“Downgrade” firm to get more specific experience? Forum

[Anonymous User]

I work at a firm that pays very well, with market bonuses and great benefits. However, I just don’t love the niche practice area I am in. I’ve tried for almost a year to lateral to a peer-level firm in an area that is complementary to mine.

I have been interviewing with a firm that is objectively a “downgrade” from my current firm but it would give me the experience I would need to potentially get back to a well-paying firm. There’s obviously no guarantee of that happening, but it’s possible. The “downgrade” is still a V100 firm.

Should I just stick it out here until I find the right firm/position (which could take years at this point), or should I take the pay cut and leave now and hope that I’ll have the experience at the new firm to lateral again when I’m a mid/senior associate (which is somewhat more common in this practice area than most)?

[DiligentSage]

What practice groups are you hoping to hop between? And sounds like you're junior -- could you ask the partners in your desired group at your current firm for more work? Do you have an assignment coordinator or peer mentor you could reach out to?

Not saying that moving firms isn't necessarily the right move (especially if both firms otherwise pay market) if you really, really want a specific practice area but seems untoward to not exhaust internal options beforehand.

[Anonymous User]

What practice groups are you hoping to hop between? And sounds like you're junior -- could you ask the partners in your desired group at your current firm for more work? Do you have an assignment coordinator or peer mentor you could reach out to?

Not saying that moving firms isn't necessarily the right move (especially if both firms otherwise pay market) if you really, really want a specific practice area but seems untoward to not exhaust internal options beforehand.

I’m a midlevel, if that changes the calculus at all.

Don’t want to get too specific because it’s a relatively small practice area. But, generally, the area I want to go into is under the umbrella of the practice group. My firm just doesn’t have any attorneys who do that area (even though our site says they do).

So reaching out to others isn’t really going to help, unfortunately.

I‘ve been able to get screeners at peer firms but they want someone who is at my class year (or even a second year to be honest) to be able to manage deals, but, the specific portion of the deals they are really concerned about is where I am clearly lacking and no amount of fluff can make up for that.

My thought is that if I go to a smaller, lower-paying firm that still does that work, I may be able to lateral later or maybe stay if I enjoy it there.

[JusticeJackson]

I did this and I regret it. New firm hasn’t come through on any of the things promised when I was interviewing, and I get noticeably fewer solicitations to go in house/to high ranking firms/to go to prestigious government jobs now that I‘m at a much lower ranked V100.

[Anonymous User]

This is sort of similar to the route I followed. I came out of school and joined a V15 firm for no real reason other than it was the most prestigious firm that made me an offer (though I likely wouldn't have admitted it at the time). I was not placed into my desired practice group, and like many others, found myself very unhappy after a few years. I also didn't like the complete lack of substantive experience, lack of direct client contact, etc.

So I started looking into lateral moves to lower V100 firms. My primary goal was to break into my desired practice group. But the secondary goal was to really start developing as an actual lawyer via substantive experience and client contact. Many of the lower V100 firms are a bit more regional. And that can be a very good thing. If the matters are a bit smaller and not just massive class actions, you can play a much bigger part in determining strategy and executing that strategy. And when the clients are more regional, as opposed to the biggest companies in America, its easier to get closer to the client. My new firm really delivered on that front and I had more substantive experience in my first month than my previous 2 years at the V15 firm. There was a much greater focus on long-term associate development at my new firm, whereas you got the sense at my V15 firm that we were just cogs that would be replaced quick.

And making that "downgrade" didn't hurt me at all when it came time to look for in-house opportunities. I ended up getting multiple in-house offers, and ended up taking what is essentially a dream job. Speaking to the in-house lawyers who hired me, they said my direct client counseling experience and experience running my own matters was on of the main things that got me hired. So I think there is certainly a valid reason to "downgrade" to a lower V100, but make sure its a place where you will actually be getting what you desire and do your research beforehand.

[Sackboy]

I don't think you need to downgrade. Just wait for the right opportunities and keep applying. I know several folks that went from V50 to V20 and V10 while switching practice areas (generally to something related to their present practice area).

[Anonymous User]

I went the other direction, from a lower v100 to a higher v100 firm, and the substantive experience has been light and day. Higher compensation, of course, but the substantive experience at the higher V100 has been a joke. Non-existent, really. However, this is all highly dependent on the specific firms in question, so you should do your due diligence before moving. It’s not necessarily the case that the experience at the lower-ranked firm would be better. In my experience, it’s largely dependent on the specific partners/group you work for/in.

I joke when I say the most impressive feat by the higher-ranked firm is convincing clients to pay over $500 an hour for associates to perform secretarial pretend-work, but there’s some truth to that.

[Anonymous User]

Sort of similar. Went from a v60 to a litigation boutique after my first year. Now a 2-3 year. I went from actually being an overpriced secretary to arguing dispositive motions in federal court for cases over 500 million in possible recovery. How many 2-3 years get to do that at v anything?

So yeah, there can be good opportunities to “move down” the vault ranking or leave it all together.

[Anonymous User]

It sounds like you're not in litigation so i don't know how relevant my experience will be, but i left a V25 firm after billing 2750 and 2900 back-to-back years for a lower ranked V100 firm, where i actually got a good amount of experience appearing in court, drafting and arguing motions, handling my own cases, etc. Turned out to be a great decision, since i don't think there's any chance i would have landed a job at DOJ, where i eventually wanted to work at some point, without the experience that dropping rank allowed me to get. That said, not sure how advisable it is if your goal is to lateral back to a more highly ranked firm on par with where you're at now. I'd prob try to expand what you're doing at your firm as much as possible, assuming you like the place enough (read: it's bearable), stick out the current legal hiring depression, then start trying to lateral directly to a firm on par with your current one.

[Anonymous User]

Also downgraded V15 to V40 to change practice groups. At first, it was pretty rough — there‘s a partner who is a luddite and refuses to learn; he made a fool of himself in a matter against my old team and I got to hear about it from my friends. Then I found some people who knew what they were doing, and it’s been great since.