecting to phase people into the office in January. Does anyone think this will actually happen unless a vaccine is out?

No, at least not on a mandatory basis. Imagine the headlines if a young associate dies from the rona because his boomer law firm forced him to ride public transport and come into an office when being indoors with multiple people is the main way COVID is transmitted.

I also think we are going to have a nasty second wave this winter that might scare people.

If there's a second wave I agree with you. Without one, I think firms are eager to get people back into the office. Finance is already doing it

On a mandatory basis? I know my firm allows people to pop in once in awhile, but people are still staying home 99% of the time. I just can't see firms forcing people to risk their lives when indoor transmission is so common. It seems like a huge liability. Especially for firms that have some people sharing offices.

Also, didn't JPMorgan go back to the office and then go back to remote work because of an outbreak?

People who are vulnerable or at risk can get permission to stay home. Otherwise, everyone will have to come in. That's my prediction, unless there is a general second wave in the city, which is certainly possible.

[Anonymous User]

Had a town hall this week at my v10 firm and they are expecting to phase people into the office in January. Does anyone think this will actually happen unless a vaccine is out?

No, at least not on a mandatory basis. Imagine the headlines if a young associate dies from the rona because his boomer law firm forced him to ride public transport and come into an office when being indoors with multiple people is the main way COVID is transmitted.

I also think we are going to have a nasty second wave this winter that might scare people.

If there's a second wave I agree with you. Without one, I think firms are eager to get people back into the office. Finance is already doing it

On a mandatory basis? I know my firm allows people to pop in once in awhile, but people are still staying home 99% of the time. I just can't see firms forcing people to risk their lives when indoor transmission is so common. It seems like a huge liability. Especially for firms that have some people sharing offices.

Also, didn't JPMorgan go back to the office and then go back to remote work because of an outbreak?

People who are vulnerable or at risk can get permission to stay home. Otherwise, everyone will have to come in. That's my prediction, unless there is a general second wave in the city, which is certainly possible.

I feel like it would have to be on a rotating basis. Don't most firms have first and second years share offices in NYC (I'm in a major non-NYC market)? That seems like a recipe for disaster if the firms go to 100% capacity.

I am genuinely very scared of COVID and have a SO who is at-risk so if my firm forces me back in before a vaccine.. it'll be a tough call. I don't know what I'd do.

[Anonymous User]

Had a town hall this week at my v10 firm and they are expecting to phase people into the office in January. Does anyone think this will actually happen unless a vaccine is out?

No, at least not on a mandatory basis. Imagine the headlines if a young associate dies from the rona because his boomer law firm forced him to ride public transport and come into an office when being indoors with multiple people is the main way COVID is transmitted.

I also think we are going to have a nasty second wave this winter that might scare people.

If there's a second wave I agree with you. Without one, I think firms are eager to get people back into the office. Finance is already doing it

On a mandatory basis? I know my firm allows people to pop in once in awhile, but people are still staying home 99% of the time. I just can't see firms forcing people to risk their lives when indoor transmission is so common. It seems like a huge liability. Especially for firms that have some people sharing offices.

Also, didn't JPMorgan go back to the office and then go back to remote work because of an outbreak?

People who are vulnerable or at risk can get permission to stay home. Otherwise, everyone will have to come in. That's my prediction, unless there is a general second wave in the city, which is certainly possible.

I feel like it would have to be on a rotating basis. Don't most firms have first and second years share offices in NYC (I'm in a major non-NYC market)? That seems like a recipe for disaster if the firms go to 100% capacity.

I am genuinely very scared of COVID and have a SO who is at-risk so if my firm forces me back in before a vaccine.. it'll be a tough call. I don't know what I'd do.

Incoming first year. My firm has gone on the record saying everyone will have their own office. Not sure if this means we will be back in the office come January but they are at least covering their bases this way.

[Anonymous User]

Had a town hall this week at my v10 firm and they are expecting to phase people into the office in January. Does anyone think this will actually happen unless a vaccine is out?

No, at least not on a mandatory basis. Imagine the headlines if a young associate dies from the rona because his boomer law firm forced him to ride public transport and come into an office when being indoors with multiple people is the main way COVID is transmitted.

I also think we are going to have a nasty second wave this winter that might scare people.

If there's a second wave I agree with you. Without one, I think firms are eager to get people back into the office. Finance is already doing it

On a mandatory basis? I know my firm allows people to pop in once in awhile, but people are still staying home 99% of the time. I just can't see firms forcing people to risk their lives when indoor transmission is so common. It seems like a huge liability. Especially for firms that have some people sharing offices.

Also, didn't JPMorgan go back to the office and then go back to remote work because of an outbreak?

People who are vulnerable or at risk can get permission to stay home. Otherwise, everyone will have to come in. That's my prediction, unless there is a general second wave in the city, which is certainly possible.

I feel like it would have to be on a rotating basis. Don't most firms have first and second years share offices in NYC (I'm in a major non-NYC market)? That seems like a recipe for disaster if the firms go to 100% capacity.

I am genuinely very scared of COVID and have a SO who is at-risk so if my firm forces me back in before a vaccine.. it'll be a tough call. I don't know what I'd do.

I'm sure you'd be able to get an exception. Most people aren't in your situation though.

And yeah, most firms will start with rotations, but that still means mandatory attendance for some people starting in January.

I hope I'm wrong because I don't want to go back.

[Anonymous User]

Had a town hall this week at my v10 firm and they are expecting to phase people into the office in January. Does anyone think this will actually happen unless a vaccine is out?

No, at least not on a mandatory basis. Imagine the headlines if a young associate dies from the rona because his boomer law firm forced him to ride public transport and come into an office when being indoors with multiple people is the main way COVID is transmitted.

I also think we are going to have a nasty second wave this winter that might scare people.

If there's a second wave I agree with you. Without one, I think firms are eager to get people back into the office. Finance is already doing it

On a mandatory basis? I know my firm allows people to pop in once in awhile, but people are still staying home 99% of the time. I just can't see firms forcing people to risk their lives when indoor transmission is so common. It seems like a huge liability. Especially for firms that have some people sharing offices.

Also, didn't JPMorgan go back to the office and then go back to remote work because of an outbreak?

People who are vulnerable or at risk can get permission to stay home. Otherwise, everyone will have to come in. That's my prediction, unless there is a general second wave in the city, which is certainly possible.

I feel like it would have to be on a rotating basis. Don't most firms have first and second years share offices in NYC (I'm in a major non-NYC market)? That seems like a recipe for disaster if the firms go to 100% capacity.

I am genuinely very scared of COVID and have a SO who is at-risk so if my firm forces me back in before a vaccine.. it'll be a tough call. I don't know what I'd do.

I'm sure you'd be able to get an exception. Most people aren't in your situation though.

And yeah, most firms will start with rotations, but that still means mandatory attendance for some people starting in January.

I hope I'm wrong because I don't want to go back.

I hope you are wrong, too. I really don’t want to have to choose between my career and my SO’s health. Sigh.

[Anonymous User]

My V40 is on some of the top floors of a very tall building. Even with separate elevator banks, we've been told that lobby and elevator capacity will be a major issue and reason alone to not require people to come in en masse. Entering and leaving the building could take a long time and be a terribly inefficient process. This issue is not unique to my firm. Unofficial word from those close to firm leadership is that they don't anticipate a significant portion of our office to return before next summer.

[ghostoftraynor]

My V40 is on some of the top floors of a very tall building. Even with separate elevator banks, we've been told that lobby and elevator capacity will be a major issue and reason alone to not require people to come in en masse. Entering and leaving the building could take a long time and be a terribly inefficient process. This issue is not unique to my firm. Unofficial word from those close to firm leadership is that they don't anticipate a significant portion of our office to return before next summer.

I don't see mandatory attendance becoming a thing until a vaccine is readily available for the population. So, realistically, probably late summer/early fall next year.

There is too much downside and not a lot of upside forcing people to come in earlier than that. There are a few marginal benefits working face to face in an office, but that's all basically lost anyways if people have to socially distance and mask.

[jarofsoup]

They cannot really force you to come into the office. How are they going to do that? Fire you if you do not show up in a pandemic.

I get emails twice a week that there are infections in my building.