Fired as a First Year Forum

[Zackattack341]

I've done some research on this situation but I haven't seen much about other people in this situation, so I'm hoping someone here can let me know.

I'm a CCN graduate in the Class of 2019. I started my job at a mid-size firm in a major market (slightly below Cravath scale) in September, and was let go yesterday. They said that it had something to do with "my heart not being in it" and how I lacked attention to detail, leading to a lot of structural and grammatical mistakes.

I haven't had much work since I've started (only billed ~60 hours in January), so I expect that the firm is having financial troubles. It doesn't matter either way at this point because I just need a new job.

Has anyone encountered this sort of thing happening before? They've offered me unlimited website time, and to update my title once I'm sworn in later this month, but I was asked to leave within 10 minutes of being told I was fired, so I am currently not working.

How can I best use my time to maximize my odds of getting a job in the next ~3 months. I have enough saved to last me a few months, so money isn't a pressing issue, so I'm willing to take the time that I need to get a job at a (hopefully more stable) firm.

My plan right now: contact my Career Services office to see if they can connect me with anyone, mine my network for anyone that may know someone or could give me advice, apply for entry-level and junior
associate positions, and cold email people in particular areas of interest.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

[Anon-non-anon]

Sorry to hear that, sounds really rough but like you have the right idea on getting back on your feet. I would just apply to anything open that you're qualified for. It's a little off cycle for juniors atm, but that could work to your advantage if there are less applicants.

Also, if you have a good relationship with any of the partners, it might be beneficial to try to have a more substantive conversation with them about what went wrong. Attention to detail being important won't change with the new job, so if that's really it, it's something to work on. Also having a reference from the firm you were fired from might assuage some fears of potential employers, especially if they can vouch for your work not being a problem.

[Zackattack341]

Thank you, I appreciate it.

I had been spoken to about lack of attention to detail a few times before, but I was also told that it wasn't really a cause for concern because asa first year I'm not expected to do everything perfectly. I thought I'd have more time to get my feet under me, for at least a formal warning before they dropped the hammer.

The head of the group has offered to serve as a reference for me, which leads me to believe that it was most likely financial. Work has been slow for awhile, including for people more senior than me. I also plan to reach out to a partner that I was particularly close to and that was looking out for me so I can get some more information. I plan to reach out to a few attorneys at the firm and some partners who left the firm shortly after I started as part of my networking.

[sparty99]

I've done some research on this situation but I haven't seen much about other people in this situation, so I'm hoping someone here can let me know.

I'm a CCN graduate in the Class of 2019. I started my job at a mid-size firm in a major market (slightly below Cravath scale) in September, and was let go yesterday. They said that it had something to do with "my heart not being in it" and how I lacked attention to detail, leading to a lot of structural and grammatical mistakes.

I haven't had much work since I've started (only billed ~60 hours in January), so I expect that the firm is having financial troubles. It doesn't matter either way at this point because I just need a new job.

Has anyone encountered this sort of thing happening before? They've offered me unlimited website time, and to update my title once I'm sworn in later this month, but I was asked to leave within 10 minutes of being told I was fired, so I am currently not working.

How can I best use my time to maximize my odds of getting a job in the next ~3 months. I have enough saved to last me a few months, so money isn't a pressing issue, so I'm willing to take the time that I need to get a job at a (hopefully more stable) firm.

My plan right now: contact my Career Services office to see if they can connect me with anyone, mine my network for anyone that may know someone or could give me advice, apply for entry-level and junior
associate positions, and cold email people in particular areas of interest.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Because you are only a law clerk right now, you might be able to sell this as if you are just an hourly clerk and your current job is temporarily or if you do become sworn in, maybe say you are a staff attorney or something and are looking for something permanent.

[Zackattack341]

Would that really be better than making a narrative about how my hours are low and that I'm looking to specialize? My impression is that it is better to lateral than to look for a new job, but I could be wrong. This is obviously uncharted territory.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

Don’t ever admit your hours are low.

[Anonymous User]

Don’t ever admit your hours are low.

Why's that?

[Jchance]

I'd apply to clerk ASAP; you may get some bites at the urgent hiring for the newly confirmed judges.

[Anonymous User]

I'd apply to clerk ASAP; you may get some bites at the urgent hiring for the newly confirmed judges.

I definitely plan on applying for clerkships. Not my first choice though because ideally I'd like to stay in my home market and I don't think I have the credentials to get a clerkship here. I could likely get some bites from neighboring states, but I'd rather not move.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

Don’t ever admit your hours are low.

Why's that?

First, people will read into that statement and will assume things. They can assume that people didn’t want to work with you, you weren’t good, etc. Sure, they may assume it’s because the firm was slow but I wouldn’t bank on that. Even though we all know a first year has absolutely no control over their work, people are dumb and will assume things.

Second, it says you don’t have as much experience as you should. Can’t learn if you aren’t working.

[Anonymous User]

I'm so sorry. If it's any consolation to you, I was also fired as a first year associate (NYC V50) and I was also told that "my heart was not in it," even though my firm simply didn't have any work for me to do. So they blew up the tiny mistakes and slights that I made, and, even when they did, it sounded so ridiculous to everyone involved that nobody could look me in the eye.

You should work with recruiters and try to make the jump to a different practice group or a different market.

Supposedly, it's hiring season this very moment.

I'm rooting for you.

[Anonymous User]

I'm so sorry. If it's any consolation to you, I was also fired as a first year associate (NYC V50) and I was also told that "my heart was not in it," even though my firm simply didn't have any work for me to do. So they blew up the tiny mistakes and slights that I made, and, even when they did, it sounded so ridiculous to everyone involved that nobody could look me in the eye.

You should work with recruiters and try to make the jump to a different practice group or a different market.

Supposedly, it's hiring season this very moment.

I'm rooting for you.

Thanks lot, I really appreciate it. Am I too junior to be using a recruiter, or do you think they would be willing to work with me?

[nealric]

I'm so sorry. If it's any consolation to you, I was also fired as a first year associate (NYC V50) and I was also told that "my heart was not in it," even though my firm simply didn't have any work for me to do. So they blew up the tiny mistakes and slights that I made, and, even when they did, it sounded so ridiculous to everyone involved that nobody could look me in the eye.

You should work with recruiters and try to make the jump to a different practice group or a different market.

Supposedly, it's hiring season this very moment.

I'm rooting for you.

Thanks lot, I really appreciate it. Am I too junior to be using a recruiter, or do you think they would be willing to work with me?

Nah. They will work with anybody who had the credentials to get biglaw in the first place. But I wouldn't over-rely on a recruiter. Reach out to all of your law school friends in biglaw. Some firms may be understaffed and willing to take you on- a friendly word can help a lot to get you a look.

[jrose55]

I'm so sorry. If it's any consolation to you, I was also fired as a first year associate (NYC V50) and I was also told that "my heart was not in it," even though my firm simply didn't have any work for me to do. So they blew up the tiny mistakes and slights that I made, and, even when they did, it sounded so ridiculous to everyone involved that nobody could look me in the eye.

You should work with recruiters and try to make the jump to a different practice group or a different market.

Supposedly, it's hiring season this very moment.

I'm rooting for you.

Thanks lot, I really appreciate it. Am I too junior to be using a recruiter, or do you think they would be willing to work with me?

My hunch is sort of too junior. Recruiters tend to be filling for specific needs arising in law firm practice groups. As a first year, it's hard to see how you would fulfill a need that justifies paying the recruiter fee (can be a hefty 25% of your annual salary).

[Anonymous User]

I'm so sorry. If it's any consolation to you, I was also fired as a first year associate (NYC V50) and I was also told that "my heart was not in it," even though my firm simply didn't have any work for me to do. So they blew up the tiny mistakes and slights that I made, and, even when they did, it sounded so ridiculous to everyone involved that nobody could look me in the eye.

You should work with recruiters and try to make the jump to a different practice group or a different market.

Supposedly, it's hiring season this very moment.

I'm rooting for you.

Thanks lot, I really appreciate it. Am I too junior to be using a recruiter, or do you think they would be willing to work with me?

Nah. They will work with anybody who had the credentials to get biglaw in the first place. But I wouldn't over-rely on a recruiter. Reach out to all of your law school friends in biglaw. Some firms may be understaffed and willing to take you on- a friendly word can help a lot to get you a look.

Okay this makes sense. Not really a downside to reaching out either way. I'm trying to utilize every avenue that could lead me to a job. I'm giving myself a few days to get my head on straight, then starting Monday I'm going to begin reaching out to everyone I have any reason to speak with. I've asked roommates who work on the client side for referrals to their lawyers, I have family who are lawyers and also who know lawyers, I have friends from law school in town who may know of something, coworkers from both this firm and from my 1L summer internship, various family friends, etc. I am planning to reach out to as many people as possible until I get a hit. This is of course in addition to cold calling and applying to posted positions.

[Best]

I'm not 100% on board with these being "tiny" mistakes. Typos, for example, aren't "tiny" mistakes when you're charging a client 300 (or considerably more) an hour.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

I'm not 100% on board with these being "tiny" mistakes. Typos, for example, aren't "tiny" mistakes when you're charging a client 300 (or considerably more) an hour.

Oh please. Typos happen. They’re an inevitable part of the job.

[Wubbles]

It sounds like you might not be wanting to change markets, but if you were to apply to other markets hanging your hat on wanting to be in another city can be a great way to cover up the early exit from your firm.

[Skool]

I'm not 100% on board with these being "tiny" mistakes. Typos, for example, aren't "tiny" mistakes when you're charging a client 300 (or considerably more) an hour.

I mean, it doesn't really matter. The firm just fired a first year in February. There aren't enough "tiny" mistakes or typos that they could have possibly done so far to add up to getting shit-canned. This is obviously about the firm and not OP. Actually, it's probably about an industry-wide litigation slow down that's effecting most firms right now, including the big dogs.

Good luck OP. Don't believe anyone who tells you this is about you. You're in the right mind frame and on the right track, keep hustling. I would be aiming for any federal judge anywhere in the country, especially the new ones. If you land one of those gigs, you'll easily be able to tell future mid-law/big law jobs you left your former firm for the opportunity to clerk.

[Anonymous User]

I'm so sorry. If it's any consolation to you, I was also fired as a first year associate (NYC V50) and I was also told that "my heart was not in it," even though my firm simply didn't have any work for me to do. So they blew up the tiny mistakes and slights that I made, and, even when they did, it sounded so ridiculous to everyone involved that nobody could look me in the eye.

You should work with recruiters and try to make the jump to a different practice group or a different market.

Supposedly, it's hiring season this very moment.

I'm rooting for you.

Thanks lot, I really appreciate it. Am I too junior to be using a recruiter, or do you think they would be willing to work with me?

My hunch is sort of too junior. Recruiters tend to be filling for specific needs arising in law firm practice groups. As a first year, it's hard to see how you would fulfill a need that justifies paying the recruiter fee (can be a hefty 25% of your annual salary).

That was my suspicion as well, but I guess there's no harm in reaching out. If I'm trying to take advantage of all my resources, then I need to make sure I reach out to absolutely anyone who might be able to help.

[Anonymous User]

It sounds like you might not be wanting to change markets, but if you were to apply to other markets hanging your hat on wanting to be in another city can be a great way to cover up the early exit from your firm.

I for sure do not want to trade markets unless I get an incredible opportunity. I would be open to changing groups, and this may provide me an opportunity to do so. I'm hoping changing groups will be a good narrative.

[Anonymous User]

I'm not 100% on board with these being "tiny" mistakes. Typos, for example, aren't "tiny" mistakes when you're charging a client 300 (or considerably more) an hour.

I mean, it doesn't really matter. The firm just fired a first year in February. There aren't enough "tiny" mistakes or typos that they could have possibly done so far to add up to getting shit-canned. This is obviously about the firm and not OP. Actually, it's probably about an industry-wide litigation slow down that's effecting most firms right now, including the big dogs.

Good luck OP. Don't believe anyone who tells you this is about you. You're in the right mind frame and on the right track, keep hustling. I would be aiming for any federal judge anywhere in the country, especially the new ones. If you land one of those gigs, you'll easily be able to tell future mid-law/big law jobs you left your former firm for the opportunity to clerk.

Thanks, I appreciate it. It does kind of suck having people saying it was my fault for the typos, when my sense is that most firms don't can a first year in February over typos. I'd expected some more time to sort myself out and develop a system so I could consistently put out higher quality work, but it wasn't meant to be unfortunately.

For now all I can really do is keep hustling and ask more experienced people for advice on navigating this situation.

[FND]

I'm not 100% on board with these being "tiny" mistakes. Typos, for example, aren't "tiny" mistakes when you're charging a client 300 (or considerably more) an hour.

it's a matter of proportionality. One or two typos in a 10 page document once or twice a month won't get a first-year associate shit-canned so soon, but a typo every other sentence and they wouldn't have waited until after bonus season.

It sounds like you might not be wanting to change markets, but if you were to apply to other markets hanging your hat on wanting to be in another city can be a great way to cover up the early exit from your firm.

This is great advice. More importantly, it's an excuse you can use twice - when you try to get back to your home market you've got a good explanation why.

as an aside, whenever I was asked about moving market, my standard answer was family reasons (as in, my family will be better off if I get the job I'm applying to).
"I have family near Nashville(.... St. Louis is only 5 hours away...)"
"My spouse is moving there for a job (because my spouse is coming with me)"

The less said the better, and if they ask for details, deflect
"Where does your cousin live?" "(9 hours) to the south of town... what kind of clients will I be working with?"

[Anonymous User]

I'm not 100% on board with these being "tiny" mistakes. Typos, for example, aren't "tiny" mistakes when you're charging a client 300 (or considerably more) an hour.

I mean, it doesn't really matter. The firm just fired a first year in February. There aren't enough "tiny" mistakes or typos that they could have possibly done so far to add up to getting shit-canned. This is obviously about the firm and not OP. Actually, it's probably about an industry-wide litigation slow down that's effecting most firms right now, including the big dogs.

Good luck OP. Don't believe anyone who tells you this is about you. You're in the right mind frame and on the right track, keep hustling. I would be aiming for any federal judge anywhere in the country, especially the new ones. If you land one of those gigs, you'll easily be able to tell future mid-law/big law jobs you left your former firm for the opportunity to clerk.

Thanks, I appreciate it. It does kind of suck having people saying it was my fault for the typos, when my sense is that most firms don't can a first year in February over typos. I'd expected some more time to sort myself out and develop a system so I could consistently put out higher quality work, but it wasn't meant to be unfortunately.

For now all I can really do is keep hustling and ask more experienced people for advice on navigating this situation.

I'm at a biglaw firm and I'd say a lot of first years suck honestly. But you won't see them getting pushed out. In fact, even underbilling at like 1400-1500 hours won't get them pushed out. It's your firm OP - they simply couldn't afford to keep you on. Just hustle now. Best way would be to craft a plausible story like you've always wanted X practice area but your firm doesn't have it so you're trying to make a move as a junior before you become too niche at what you're currently doing. Say that story and believe it and you'll be golden. Unlimited website time means you should be good.

[FND]

I'd expected some more time to sort myself out and develop a system so I could consistently put out higher quality work, but it wasn't meant to be unfortunately.

It's really difficult to proof work you just completed, because you're not seeing the mistakes you didn't see two minutes earlier. It's a lot easier to review it fresh. If at all possible, finish your work by the end of the day, and review first thing in the morning.
If that doesn't work, lunch or a bathroom break is a bare minimum to reset your frame of mind, but I'd also recommend switching tasks: Finish X; work on Y; switch back to X and pretend someone else did the work and look for that person's mistakes.