Effect of Low Market to Incoming First Years Forum

[Anonymous User]

I was just wondering if people had any insight. What will be happening to the incoming first years at the law firms? Will we still have offers/jobs? Should we be worried?

[Anonymous User]

https://www.law.com/americanlawyer/almI ... -Numbers-/

I can't find any data on whether first year offers were revoked—only the number of attorneys laid off. I am very curious about this because the firm I am starting with in August laid off between 3-5% (keeping vague as to not reveal firm).

[malibustacy]

No one knows. It really depends on the specific firm and practice group. This might not even be a real economic downturn, who knows.

Don't make wide career-changing assumptions like restructuring is going to be hot, or that M&A will be dead and so on. This isn't going to be 2008-2012. I always found a specific law firm's financial strength and client base to be a better indicator of how things will go in a recession. For example, firms like K&E with their entire suite of PE firms and portfolio companies is better positioned to constantly have work rain or shine rather than certain prestigious corporate boutiques or white shoe firms.

[Anonymous User]

Thank you. I hope it isn’t as bad as 08-12. Doing transactional coming August. Pretty dead set on that, so I wasn’t planning on doing changes in terms of groups. But I am a bit worried about whether we will still have our jobs come August. I like to think my firm is doing well. Very diversified in terms of groups. Has a good PE practice too. But again, I like being prepared so as not to go into the summer blindly thinking I will still have my job offer.

[cjm2018]

. . . . But I am a bit worried about whether we will still have our jobs come August. I like to think my firm is doing well. Very diversified in terms of groups. Has a good PE practice too. But again, I like being prepared so as not to go into the summer blindly thinking I will still have my job offer.

If your firm is doing well and has good diversification, then I'm not sure for what you will be preparing besides being fiscally conservative, which is something you're best off doing regardless of the economic climate. If your firm slashes incoming associates, so will other firms. It's not as if the 3L hiring market is about to boom while firms shed people who summered there. Panicking about a hypothetical situation over which you really have no control doesn't do much good, IMO.

[nealric]

No one knows. It really depends on the specific firm and practice group. This might not even be a real economic downturn, who knows.

Don't make wide career-changing assumptions like restructuring is going to be hot, or that M&A will be dead and so on. This isn't going to be 2008-2012. I always found a specific law firm's financial strength and client base to be a better indicator of how things will go in a recession. For example, firms like K&E with their entire suite of PE firms and portfolio companies is better positioned to constantly have work rain or shine rather than certain prestigious corporate boutiques or white shoe firms.

I'd add some personal experience from the 2008 financial crisis. I was a summer associate in 2009, the great no-offer summer. Everyone was clamoring to work in bankruptcy/restructuring because they were the only busy practice group in the firm. Well, there were 20SAs, and bankruptcy wasn't going to take more than 1-2. Many of the bankruptcy juniors were actually slow because mid levels and up were so busy they had trouble finding time to delegate and bring the juniors on board given the fast moving situations. Long story short, it was hardly the life raft people thought it was.

The ~50% of the class that got offers got them because they worked hard and made connections- not because of the practice group they were interested in. In fact, given the uncertainty, the firm made offers without assigning practice groups. I even thought about bankruptcy at the time, but years later I am so glad I didn't go that route. It just wasn't my personality or line of interest.

If you want to do bankruptcy, do it. But don't do it because it's the flavor of the month.

[Anonymous User]

I agree with the post above about sticking true with the group that speaks most to you. Thank you for giving insight.
I know it does no good to worry about things beyond my control, but I figured I’d ask if others have heard any murmurings. Good to know that it might just be ok.

[Anonymous User]

How do people think the recent financial / economic turmoil and coronavirus slowdown will affect offers at historically 100% offer rate firms this upcoming summer? How about offers in general?

During summer of 2009 were offer rates above 50%?

[jimmythecatdied6]

No one knows.

[Anonymous User]

Just got an email today about our incoming summer class. Seems like it's going forward as planned. It might take a little time for firm hiring/layoffs to catch up to the coronavirus fueled economic crisis coming. Incoming first years will probably be ok.

[Anonymous User]

Just a few words of encouragement. It may or may not work out with biglaw. And if doesn’t that sucks. I was a few classes back from being majorly effected by 2008. But I’m old enough to know lawyers that were. By and large they are all anecdotally doing well. Some were forced on more alternative paths. But those T14 grads who were forced out of their comfort zones , I.e. plaintiffs work, start ups, etc. we’re actually better off. They make more money now than they would of had they started in biglaw from the start.

Others just had to wait a couple of years and ended up in biglaw anyway. All this is to say that a recession is not the Ned of the world. And by and large you will be fine!

[64Fl]

They make more money now than they would of had they started in biglaw from the start.

I'm glad the traditional measuring stick of TLS lives on. You could have gone with better work life balance, career fulfillment, AND good compensation. Nah, just compensation.

I'm half razzing you and half not.

[HorrendousKablooie]

I don't think that defaulting to compensation as $$$ necessarily indicates obsession with $$$. We all just know the game is so ****ed up at this point that we only expect $$$ and try like hell to figure out the rest.

[PeanutsNJam]

They make more money now than they would of had they started in biglaw from the start.

I'm glad the traditional measuring stick of TLS lives on. You could have gone with better work life balance, career fulfillment, AND good compensation. Nah, just compensation.

I'm half razzing you and half not.

I'm not convinced that plaintiff's attorneys who make more than biglaw have better "work life balance." It's not like 9-fig cases are just easier from the plaintiff side or somehow require less work.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

They make more money now than they would of had they started in biglaw from the start.

I'm glad the traditional measuring stick of TLS lives on. You could have gone with better work life balance, career fulfillment, AND good compensation. Nah, just compensation.

I'm half razzing you and half not.

I'm not convinced that plaintiff's attorneys who make more than biglaw have better "work life balance." It's not like 9-fig cases are just easier from the plaintiff side or somehow require less work.

No idea what’s normal but I worked at a small two person shop for a bit and I creeped and saw their houses. They had nice homes (but not crazy) in nice parts of L.A. so they had to be pulling in a healthy amount of money. And they did seem to have pretty chill lives (clients aren’t generally emailing you all hours and need ASAP responses and docs) but obviously things got hectic if there was a trial. But most settle.

Of course, for their first several years of practice they had to grind away at another small shop to learn the practice and probably made shit money.