Moved from doing Private Equity law to business role in Private Equity AMA Forum

[Anonymous User]

I won’t post outing info, but happy to answer questions in the new year.

I went Biglaw in a private equity practice -> Work for a large buyout shop in an investment role.

[MillllerTime]

I'll ask the usual generic questions about background: finance degree / experience? how long at a firm? did you go to client or random? Anything else that made you particularly desirable for the PE shop?

As for your current role: did you go in at VP level at PE shop or have to take a step back? would you say you have the same role as your PE peers or do you find yourself handling more legal aspects (e.g., are you more involved in legal docs than those without a legal background / do you do less modeling-type work)?

And lastly, any advice from your experience you would give to past you still at a law firm?

[Anonymous User]

I'll ask the usual generic questions about background: finance degree / experience? how long at a firm? did you go to client or random? Anything else that made you particularly desirable for the PE shop?

As for your current role: did you go in at VP level at PE shop or have to take a step back? would you say you have the same role as your PE peers or do you find yourself handling more legal aspects (e.g., are you more involved in legal docs than those without a legal background / do you do less modeling-type work)?

And lastly, any advice from your experience you would give to past you still at a law firm?

I did not major in finance and did not go to a “target” undergrad or law school. I had some experience in law school in finance roles. I was in a legal role for around 2 years.

What made me desirable - I got a reputation as a “whatever it takes” type of worker and impressed the team that ended up hiring me. The team that hired me wasn’t directly a client but I could spin my experience and I got good recommendations from people who had worked with me.

I have the same typed of role as my peers but am a bit better at the legal stuff, I did not come in as a Vice President but started on the post -MBA track with a cohort of MBAs. Comp is ahead of where I’d be on the biglaw scale.

Advice I’d give my past self - don’t get so stressed out about billables, if you impress, opportunities will present themselves no matter how low your billables might be.

[Yea All Right]

Are you guys hiring? Lol

[Anonymous User]

Are you guys hiring? Lol

HR doesn’t seem to like anyone I recommend in .

[Anonymous User]

I won’t post outing info, but happy to answer questions in the new year.

I went Biglaw in a private equity practice -> Work for a large buyout shop in an investment role.

NYC Big4 Senior Associate doing PE specific tax (mostly structuring acquisitions of foreign companies). At what point, if ever, would I have a reasonable chance at moving in-house doing tax, legal, or investment? JD and LLM neither from t14.

[dabigchina]

Are the hours better than biglaw? Do you like your work more?

[MillllerTime]

I have the same typed of role as my peers but am a bit better at the legal stuff, I did not come in as a Vice President but started on the post -MBA track with a cohort of MBAs. Comp is ahead of where I’d be on the biglaw scale.

Thank you. Bolded is a little surprising to me; the sense I had always gotten was that PE guys had to take a bit of a hit for several years before blowing past the lawyers at VP or even a year or two later.

One more: what's your sense for how your firm will handle the election year. I've read articles about how everyone is going to hit pause on sale processes through Q2-Q3 but the counter is that everyone has too much money to put to work so it won't matter. I'm sure above both our pay grade, but wondering if something you all discuss?

[Anonymous User]

I won’t post outing info, but happy to answer questions in the new year.

I went Biglaw in a private equity practice -> Work for a large buyout shop in an investment role.

NYC Big4 Senior Associate doing PE specific tax (mostly structuring acquisitions of foreign companies). At what point, if ever, would I have a reasonable chance at moving in-house doing tax, legal, or investment? JD and LLM neither from t14.

It will depend on the firm for seniority (some firms that are more MF types lean earlier) but likely at least manager.

[Anonymous User]

Are the hours better than biglaw? Do you like your work more?

My overall hours are likely a tad bit worse ie; the volume is a bit higher. That being said I’m much happier with the hours, it’s a lot less variable with 8 to 8 type days, and I’ve never been in the office past 7 on a Friday night.

The work itself is varied but I have enjoyed a much higher percentage of it than my biglaw work. However note that I spent almost my entire time in biglaw trying to move so I may be a bit biased. Also note that this isn’t some mythical place, you still write a fuckton for IC papers and have some admin type assignments (reviewing portfolio valuations specifically comes to mind).

[Anonymous User]

I have the same typed of role as my peers but am a bit better at the legal stuff, I did not come in as a Vice President but started on the post -MBA track with a cohort of MBAs. Comp is ahead of where I’d be on the biglaw scale.

Thank you. Bolded is a little surprising to me; the sense I had always gotten was that PE guys had to take a bit of a hit for several years before blowing past the lawyers at VP or even a year or two later.

One more: what's your sense for how your firm will handle the election year. I've read articles about how everyone is going to hit pause on sale processes through Q2-Q3 but the counter is that everyone has too much money to put to work so it won't matter. I'm sure above both our pay grade, but wondering if something you all discuss?

It depends on when the associate moved over, my equivalent class year I think is around c. 260 or so all in and a lot of pre MBA associates make around that. I’m likely paid a bit under market for my level but I’m OK with I due to lifestyle and “training” I’m getting. When carry hits (the next step) it is a significant movement of comp.

If you are coming over as a 6th or 7th year and clearing 400 and moving to a mid market fund not in NYC, that’s going to be much different.

Note that I’m not including perks like no fee or carry on coinvest (I’m aiming to have 6 figures committed by end of this year.

On exits, this will really depend on what valuations look like then. I will note we had 5 or so exits last quarter which may skew a bit as there aren’t that many companies “ready”.

[Anonymous User]

Cool -- I find the PE business really interesting so this is just exactly the AMA I was looking for.

(1) I am a 5th year M&A associate at a Baker McKenzie/DLA type firm in Texas, not a Kirkland/Latham -- are my odds of landing a PE in-house role (from applying on the internet as opposed to moving into a client) much worse? I am theoretically open to moving anywhere.

(2) I presume your hours (8-to-8) are par for the course in PE, so this is not exactly a lifestyle gig. Are there PE funds that are super "lifestyle" / pay less / known for extreme collegiality / or even have a social entrepreneurship focus, or am I dreaming?

Thanks in advance!

[2013]

I have the same typed of role as my peers but am a bit better at the legal stuff, I did not come in as a Vice President but started on the post -MBA track with a cohort of MBAs. Comp is ahead of where I’d be on the biglaw scale.

Thank you. Bolded is a little surprising to me; the sense I had always gotten was that PE guys had to take a bit of a hit for several years before blowing past the lawyers at VP or even a year or two later.

One more: what's your sense for how your firm will handle the election year. I've read articles about how everyone is going to hit pause on sale processes through Q2-Q3 but the counter is that everyone has too much money to put to work so it won't matter. I'm sure above both our pay grade, but wondering if something you all discuss?

It depends on when the associate moved over, my equivalent class year I think is around c. 260 or so all in and a lot of pre MBA associates make around that. I’m likely paid a bit under market for my level but I’m OK with I due to lifestyle and “training” I’m getting. When carry hits (the next step) it is a significant movement of comp.

If you are coming over as a 6th or 7th year and clearing 400 and moving to a mid market fund not in NYC, that’s going to be much different.

Note that I’m not including perks like no fee or carry on coinvest (I’m aiming to have 6 figures committed by end of this year.

On exits, this will really depend on what valuations look like then. I will note we had 5 or so exits last quarter which may skew a bit as there aren’t that many companies “ready”.

Are there truly that many pre-MBA associates? My understanding was that only “stellar” analysts are promoted to associate without an MBA.

That pre-MBA associate salary is insane (especially if it doesn’t include the other “perks”).

[synergy]

Thanks for doing this. When you say you were doing private equity law, do you m&a and/or acquisition finance type deal work or fund formation? Were you at an elite PE law firm (simpson or Kirkland etc)? How did you sell your legal experience?

[Anonymous User]

I have the same typed of role as my peers but am a bit better at the legal stuff, I did not come in as a Vice President but started on the post -MBA track with a cohort of MBAs. Comp is ahead of where I’d be on the biglaw scale.

Thank you. Bolded is a little surprising to me; the sense I had always gotten was that PE guys had to take a bit of a hit for several years before blowing past the lawyers at VP or even a year or two later.

One more: what's your sense for how your firm will handle the election year. I've read articles about how everyone is going to hit pause on sale processes through Q2-Q3 but the counter is that everyone has too much money to put to work so it won't matter. I'm sure above both our pay grade, but wondering if something you all discuss?

It depends on when the associate moved over, my equivalent class year I think is around c. 260 or so all in and a lot of pre MBA associates make around that. I’m likely paid a bit under market for my level but I’m OK with I due to lifestyle and “training” I’m getting. When carry hits (the next step) it is a significant movement of comp.

If you are coming over as a 6th or 7th year and clearing 400 and moving to a mid market fund not in NYC, that’s going to be much different.

Note that I’m not including perks like no fee or carry on coinvest (I’m aiming to have 6 figures committed by end of this year.

On exits, this will really depend on what valuations look like then. I will note we had 5 or so exits last quarter which may skew a bit as there aren’t that many companies “ready”.

Are there truly that many pre-MBA associates? My understanding was that only “stellar” analysts are promoted to associate without an MBA.

That pre-MBA associate salary is insane (especially if it doesn’t include the other “perks”).

It’s all in so includes base +bonus, doing an apples to apples comparison with biglaw base + bonus. My base compensation may never exceed seventh year associate base salary if I stay in this industry. 1st year PE all in comp tracks or is slightly higher than 1st year banking associate comp (note that PE comp is all over the board in lower middle market).

Note at 90% of firms until very recently the most junior investment professionals are associates who came in after a 2 year IBD or consulting stint.

I’m not totally sure where analysts (there are new PE analyst roles for superstar undergrads) being unrolled at most UMM/MF funds land comp wise but it’s likely competitive with stub biglaw associates.

Post MBA associates are where the massive culling happens.

[2013]

I have the same typed of role as my peers but am a bit better at the legal stuff, I did not come in as a Vice President but started on the post -MBA track with a cohort of MBAs. Comp is ahead of where I’d be on the biglaw scale.

Thank you. Bolded is a little surprising to me; the sense I had always gotten was that PE guys had to take a bit of a hit for several years before blowing past the lawyers at VP or even a year or two later.

One more: what's your sense for how your firm will handle the election year. I've read articles about how everyone is going to hit pause on sale processes through Q2-Q3 but the counter is that everyone has too much money to put to work so it won't matter. I'm sure above both our pay grade, but wondering if something you all discuss?

It depends on when the associate moved over, my equivalent class year I think is around c. 260 or so all in and a lot of pre MBA associates make around that. I’m likely paid a bit under market for my level but I’m OK with I due to lifestyle and “training” I’m getting. When carry hits (the next step) it is a significant movement of comp.

If you are coming over as a 6th or 7th year and clearing 400 and moving to a mid market fund not in NYC, that’s going to be much different.

Note that I’m not including perks like no fee or carry on coinvest (I’m aiming to have 6 figures committed by end of this year.

On exits, this will really depend on what valuations look like then. I will note we had 5 or so exits last quarter which may skew a bit as there aren’t that many companies “ready”.

Are there truly that many pre-MBA associates? My understanding was that only “stellar” analysts are promoted to associate without an MBA.

That pre-MBA associate salary is insane (especially if it doesn’t include the other “perks”).

It’s all in so includes base +bonus, doing an apples to apples comparison with biglaw base + bonus. My base compensation may never exceed seventh year associate base salary if I stay in this industry. 1st year PE all in comp tracks or is slightly higher than 1st year banking associate comp (note that PE comp is all over the board in lower middle market).

Note at 90% of firms until very recently the most junior investment professionals are associates who came in after a 2 year IBD or consulting stint.

I’m not totally sure where analysts (there are new PE analyst roles for superstar undergrads) being unrolled at most UMM/MF funds land comp wise but it’s likely competitive with stub biglaw associates.

Post MBA associates are where the massive culling happens.

Could you provide an all-in comp trajectory for someone in your position, including carry? (Just general numbers)

Also, do you think your hours will become more or less predictable at the VP and up levels?

[Johnnybgoode92]

OP, thank you for an inspiring thread. You let TLS know they can potentially (even if highly highly unlikely) get a business side job with more predictable hours, better comp, no billables, and more interesting work (financial modeling>due diligence/form editing/checklists any day). But some questions could help myself and others here dissatisfied with legal work.

1. Is this move possible for a current 3L, can he or she skip big law life altogether and go straight into buy side finance, or even a non prestigious ibank?
2. What steps do you recommend said 3L take? Where can he or she learn modeling in an efficient and affordable manner?
3. Do you regret going to law school? Would you have rather gotten an MBA or done IBD and gone straight into PE?

[Anonymous User]

OP, thank you for an inspiring thread. You let TLS know they can potentially (even if highly highly unlikely) get a business side job with more predictable hours, better comp, no billables, and more interesting work (financial modeling>due diligence/form editing/checklists any day). But some questions could help myself and others here dissatisfied with legal work.

1. Is this move possible for a current 3L, can he or she skip big law life altogether and go straight into buy side finance, or even a non prestigious ibank?
2. What steps do you recommend said 3L take? Where can he or she learn modeling in an efficient and affordable manner?
3. Do you regret going to law school? Would you have rather gotten an MBA or done IBD and gone straight into PE?

Great question. I wondered the same thing as a 3L. Looking forward to reading the OP's response.

[Anonymous User]

Double post

[Anonymous User]

OP, thank you for an inspiring thread. You let TLS know they can potentially (even if highly highly unlikely) get a business side job with more predictable hours, better comp, no billables, and more interesting work (financial modeling>due diligence/form editing/checklists any day). But some questions could help myself and others here dissatisfied with legal work.

1. Is this move possible for a current 3L, can he or she skip big law life altogether and go straight into buy side finance, or even a non prestigious ibank?
2. What steps do you recommend said 3L take? Where can he or she learn modeling in an efficient and affordable manner?
3. Do you regret going to law school? Would you have rather gotten an MBA or done IBD and gone straight into PE?

Exact reason why I am happy to do an AMA like this - when I read TLS back in the early 2010s most threads noted that this was an impossible movw and I should be massmailimg or something instead of worrying about non-legal opportunities. Note the amount of true financial modeling you do as an IBD associate is pretty low to be honest and there's a lot of ppt deck creation.

1. For banking it's possible but you are kind of late, most banks locked everyone up in like October, check the MBA forums to confirm this. Buyside is still open but much much harder and you are setting yourself up for failure if you don't know how to model right now and want to take a buyside job starting after graduation. I'm assuming you are comfortable reneging on your biglaw offer and repaying barbri etc.
2. Start networking, possibly take CFA level 1 if you have no business undergrad, if you can do any sort of finance internship this semester, would be beneficial ("transactional lawyer, hungry to learn or something"). But as I noted before, you are very late so you will likely need to do a year or two in biglaw and then lateral as a banking associate.
3. I was a super splitter so law school was the only real option. Moving to IBD/Consulting was the goal from day one. If I had good grades, probably would have tried to do IBD -> PE or startups.

[Anonymous User]

I have the same typed of role as my peers but am a bit better at the legal stuff, I did not come in as a Vice President but started on the post -MBA track with a cohort of MBAs. Comp is ahead of where I’d be on the biglaw scale.

Thank you. Bolded is a little surprising to me; the sense I had always gotten was that PE guys had to take a bit of a hit for several years before blowing past the lawyers at VP or even a year or two later.

One more: what's your sense for how your firm will handle the election year. I've read articles about how everyone is going to hit pause on sale processes through Q2-Q3 but the counter is that everyone has too much money to put to work so it won't matter. I'm sure above both our pay grade, but wondering if something you all discuss?

It depends on when the associate moved over, my equivalent class year I think is around c. 260 or so all in and a lot of pre MBA associates make around that. I’m likely paid a bit under market for my level but I’m OK with I due to lifestyle and “training” I’m getting. When carry hits (the next step) it is a significant movement of comp.

If you are coming over as a 6th or 7th year and clearing 400 and moving to a mid market fund not in NYC, that’s going to be much different.

Note that I’m not including perks like no fee or carry on coinvest (I’m aiming to have 6 figures committed by end of this year.

On exits, this will really depend on what valuations look like then. I will note we had 5 or so exits last quarter which may skew a bit as there aren’t that many companies “ready”.

Are there truly that many pre-MBA associates? My understanding was that only “stellar” analysts are promoted to associate without an MBA.

That pre-MBA associate salary is insane (especially if it doesn’t include the other “perks”).

It’s all in so includes base +bonus, doing an apples to apples comparison with biglaw base + bonus. My base compensation may never exceed seventh year associate base salary if I stay in this industry. 1st year PE all in comp tracks or is slightly higher than 1st year banking associate comp (note that PE comp is all over the board in lower middle market).

Note at 90% of firms until very recently the most junior investment professionals are associates who came in after a 2 year IBD or consulting stint.

I’m not totally sure where analysts (there are new PE analyst roles for superstar undergrads) being unrolled at most UMM/MF funds land comp wise but it’s likely competitive with stub biglaw associates.

Post MBA associates are where the massive culling happens.

Could you provide an all-in comp trajectory for someone in your position, including carry? (Just general numbers)

Also, do you think your hours will become more or less predictable at the VP and up levels?

PE salary is all over the place but for reference, my salary is currently around 140 with 100% target bonus but am not in NYC. This is a bit low for post MBA associates where range should be around 400+ cash at large funds.

Carry will be an extra 150-200 or so a year in the next step. So something along the lines of 300-400 cash +150-200 carry. Note that my firm dollarizes carry while many other firms give percentage points of carry. Carry usually has a vesting period of anywhere from 3-10 years.


I know of a couple post MBA associates getting around 600-700+ immediately after their MBA due to getting immediate carry.

[Johnnybgoode92]

I have the same typed of role as my peers but am a bit better at the legal stuff, I did not come in as a Vice President but started on the post -MBA track with a cohort of MBAs. Comp is ahead of where I’d be on the biglaw scale.

Thank you. Bolded is a little surprising to me; the sense I had always gotten was that PE guys had to take a bit of a hit for several years before blowing past the lawyers at VP or even a year or two later.

One more: what's your sense for how your firm will handle the election year. I've read articles about how everyone is going to hit pause on sale processes through Q2-Q3 but the counter is that everyone has too much money to put to work so it won't matter. I'm sure above both our pay grade, but wondering if something you all discuss?

It depends on when the associate moved over, my equivalent class year I think is around c. 260 or so all in and a lot of pre MBA associates make around that. I’m likely paid a bit under market for my level but I’m OK with I due to lifestyle and “training” I’m getting. When carry hits (the next step) it is a significant movement of comp.

If you are coming over as a 6th or 7th year and clearing 400 and moving to a mid market fund not in NYC, that’s going to be much different.

Note that I’m not including perks like no fee or carry on coinvest (I’m aiming to have 6 figures committed by end of this year.

On exits, this will really depend on what valuations look like then. I will note we had 5 or so exits last quarter which may skew a bit as there aren’t that many companies “ready”.

Are there truly that many pre-MBA associates? My understanding was that only “stellar” analysts are promoted to associate without an MBA.

That pre-MBA associate salary is insane (especially if it doesn’t include the other “perks”).

It’s all in so includes base +bonus, doing an apples to apples comparison with biglaw base + bonus. My base compensation may never exceed seventh year associate base salary if I stay in this industry. 1st year PE all in comp tracks or is slightly higher than 1st year banking associate comp (note that PE comp is all over the board in lower middle market).

Note at 90% of firms until very recently the most junior investment professionals are associates who came in after a 2 year IBD or consulting stint.

I’m not totally sure where analysts (there are new PE analyst roles for superstar undergrads) being unrolled at most UMM/MF funds land comp wise but it’s likely competitive with stub biglaw associates.

Post MBA associates are where the massive culling happens.

Could you provide an all-in comp trajectory for someone in your position, including carry? (Just general numbers)

Also, do you think your hours will become more or less predictable at the VP and up levels?

PE salary is all over the place but for reference, my salary is currently around 140 with 100% target bonus but am not in NYC. This is a bit low for post MBA associates where range should be around 400+ cash at large funds.

Carry will be an extra 150-200 or so a year in the next step. So something along the lines of 300-400 cash +150-200 carry. Note that my firm dollarizes carry while many other firms give percentage points of carry. Carry usually has a vesting period of anywhere from 3-10 years.


I know of a couple post MBA associates getting around 600-700+ immediately after their MBA due to getting immediate carry.

Congrats on your salary. You definitely made the right move financially! At what point in the finance trajectory do the earnings generally surpass law?

[Johnnybgoode92]

OP, thank you for an inspiring thread. You let TLS know they can potentially (even if highly highly unlikely) get a business side job with more predictable hours, better comp, no billables, and more interesting work (financial modeling>due diligence/form editing/checklists any day). But some questions could help myself and others here dissatisfied with legal work.

1. Is this move possible for a current 3L, can he or she skip big law life altogether and go straight into buy side finance, or even a non prestigious ibank?
2. What steps do you recommend said 3L take? Where can he or she learn modeling in an efficient and affordable manner?
3. Do you regret going to law school? Would you have rather gotten an MBA or done IBD and gone straight into PE?

Exact reason why I am happy to do an AMA like this - when I read TLS back in the early 2010s most threads noted that this was an impossible movw and I should be massmailimg or something instead of worrying about non-legal opportunities. Note the amount of true financial modeling you do as an IBD associate is pretty low to be honest and there's a lot of ppt deck creation.

1. For banking it's possible but you are kind of late, most banks locked everyone up in like October, check the MBA forums to confirm this. Buyside is still open but much much harder and you are setting yourself up for failure if you don't know how to model right now and want to take a buyside job starting after graduation. I'm assuming you are comfortable reneging on your biglaw offer and repaying barbri etc.
2. Start networking, possibly take CFA level 1 if you have no business undergrad, if you can do any sort of finance internship this semester, would be beneficial ("transactional lawyer, hungry to learn or something"). But as I noted before, you are very late so you will likely need to do a year or two in biglaw and then lateral as a banking associate.
3. I was a super splitter so law school was the only real option. Moving to IBD/Consulting was the goal from day one. If I had good grades, probably would have tried to do IBD -> PE or startups.

I turned down my big law offer. Honestly would rather learn a trade or be a cook or something in a real business than practice. What would you suggest for someone in my position? I have no hard quant skills (prestigious HS/undergrad but soft major), not a finance focused job history. I know it is all uphill and PE is almost certainly out of reach but any suggestions are appreciated!

[throwaway_]

OP, thank you for an inspiring thread. You let TLS know they can potentially (even if highly highly unlikely) get a business side job with more predictable hours, better comp, no billables, and more interesting work (financial modeling>due diligence/form editing/checklists any day). But some questions could help myself and others here dissatisfied with legal work.

1. Is this move possible for a current 3L, can he or she skip big law life altogether and go straight into buy side finance, or even a non prestigious ibank?
2. What steps do you recommend said 3L take? Where can he or she learn modeling in an efficient and affordable manner?
3. Do you regret going to law school? Would you have rather gotten an MBA or done IBD and gone straight into PE?

Exact reason why I am happy to do an AMA like this - when I read TLS back in the early 2010s most threads noted that this was an impossible movw and I should be massmailimg or something instead of worrying about non-legal opportunities. Note the amount of true financial modeling you do as an IBD associate is pretty low to be honest and there's a lot of ppt deck creation.

1. For banking it's possible but you are kind of late, most banks locked everyone up in like October, check the MBA forums to confirm this. Buyside is still open but much much harder and you are setting yourself up for failure if you don't know how to model right now and want to take a buyside job starting after graduation. I'm assuming you are comfortable reneging on your biglaw offer and repaying barbri etc.
2. Start networking, possibly take CFA level 1 if you have no business undergrad, if you can do any sort of finance internship this semester, would be beneficial ("transactional lawyer, hungry to learn or something"). But as I noted before, you are very late so you will likely need to do a year or two in biglaw and then lateral as a banking associate.
3. I was a super splitter so law school was the only real option. Moving to IBD/Consulting was the goal from day one. If I had good grades, probably would have tried to do IBD -> PE or startups.

I turned down my big law offer. Honestly would rather learn a trade or be a cook or something in a real business than practice. What would you suggest for someone in my position? I have no hard quant skills (prestigious HS/undergrad but soft major), not a finance focused job history. I know it is all uphill and PE is almost certainly out of reach but any suggestions are appreciated!

MBB

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for doing this. When you say you were doing private equity law, do you m&a and/or acquisition finance type deal work or fund formation? Were you at an elite PE law firm (simpson or Kirkland etc)? How did you sell your legal experience?

Bump. If you don’t mind answering, I’d really appreciate it.

Accidental anon.