Ropes Career Associate Forum

[Anonymous User]

Currently an associate in a regulatory practice at a well-regarded boutique in a major city.

I’ve been trying to switch practices and now that coronavirus happened, that looks very unlikely.

I just saw that Ropes posted a career associate position for its PE group. It looks like it’ll only be due diligence, but I think it’ll at least help me switch over to a different practice group.

I know that these are generally staff attorney jobs. Does anyone know what the hours/pay/benefits are like? Also, are these jobs hard to get?

[nealric]

Currently an associate in a regulatory practice at a well-regarded boutique in a major city.

I’ve been trying to switch practices and now that coronavirus happened, that looks very unlikely.

I just saw that Ropes posted a career associate position for its PE group. It looks like it’ll only be due diligence, but I think it’ll at least help me switch over to a different practice group.

I know that these are generally staff attorney jobs. Does anyone know what the hours/pay/benefits are like? Also, are these jobs hard to get?

Not familiar with Ropes specifically, but I would avoid staff attorney type jobs, especially now. They tend to get poor quality work assignments and are often the first to go in a downturn. At most firms, these jobs go to folks who don't have the credentials to get biglaw and pay below first year associate no matter the years of experience. It won't help you change practices if you aren't regarded as a true associate. Ropes could be different than most firms on this, but I'd be quite certain of that before pulling the trigger.

[hangtime813]

Does anyone have information as to the comp for these types of positions?

[Anonymous User]

Can't speak to the career associate position, but as a former Ropes associate, I loved working there. Top of the market bonuses, great partners to work for, and I still stay in touch from the people in my class.

[Anonymous User]

Can't speak to the career associate position, but as a former Ropes associate, I loved working there. Top of the market bonuses, great partners to work for, and I still stay in touch from the people in my class.

Sorry to get sidetracked from OP, but which office were you in? I'm *hopefully* going to one of their satellite offices this summer, haven't been able to find too much information on what working at the firm is like outside of Boston.

[Anonymous User]

Can't speak to the career associate position, but as a former Ropes associate, I loved working there. Top of the market bonuses, great partners to work for, and I still stay in touch from the people in my class.

Sorry to get sidetracked from OP, but which office were you in? I'm *hopefully* going to one of their satellite offices this summer, haven't been able to find too much information on what working at the firm is like outside of Boston.

Experience is going to be a lot different in NY than Chicago or SV. NY is basically its own headquarters at this point (and has some tough personalities). Chicago is very different from Boston and NY and doesn't have a lot of the practice groups (Bankruptcy, Real Estate, Finance, L&E, Tax, Benefits) that the other larger offices have.

[Anonymous User]

Can't speak to the career associate position, but as a former Ropes associate, I loved working there. Top of the market bonuses, great partners to work for, and I still stay in touch from the people in my class.

Sorry to get sidetracked from OP, but which office were you in? I'm *hopefully* going to one of their satellite offices this summer, haven't been able to find too much information on what working at the firm is like outside of Boston.

Experience is going to be a lot different in NY than Chicago or SV. NY is basically its own headquarters at this point (and has some tough personalities). Chicago is very different from Boston and NY and doesn't have a lot of the practice groups (Bankruptcy, Real Estate, Finance, L&E, Tax, Benefits) that the other larger offices have.

I got the impression that a lot of work is staffed between offices and that it could be possible to work on a project in a group you're interested in that might not be at your particular office. Any insight on that?

[Anonymous User]

Different poster, but I summered in one of the non-NY/BOS offices and will be returning in the fall.

There is a lot of cross-office work. However, my sense was that while you could certainly try (especially as a summer) a project for a group not represented in your office, it would be difficult to join a practice group that did not already have a presence in the office.

[Anonymous User]

Different poster, but I summered in one of the non-NY/BOS offices and will be returning in the fall.

There is a lot of cross-office work. However, my sense was that while you could certainly try (especially as a summer) a project for a group not represented in your office, it would be difficult to join a practice group that did not already have a presence in the office.

^2nd year associate at Ropes. This is correct.

[Anonymous User]

Career Associate/Staff Attorney/Contract Attorney whatever the firm calls it will probably pay 80-120k. I worked as one at a top 50 firm before they gave me the promotion to full time associate (i had two offers from other firms to go there as an associate and they rather would have kept me then lateral hire). I got paid 80k. I have friends who are staff attorneys at top 100 firms and get about 120k.

[Anonymous User]

Career Associate/Staff Attorney/Contract Attorney whatever the firm calls it will probably pay 80-120k. I worked as one at a top 50 firm before they gave me the promotion to full time associate (i had two offers from other firms to go there as an associate and they rather would have kept me then lateral hire). I got paid 80k. I have friends who are staff attorneys at top 100 firms and get about 120k.

Thanks for the info. How long did it take for you to go from staff to full associate. My friends/family think I’m crazy for giving up a partnership-track associate position and halve my salary (or less) for a different job. I’m just optimistic that I’d be able to leverage that to get an associate position. Obviously it’s very risky, especially in this economy, but I just think I need to switch groups.

[Anonymous User]

Different poster, but I summered in one of the non-NY/BOS offices and will be returning in the fall.

There is a lot of cross-office work. However, my sense was that while you could certainly try (especially as a summer) a project for a group not represented in your office, it would be difficult to join a practice group that did not already have a presence in the office.

^2nd year associate at Ropes. This is correct.

maybe a dumb question, but are there a lot of practice groups not present in the large offices like ny/boston?

[nealric]

Career Associate/Staff Attorney/Contract Attorney whatever the firm calls it will probably pay 80-120k. I worked as one at a top 50 firm before they gave me the promotion to full time associate (i had two offers from other firms to go there as an associate and they rather would have kept me then lateral hire). I got paid 80k. I have friends who are staff attorneys at top 100 firms and get about 120k.

Thanks for the info. How long did it take for you to go from staff to full associate. My friends/family think I’m crazy for giving up a partnership-track associate position and halve my salary (or less) for a different job. I’m just optimistic that I’d be able to leverage that to get an associate position. Obviously it’s very risky, especially in this economy, but I just think I need to switch groups.

I think you are crazy too. It's not about the pay, but about job security and experience. If the firm was looking for a partner-track associate in the group, they would have posted a listing for one. They aren't doing it to try someone out to see if they are partner track-material- they are looking for someone cheap who they can farm out routine tasks to. There's zero incentive for them to give a non-partnership track person interesting work or help them develop. If work dries up, they are likely to give these positions the boot first, especially if you are new to the firm.

I'm sure there are people who've managed to make the leap, but they are the exceptions, and it's not something you should count on. I respect wanting to switch groups, but if your goal is to be a partnership track associate in a different group/firm, I think you are in a stronger position applying to lateral from a different practice group as a partnership track associate than trying to lateral from a non-partnership track role within that practice area. Most people seeing your resume would assume you were fired from your partnership track role.

Overall, I think these sorts of positions can make sense, but only for someone trying to transition from a small firm who never had a shot at biglaw out of law school.

[Anonymous User]

Different poster, but I summered in one of the non-NY/BOS offices and will be returning in the fall.

There is a lot of cross-office work. However, my sense was that while you could certainly try (especially as a summer) a project for a group not represented in your office, it would be difficult to join a practice group that did not already have a presence in the office.

^2nd year associate at Ropes. This is correct.

maybe a dumb question, but are there a lot of practice groups not present in the large offices like ny/boston?

Yes. Chicago, for example, really only has Asset Management and Private Equity Transactions on the Corporate side. Meaning there are no Benefits, Tax, Real Estate, Restructuring, Capital Markets or Debt Finance folks. We've had associates come to Chicago who were previously in one of those groups at another office and it works fine since they already have the relationships, but I don't think you'd be able to work with any of those groups if you started as a Summer Associate.

[trebekismyhero]

Career Associate/Staff Attorney/Contract Attorney whatever the firm calls it will probably pay 80-120k. I worked as one at a top 50 firm before they gave me the promotion to full time associate (i had two offers from other firms to go there as an associate and they rather would have kept me then lateral hire). I got paid 80k. I have friends who are staff attorneys at top 100 firms and get about 120k.

Thanks for the info. How long did it take for you to go from staff to full associate. My friends/family think I’m crazy for giving up a partnership-track associate position and halve my salary (or less) for a different job. I’m just optimistic that I’d be able to leverage that to get an associate position. Obviously it’s very risky, especially in this economy, but I just think I need to switch groups.

I think you are crazy too. It's not about the pay, but about job security and experience. If the firm was looking for a partner-track associate in the group, they would have posted a listing for one. They aren't doing it to try someone out to see if they are partner track-material- they are looking for someone cheap who they can farm out routine tasks to. There's zero incentive for them to give a non-partnership track person interesting work or help them develop. If work dries up, they are likely to give these positions the boot first, especially if you are new to the firm.

I'm sure there are people who've managed to make the leap, but they are the exceptions, and it's not something you should count on. I respect wanting to switch groups, but if your goal is to be a partnership track associate in a different group/firm, I think you are in a stronger position applying to lateral from a different practice group as a partnership track associate than trying to lateral from a non-partnership track role within that practice area. Most people seeing your resume would assume you were fired from your partnership track role.

Overall, I think these sorts of positions can make sense, but only for someone trying to transition from a small firm who never had a shot at biglaw out of law school.

100% correct. At my big law firm, we had two staff attorneys become associates in a 5 year period out of at least 30 staff attorneys. One was related to a huge client and another was a staff attorney in a major practice of need and even then they didn't get credit for the years they worked as a staff attorney. A bunch of them lateraled to firms a little lower in the AmLaw 200 and became associates elsewhere, but the likelihood of you becoming an associate at Ropes is very low. And pretty much all the staff attorneys were ppl that didn't get big law in the first place so as Nealric said, other firms would just assume you were fired from your first firm.There are many other ways to switch practice groups

[Anonymous User]

Different poster, but I summered in one of the non-NY/BOS offices and will be returning in the fall.

There is a lot of cross-office work. However, my sense was that while you could certainly try (especially as a summer) a project for a group not represented in your office, it would be difficult to join a practice group that did not already have a presence in the office.

^2nd year associate at Ropes. This is correct.

maybe a dumb question, but are there a lot of practice groups not present in the large offices like ny/boston?

Yes. Chicago, for example, really only has Asset Management and Private Equity Transactions on the Corporate side. Meaning there are no Benefits, Tax, Real Estate, Restructuring, Capital Markets or Debt Finance folks. We've had associates come to Chicago who were previously in one of those groups at another office and it works fine since they already have the relationships, but I don't think you'd be able to work with any of those groups if you started as a Summer Associate.

Thanks. Sorry I think my question was unclear- I was wondering if there are a lot of practice groups missing in NY or Boston that are present in the smaller offices. Antitust/reg work probably only done in the DC office, but beyond that?

[Anonymous User]

Career Associate/Staff Attorney/Contract Attorney whatever the firm calls it will probably pay 80-120k. I worked as one at a top 50 firm before they gave me the promotion to full time associate (i had two offers from other firms to go there as an associate and they rather would have kept me then lateral hire). I got paid 80k. I have friends who are staff attorneys at top 100 firms and get about 120k.

Thanks for the info. How long did it take for you to go from staff to full associate. My friends/family think I’m crazy for giving up a partnership-track associate position and halve my salary (or less) for a different job. I’m just optimistic that I’d be able to leverage that to get an associate position. Obviously it’s very risky, especially in this economy, but I just think I need to switch groups.

I think you are crazy too. It's not about the pay, but about job security and experience. If the firm was looking for a partner-track associate in the group, they would have posted a listing for one. They aren't doing it to try someone out to see if they are partner track-material- they are looking for someone cheap who they can farm out routine tasks to. There's zero incentive for them to give a non-partnership track person interesting work or help them develop. If work dries up, they are likely to give these positions the boot first, especially if you are new to the firm.

I'm sure there are people who've managed to make the leap, but they are the exceptions, and it's not something you should count on. I respect wanting to switch groups, but if your goal is to be a partnership track associate in a different group/firm, I think you are in a stronger position applying to lateral from a different practice group as a partnership track associate than trying to lateral from a non-partnership track role within that practice area. Most people seeing your resume would assume you were fired from your partnership track role.

Overall, I think these sorts of positions can make sense, but only for someone trying to transition from a small firm who never had a shot at biglaw out of law school.

This is the poster who made the original post in this quote chain - I will second this honestly. I made the jump because I became close with an equity partner and his group of partners. I sought them out and they treated me like an associate after a few months (minus the pay). There are 6 other Career Associates in our group and some have been there 3+ years. It took me 2 years to make the jump and the only reason it happened so quick is because I had other offers. I told that partner I was leaving and he said no chance you are leaving, i will make this happen. 3 months later another Career Associate received an offer who was here for 4 years and they just let him go off. In this market too, they will be first to go so there is a ton of risk. I would recommend it for anyone out of law school or at a small/midsize firm trying to get into big law, but after that is a massive risk. It also varies firm to firm. My firm has promoted 4 Career Associates in 5-6 years and they have had probably 50+ come and go throughout the US offices and groups. Hope that helps.

[Anonymous User]

Career Associate/Staff Attorney/Contract Attorney whatever the firm calls it will probably pay 80-120k. I worked as one at a top 50 firm before they gave me the promotion to full time associate (i had two offers from other firms to go there as an associate and they rather would have kept me then lateral hire). I got paid 80k. I have friends who are staff attorneys at top 100 firms and get about 120k.

Thanks for the info. How long did it take for you to go from staff to full associate. My friends/family think I’m crazy for giving up a partnership-track associate position and halve my salary (or less) for a different job. I’m just optimistic that I’d be able to leverage that to get an associate position. Obviously it’s very risky, especially in this economy, but I just think I need to switch groups.

I think you are crazy too. It's not about the pay, but about job security and experience. If the firm was looking for a partner-track associate in the group, they would have posted a listing for one. They aren't doing it to try someone out to see if they are partner track-material- they are looking for someone cheap who they can farm out routine tasks to. There's zero incentive for them to give a non-partnership track person interesting work or help them develop. If work dries up, they are likely to give these positions the boot first, especially if you are new to the firm.

I'm sure there are people who've managed to make the leap, but they are the exceptions, and it's not something you should count on. I respect wanting to switch groups, but if your goal is to be a partnership track associate in a different group/firm, I think you are in a stronger position applying to lateral from a different practice group as a partnership track associate than trying to lateral from a non-partnership track role within that practice area. Most people seeing your resume would assume you were fired from your partnership track role.

Overall, I think these sorts of positions can make sense, but only for someone trying to transition from a small firm who never had a shot at biglaw out of law school.

100% correct. At my big law firm, we had two staff attorneys become associates in a 5 year period out of at least 30 staff attorneys. One was related to a huge client and another was a staff attorney in a major practice of need and even then they didn't get credit for the years they worked as a staff attorney. A bunch of them lateraled to firms a little lower in the AmLaw 200 and became associates elsewhere, but the likelihood of you becoming an associate at Ropes is very low. And pretty much all the staff attorneys were ppl that didn't get big law in the first place so as Nealric said, other firms would just assume you were fired from your first firm.There are many other ways to switch practice groups

Second year here. Perhaps, as you noted, some really niche regulatory stuff may only be done in DC or may only be done by one or two people who aren't based in NY or Boston. But even then the practice group itself has members in either NY or Boston.