2L - Seriously Considering Dropping Out Forum

[Anonymous User]

Hi all,

I am in a rather stressful position. I am a 2L at a lower T14, which I transferred into from a T1 where I had a full ride. I know, I was stupid for doing so. I did this because I thought I would easily land an SA job in my preferred secondary market at OCI. That did not happen. Now I am looking at 270k+ in debt if I go all the way through, and I am not even 100% that I want to be a lawyer. I have done well with classes and enjoy legal writing, but I have doubts if I will enjoy practice.

I was a KJD, with only 3 summer internships doing paralegal type work at law firms prior to going to law school. Should I stay the course and keep going, hoping I get something? Am I screwed if I drop out? I really am unsure what to do. I would tremendously appreciate any advice.

[acr]

Hi all,

I am in a rather stressful position. I am a 2L at a lower T14, which I transferred into from a T1 where I had a full ride. I know, I was stupid for doing so. I did this because I thought I would easily land an SA job in my preferred secondary market at OCI. That did not happen. Now I am looking at 270k+ in debt if I go all the way through, and I am not even 100% that I want to be a lawyer. I have done well with classes and enjoy legal writing, but I have doubts if I will enjoy practice.

I was a KJD, with only 3 summer internships doing paralegal type work at law firms prior to going to law school. Should I stay the course and keep going, hoping I get something? Am I screwed if I drop out? I really am unsure what to do. I would tremendously appreciate any advice.

Your mistake was, it sounds like, focusing on your preferred secondary market at OCI rather than casting a wide net. Have you mass-mailed NYC? That's probably your best bet at rectifying this and landing something at a big firm, although it's definitely late and the odds are slim at this stage. But you never know. If I were in your shoes, I would spend the remainder of my time over Christmas break email blasting the shit out of NYC firms to see if you get any bites, as well as tactfully applying to openings in mid-law and regional big law where you have alumni connections.

Staring down the barrel of a massive debt-load like 270k without big law lined up can be very scary, and you need to get your head straight before making any drastic moves. To me, personally, the decision would come down to your interest in practicing law. The question I would be asking myself is: Do I really want to be a lawyer? If the answer is yes, then it makes more sense to stay in law school, assume the debt, and figure out your options. T14's have tremendous resources and I find it hard to believe that a targeted approach over the next year and a half, working in conjunction with your CSO, networking your ass off, etc., wouldn't result in some kind of employment as a lawyer.

If you don't want to be a lawyer, then staying in law school doesn't make sense. This is generic and applies to anyone. You would be enslaving yourself to a profession/work that there's a good chance you won't like to make payments on a big loan. Only you can decide whether the substance of practicing law--being a lawyer--is worth $270K to you, and that's something that you'll arrive at through personal reflection.

I will tell you that dropping out/pursuing a different path isn't the end of the world, or as "radical" as it may seem to you (or, more likely, your family). Although I didn't drop out, I have a similar experience and would be happy to chat over PM about how I navigated through it.

[wishywashy]

I would hang in there. I went from a half scholarship to full tuition at a lower t14. I ended up getting a V5 job 3L with a great NYC firm. I was striking out hard in my secondary market of choice. Refocus to NYC and things will get better. The specialty groups seem to be dying for bodies (finance, executive comp, fund formation) plus a smattering if general corporate and banking gigs - all these pop up in 3L.

With income based repayment you won’t see a huge difference between one extra year or not because it’s capped at a portion of your disposable income (assuming worst case scenario where you get no legal or JD advantage job). The tax hit would hurt but go run the income based repayment calculator on $50 or $60k a year and it is not life ending (will make buying a home tough).

The point is you are almost done and you have a fair amount of debt anyways. Stick out the last year and get the degree. Expand to NYC and paper every firm with your resume hustle like you have $300k riding on it.

You can always fall back on IBR option. I have seen people at my t14 stress and stress about a job and then boom 3L they get one. If you leave without a degree you’ll be leaning on IBR anyways - with a degree at least you have a shot to do law.

My vote is stick it out. Apply all over the v100 in NYC. I never even summered in biglaw and got v5. Don’t give up.

[wishywashy]

Also, with great respect to the person that commented before me, I don’t see how you could know - really know - you don’t want to be a lawyer without trying it. I can think as hard as I want and still have no clue what my life will really be like day to day as a lawyer or a doctor or a garbage truck driver or a union plumber (everything in this list can be 100k+ jobs in the right city).

It is one thing to do the mental exercise of “does this interest me” before law school. When you’re $270k in debt, stressed out, and feeling lost I am not sure that is the frame of mind to make a huge course correction in. Lean on the decision you made with a clearer head (I assume) in undergrad. I know many lawyers who went to law school because they didn’t know what else to do and they love their job, I know some who were 100% sure they wanted to be a lawyer and they hate it, I know others who hated it then switched practice areas or firms and now they love it.

I think you’re better off with a JD in hand and 1 more year of debt than $270k in the hole with only a bachelors degree. Stick it out and I think you’ll be better off - even if you ultimately leave law (that JD does have some value to it all by itself with some employers).

Stay positive. The job hunt sucks because it is so all or nothing. No after no after no really drains you but you only need one yes. When you get that one yes you go from “oh my god what have I done” to “holy crap this is my best decision ever” with amazing speed.

Rooting for you!

[Anonymous User]

I had a good friend / classmate at Iowa (in-state, so about $20k tuition a year) who had the same dilemma during first semester of his 2L year.

He decided to stick it out and regrets it horribly. He now works in a factory and makes just a little over minimum wage (not that I think that would be your situation at all, but just an extreme example). He's much happier, but he has law school debt, which is going to be a millstone about his neck for a long time. He was not able to pay much of it off, because he worked in a small market for 18 months before giving up the practice of law. He still has a law degree and is barred in a midwest state, but the law degree isn't helping him, it may even be hurting because he is overqualified. He has trouble finding any type of job, but he's also not particularly motivated, if I'm being honest.

I'm not convinced that a law degree opens many JD-preferred doors, but maybe that's not true if you have a T14 pedigree or a couple years as a biglaw junior associate. My background is in criminal law and some civil litigation, but I've had a hell of a time getting interviews for non-law jobs (HR, compliance, investigations, etc.). I am seven years out of school now, degree from Iowa, top half, no connections, no journal, maybe a dozen jury trials and several hundred bench trials. My situation is very different from yours, and likely much less flexible.

I think one distinguishing factor between your situation and mine / my friend's is that you'll have a T14 degree if you stay with it. And also T14 debt. Personally, if I was in your situation, I'd finish law school if I thought I could land a biglaw job, pay off my debt within 2-3 years, and then start looking to move into something non-law related or only slightly law related (HR for example has a law of former attorneys). I'd focus on finding a job/market you like and tolerating the law school / new lawyer journey. It's easier to explain that you got tired of lawyering after a year than it is to explain dropping out I think. As others have said, you may very well enjoy being a practicing lawyer much more than you like law school. That was true for me anyway. I definitely disliked law school but love being a lawyer most days.

Good luck. You still have some decent options I think.

[Anonymous User]

I was in a similar mindset my 2L year. I didn’t transfer, but my gpa tanked and I had nothing lined up. I considered dropping out and cutting my losses. At that point, I didn’t even want to practice law.

I stuck with it, though, because 1) explaining that going to law school is a mistake to potential employers would be a headache, and 2) with my degree, I’d have a hard time finding jobs.

I was a poli sci major that wanted to work in transactional work and that was difficult. I put out feelers and was rejected everywhere. I graduated from a top school with above average grades (~3.7), but employers weren’t interested.

Even though I thought I no longer wanted to “practice law,” I’ve come to realize that a lot of corporate/transactional law is project management, which I enjoy. And I like code- based law, which you don’t really get exposed to until you take your electives.

I would stick it out. I’m glad I did. I was able to get my grades up and received offers from places that didn’t even consider me the year before.

I understand that $270k is a lot of money, but you’re at a T14 and you probably have a high likelihood of landing a biglaw job if you keep your grades up.

Honestly, unless your “secondary” market is like Philly/Boston/Miami (or other cities with a decent sized legal market), I would mass mail NY now (both small and large firms) and hope for the best.

[Anonymous User]

Apply to business school jobs. If you go to a T14, your business school is good enough to get you looks at say Accenture and F500s.

If you are thinking about dropping out, b school jobs will pay more than what you’d get alternatively.

I did this and got offers just over 6 figures from good firms.